Someone explain to me

[JBeukema]

how privatized elections aren't a sure sign that we're living in a fascist nation.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Diebold, Sequoia, and ES&S mean anything to y'all?

 

[snjmom]

We used a touch screen with a paper trail. I'm not overtly concerned.

 

[JBeukema]

Did you check the paper? How many were destroyed in your district?

 

[goldcatt]

Those names mean something to me, but how exactly does that mean the election itself is privatized? The companies don't run the polls, or determine who gets on the ballots. Nor do we have a monopoly on the manufacture, distribution and sale of the machines.

I'm more concerned about the partisan control of elections than the private manufacture of the machines, myself. Having what amounts to private clubs dictate the terms of publicly held and funded elections bothers me.

 

[snjmom]

I checked the paper. My town has two congressional districts and a major brouhaha over people in wheelchairs not having access to the polls, enormous lines, etc so I'm pretty sure any destruction of voting rolls would have got some play in the local news and so far, nothing.

Not that paranoia isn't a survival advantage.

 

[JBeukema]

Those names mean something to me, but how exactly does that mean the election itself is privatized? The companies don't run the polls, or determine who gets on the ballots. Nor do we have a monopoly on the manufacture, distribution and sale of the machines.

Three companies, all with close ties to one party, account for 80+% of all the votes.

Their machines only had 'technical malfunctions' in significant numbers in districts of the other party.

They set up the machines, collect the votes, count the votes, and declare the winners with no meaningful oversight.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Loser-Take-All-Subversion-Democracy/dp/0978843142]Amazon.com: Loser Take All: Election Fraud and The Subversion of Democracy, 2000 - 2008 (9780978843144): Mark Crispin Miller: Books[/ame]

I'm more concerned about the partisan control of elections than the private manufacture of the machines

Same thing, not that there's really any difference between the two major parties.

 

[goldcatt]

Healthy suspicion is a good thing when it comes to elections, paranoia isn't really reaonable.

But I'm an election judge, it's my job to help load and test those machines. If they're miscounting, we'll find it. I used to be an inspector, which means I have in my personal possession copies of all the paper trails from every machine in every election in my ward until the required number of years elapses. As long as the poll workers and election commissioners are doing their jobs, it's hard to sneak a bad machine past them.

"As long as" is the key question, of course. But most of the folks I've worked with take it seriously.

 

[JBeukema]

Security experts proved the machines can be tricked with post-it notes and you can upload a program to rig the election that will delete itself and remain undetectable- without any special tools and without it being apparent the machine has been tampered with.

Now why do you think politicians in power want to give their preferred companies the contracts for the elections?

 

[JBeukema]

If they're miscounting, we'll find it.

National security experts disagree.

As long as the poll workers and election commissioners are doing their jobs, it's hard to sneak a bad machine past them.

No, it's not. It's as easy as changing out a memory card or installing another 0808 patch- or simply programming it to cheat in the first place.

 

[JBeukema]

Black Box Voting : 12-13-05: Devastating hack proven - Leon County dumps Diebold

Want To Know Just How Bad Security Is For E-Voting Machines? | Techdirt

Want To Know Just How Bad Security Is For E-Voting Machines? | Techdirt

 

[JBeukema]

Voting machine fails inspection - CNET News

University researchers delivered a serious blow to the current crop of electronic voting systems in an analysis of one such system's source code in which they concluded that a voter could cast unlimited ballots without detection.

Read more: Voting machine fails inspection - CNET News​

 

[snjmom]

Can I use that post-it trick on an ATM machine?

 

[goldcatt]

Can I use that post-it trick on an ATM machine?

Ooooh, good question!

 

[JBeukema]

Can I use that post-it trick on an ATM machine?

National security experts agree that the corner ATM is more secure that the machines that gave the presidency to Bush in Florida and Ohio when he actually lost.

 

[rikules]

how privatized elections aren't a sure sign that we're living in a fascist nation.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Diebold, Sequoia, and ES&S mean anything to y'all?

haven't corporations been controlling politics in America for over a hundred years?

 

[The T]

If they're miscounting, we'll find it.

National security experts disagree.

As long as the poll workers and election commissioners are doing their jobs, it's hard to sneak a bad machine past them.

No, it's not. It's as easy as changing out a memory card or installing another 0808 patch- or simply programming it to cheat in the first place.

So? May I ask? Are these machines, and those that handle them BONDED? Insured?

 

[Charles_Main]

Can I use that post-it trick on an ATM machine?

National security experts agree that the corner ATM is more secure that the machines that gave the presidency to Bush in Florida and Ohio when he actually lost.

yet somehow those same machines allowed Obama to win

 

[JBeukema]

You can only rig the election if it's predicted to be close enough, and only to within a certain range, just outside the margin of error and not so as to mandate a recount- unless you can get SCOTUS to prevent the hand count that would reverse the result.

Also, most methods for effecting the election at the national level must be put into place some time before election day, making it difficult to react to late-breaking news. Hence Bush's 'thumpin'.


Also, I've never recognized any meaningful difference between the Democratic and Republican factions.


Read the aforementioned anthology and studies.

 

[boedicca]

JB's concern would be better spent on the increasingly rampant voter fraud ever since Motor Voter was enacted.

 

[JBeukema]

There is far more evidence of election fraud than there ever was of any great degree of voter fraud.

See all the aforementioned sources.

It has been proven that Bush lost in Florida. The only full count of all ballots proved that beyond any possible doubt or question.