Someone screwed up big time

[Gunny]

You are the one who took it off topic with your insult, not I I simply responded. Try getting your head on straight

Keep on doing nothing but trolling and not addressing any issues, asshat. It's nice around here without you.

 

[Gunny]

Gunny read the article. If the private was acting as the article says he was there IS no doubt. The Platoon leaders should have known what was coming. He wasn't shaving, he wasn't bathing, he was sleeping on the floor, he PUT HIS WEAPON to his mouth and head numerous times. He changed from being a good soldier to being a problem in a short time.

I don't know when you got out, but those are all classic signs of a real problem, something that is drilled into leaders at all levels heads now. The Doctor was an idiot and the platoon leaders should have KNOWN better then to give that man his weapon back.

Just because he never said " I am suicidal" to the Doctor the doctor ignored all his training. IF he didn't have the facts, that again falls back on the Platoon leaders.

Nothing criminal should be done, but damn it those leaders failed and cost a life. They should have something put in their record about said failure. The Doctor should be checked for competence.

Come on, he sent a suicide goodbye to his MOTHER and all the unit did is say, "well gee, he is still alive and didn't shot himself yet" Absolute failure of his platoon leadership.

I went through all the same suicide prevention training you did. I'm not arguing that those are all classic signs. While those signs are there for us as leaders to be wary of, they are also listed in order for anyone who wants to try and scam out.

You say the doctor was an idiot; which, I don't disagree with, but since when were platoon leaders allowed to override a doc's recommendations? You and I both know doing so is at the peril of one's career.

In that position, I would have done as the MSgt said and got another opinion and I'd have pulled his ass off the line until that opinion was rendered.

But I'm saying that without having boots on the ground in theater. What's the CO's SOP? For that matter, how does the Army handle the topic? We're a bunch of jarheads and a squid discussing the issue. What kind of trouble are they having with slackers faking (insert favorite disqualifying behavior/illness)?

THAT is my point. I want to see everything before I go hanging people out to dry, but hang them out to dry I will if the facts and evidence warrants such ... in a heartbeat.

 

[doniston]

Keep on doing nothing but trolling and not addressing any issues, asshat. It's nice around here without you.

I suggest you wear your own hat and don't try to pawn it off on me. When I disagree with you on an issue, I AM addressing the issue, or don't you know that?

 

[Gunny]

I suggest you wear your own hat and don't try to pawn it off on me. When I disagree with you on an issue, I AM addressing the issue, or don't you know that?

You need to learn the difference between disagreeing with a stance on an issue and a personal attack. Obviously, you do not. You no more have addressed this issue than you can grow hair on top of your head.

 

[CSM]

I went through all the same suicide prevention training you did. I'm not arguing that those are all classic signs. While those signs are there for us as leaders to be wary of, they are also listed in order for anyone who wants to try and scam out.

You say the doctor was an idiot; which, I don't disagree with, but since when were platoon leaders allowed to override a doc's recommendations? You and I both know doing so is at the peril of one's career.

In that position, I would have done as the MSgt said and got another opinion and I'd have pulled his ass off the line until that opinion was rendered.

But I'm saying that without having boots on the ground in theater. What's the CO's SOP? For that matter, how does the Army handle the topic? We're a bunch of jarheads and a squid discussing the issue. What kind of trouble are they having with slackers faking (insert favorite disqualifying behavior/illness)?

THAT is my point. I want to see everything before I go hanging people out to dry, but hang them out to dry I will if the facts and evidence warrants such ... in a heartbeat.

All I can say is that the Army does indeed conduct suicide prevention training regularly. I can also state that, in my opinion, the chain of command screwed up. It is my experience that in such cases, the medical evaluation does carry a lot of weight; however, I have got to believe we are not hearing the whole story. I have no doubt that the shrink said he was capable of faking...but I am willing to bet a nickel to a donut that he also said the kid should be watched and treated very carefully....which would imply that the CoC screwed up too.

 

[Gunny]

All I can say is that the Army does indeed conduct suicide prevention training regularly. I can also state that, in my opinion, the chain of command screwed up. It is my experience that in such cases, the medical evaluation does carry a lot of weight; however, I have got to believe we are not hearing the whole story. I have no doubt that the shrink said he was capable of faking...but I am willing to bet a nickel to a donut that he also said the kid should be watched and treated very carefully....which would imply that the CoC screwed up too.

That's what I've been saying, as fr as hearing the whole story. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I just like to see all the facts before the hanging.

 

[CSM]

That's what I've been saying, as fr as hearing the whole story. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I just like to see all the facts before the hanging.

Yup....I have a serious mistrust of the media as it is and since I have not seen the results of an investigation it is difficult for me to assess the situation. There have been many times in my career when I had to put the brakes on the CoC when they wanted to rush to judge before all the facts are in. I can just imagine there is much like that going on here as well.

 

[Gunny]

Yup....I have a serious mistrust of the media as it is and since I have not seen the results of an investigation it is difficult for me to assess the situation. There have been many times in my career when I had to put the brakes on the CoC when they wanted to rush to judge before all the facts are in. I can just imagine there is much like that going on here as well.

The one-sidedness, IMO, of the article is what led me to question anything to begin with. The media does nto necessarily present the facts, it presents what it wants you to see.

I have NO problem with some letters of reprimand/censure/loss of numbers if warranted.

 

[CSM]

the fact that a young soldier has taken his own life would certainly indicate that something went wrong someplace. What the article does not say is whether or not that soldier's NCOs tried to get him further help or whether or not the CoC tried to get a second opinion. It is possible that the First Sergeant may have been callous or negligent...but then again he may not have been.

I find it rather disturbing that a soldier with obvious emotional and mental problems would not be closely monitored and supervised....

 

[doniston]

kettle pot black Like I said, try wearing your own hat It fits YOU much better.

Ever since I came on board, yopu have been making snide remarks to posters when you didn't agree with them. Recently you have concentrated your efforts on me, and that is good. You are leaving most of the other people alone. In this particular instance. You attacked me after I disagreed with you. And you are simply too arrogant to realize you are doing so. In short, a "KINGLY JACKASS"

Further you Jackass, This issue was about who was to blame. There was no doubt the doctor was to blame, but you determined there was an "IF" involved. Not one other poster on this thread agreed with you. There was no " IF" and I pointed it out. and whether you agree or not. that WAS addressing the issue. You took it only as an insult.

 

[Gunny]

kettle pot black Like I said, try wearing your own hat It fits YOU much better.

Ever since I came on board, yopu have been making snide remarks to posters when you didn't agree with them. Recently you have concentrated your efforts on me, and that is good. You are leaving most of the other people alone. In this particular instance. You attacked me after I disagreed with you. And you are simply too arrogant to realize you are doing so. In short, a "KINGLY JACKASS"

Are you capable of rational thought? There's no kettle and pot here. I'm adressing the issue, you are addressing me.

Your version of history is about as accurate as your ability to differentiate between the topic and me. I never have "bothered" people who weren't standing in front of me waving a red flag that says "Pay Attention to ME!" like you.

I was whoopin on your sorry ass LONG before I was ever anything more than a member on this board. I realize your alcohol-fogged brain might not recall your first run on this board, but it ended badly for you, with you finally running away, so stuff it old man.

There are members on this board who have called me evey name in the book, and they're STILL here, haven't been banned, nor so much as gotten negative rep from me.

Maybe it's because they can differentiate between engaging in an argument and continually questioning the rules and those that enforce them. Nah ... that COULDN'T be it. Too simple.

 

[doniston]

Are you capable of rational thought? There's no kettle and pot here. I'm adressing the issue, you are addressing me.

Your version of history is about as accurate as your ability to differentiate between the topic and me. I never have "bothered" people who weren't standing in front of me waving a red flag that says "Pay Attention to ME!" like you.

I was whoopin on your sorry ass LONG before I was ever anything more than a member on this board. I realize your alcohol-fogged brain might not recall your first run on this board, but it ended badly for you, with you finally running away, so stuff it old man.

There are members on this board who have called me evey name in the book, and they're STILL here, haven't been banned, nor so much as gotten negative rep from me.

Maybe it's because they can differentiate between engaging in an argument and continually questioning the rules and those that enforce them. Nah ... that COULDN'T be it. Too simple.

Your ramblings are getting too idiotic to comment upon. BYE!

 

[trobinett]

Your ramblings are getting too idiotic to comment upon. BYE!

Well, YOUR ramblings aren't.

YOU really do need to step away from the computer, and take a deep breath.

Your making a fool out of yourself, and mucking up some pretty good threads, even ones that YOU started.

GunnyL is here for you doniston, but not here for you to follow him around, and TRY and give him shit, which by the way, you couldn't give shit to a turd laying in a ditch. So lighten the fuck up man.

Personally, I think you could bring something to the board, but at this point, all I want is for you to go away.

Merry Xmas..............

 

[doniston]

Well, YOUR ramblings aren't.

YOU really do need to step away from the computer, and take a deep breath.

Your making a fool out of yourself, and mucking up some pretty good threads, even ones that YOU started.

GunnyL is here for you doniston, but not here for you to follow him around, and TRY and give him shit, which by the way, you couldn't give shit to a turd laying in a ditch. So lighten the fuck up man.

Personally, I think you could bring something to the board, but at this point, all I want is for you to go away.

Merry Xmas..............

Another asshole speaks his peice, and your analogies make no sense at all.

 

[steeliniraq]

Yup I was getting out in 95, BUT at least 5 years before that the Marine Corps was hot and heavy into suicide prevention training. No way the Army was not also.

That First Sgt is an idiot. The Platoon Sgt sounds like he was untrained and we have no comments from his squad leader. If the troops saw it there is no way the platoon leaders did not. Classic case of depression, and depression in those conditions with access to a loaded firearm is moronic. Basic leadership training.

He wasn't shaving, he wasn't bathing, he wasn't changing cloths, he was not acting as he had previously, he voiced doubts, he put his damn gun to his head and mouth in front of others. HE ask to see a health care provider. He sent a suicide good bye to his MOTHER.

These people screwed up beyond belief. And they know it or they would not have been so short on the information to his family.

Having been a leader of troops, there is a HUGE difference between a shit bird and the actions so easily observed by this private. His Command failed and in a major way.

Im in the Army and as a leader that really is not how we are trained. Complete break-down in leadership on this one. I understand that sometimes it is hard for a squad and platoon leader to stand up for a soldier that is having problems and is a shit bird in the eyes of the 1SG but as a leader you need to know when and HOW to stand up for your troops!! I don't think any of the "leaders" performed up to standard on this one and now they will pay the price.