Some Thoughts On War From Ron Kovic

[jillian]

Initially, no I don't think it was his primary motivation. Recently, yes I do think so. I can tell you that for some severely wounded, part of the recovery therapy was (and sometimes still is) to write out the individuals feelings. A few managed or desired to publish said writings. I can only speak of one instance with knowledge but in looking back on some of the things written at the time, they sure don't reflect the feelings now.

I think everyone has to deal with their experiences in that regard, each in his own way. The man who actually introduced me to the book Born On The Fourth of July, and whom I met in the early '90's, was a vet who coped by becoming very active and outspoken. He was one of the people who worked very hard to get a parade for the Vietnam Vets in NYC in the mid to late '80's (I forget exactly when it was). He also read everything he could on the subject (one of his letters actually made it into "Dear America: Letters Home From Vietnam") and kept an extensive bibliography of books on the war which he was kind enough to lend me. He also thought very highly of Kovic, which, given my regard for this person, was enough for me.

I can't speak to Kovic's motivations today and, again, I don't agree that there is never a reason to fight, but I think his is a valuable voice.

 

[CSM]

I think everyone has to deal with their experiences in that regard, each in his own way. The man who actually introduced me to the book Born On The Fourth of July, and whom I met in the early '90's, was a vet who coped by becoming very active and outspoken. He was one of the people who worked very hard to get a parade for the Vietnam Vets in NYC in the mid to late '80's (I forget exactly when it was). He also read everything he could on the subject (one of his letters actually made it into "Dear America: Letters Home From Vietnam") and kept an extensive bibliography of books on the war which he was kind enough to lend me. He also thought very highly of Kovic, which, given my regard for this person, was enough for me.

I can't speak to Kovic's motivations today and, again, I don't agree that there is never a reason to fight, but I think his is a valuable voice.

I understand. I have heard Kovic speak and read his work. I personally do not agree (obviously) with a lot of what he says. On the other hand, I do not espouse sending troops to the slaughter either.

Obviously, there is no way we can determine Kovic's true motivations for anything. I guess only he will ever know. My thoughts are pure speculatiuon but not unreasonable, methinks.

 

[jillian]

I understand. I have heard Kovic speak and read his work. I personally do not agree (obviously) with a lot of what he says. On the other hand, I do not espouse sending troops to the slaughter either.

Obviously, there is no way we can determine Kovic's true motivations for anything. I guess only he will ever know. My thoughts are pure speculatiuon but not unreasonable, methinks.

Fair enough. Wouldn't it be nice, though, if when our troops are sent into harm's way government actually gave a thought to the value of the individual lives at stake? I don't think that ever goes into the mix.

Anyway, back to work for me *sigh*... thanks for the interesting discussion.

 

[jasendorf]

That right there tells me the author is clueless.

For someone not even born during Vietnam, it sure seems rather elitist of you to make such a claim against someone who served in Vietnam. I think I'll choose the wisdom of his experience over your guesses.

 

[dmp]

For someone not even born during Vietnam, it sure seems rather elitist of you to make such a claim against someone who served in Vietnam. I think I'll choose the wisdom of his experience over your guesses.

Elitist? Wha? Do you even know how to USE that word in a sentence? Please explain how "elitist" fits in the context of your sentence. Here's how Dictionary.com defines the word:

1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2. 1. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
2. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

You use Elitist as a response to me stating that guy doesn't have a clue? How does that guy not have a clue mean I feel Class-rule is a good thing?

You honestly don't have a clue, n00b. This isn't about Viet Nam. It's about that guy trying to say Iraq war = Viet Nam. There are so few similarities that making such a comparison is intellectually dishonest.

For a guy who was never IN Iraq NOR Viet Nam I'll choose just about anyone else's reply in this thread over yours.

Or whatever.

Welcome to the board.

 

[jasendorf]

You must keep in mind that Mr. Kovic is/was trying to sell a book/movie. He has been selling the same book/movie for decades...sensationalism and shock words are a necessity!

Is that how you feel about all war-based fiction and non-fiction? Or, just those that have an ending which sounds like "man, war sucks"? I have to wonder if you feel the same way about the book "Band of Brothers?" I paid $15 for the book and almost $90 for the full DVDs tin collectors set... should I assume that the only motive for it was the author trying to make a buck? Perhaps only those war memoirs which are given away for free should be considered truthful?

I have a feeling that warriors of all sorts come away from war with different experiences and different viewpoints. My uncle, who served two tours in a SRAP unit in Vietnam (and a tour in Korea prior to going to Vietnam and a tour training Rangers in the States after coming home wounded) feels the current war has many of the same overtones as Vietnam... then again he also sees the parallels between 9/11 and the burning of the Reichstag and parallels between Iraq and the Philippines ca. 1902. If he were to suddenly put this into a book with a price on the cover would that automatically make his POV a POS?

 

[jasendorf]

You honestly don't have a clue, n00b.

Oh, sorry about that... maybe THIS was where I should have waited to use "elitist"...

And, you're right, I've been lucky not to be deployed to Iraq. Although I think my almost 18 years (so far) as an Army Reservist gives me a tiny bit of insight into what's going on. I think most people think of Vietnam as 1969 and nothing else. If Iraq and Vietnam share parallels, this would be 1964... we still need a definitive Diem.


And, really, a dictionary.com reply? Is that what goes for reasoned debate here? Very sad if so. So unoriginal, so uninspired, so mundane, so pedestrian. Time to read Cyrano De Bergerac again.

 

[CSM]

Is that how you feel about all war-based fiction and non-fiction? Or, just those that have an ending which sounds like "man, war sucks"? I have to wonder if you feel the same way about the book "Band of Brothers?" I paid $15 for the book and almost $90 for the full DVDs tin collectors set... should I assume that the only motive for it was the author trying to make a buck? Perhaps only those war memoirs which are given away for free should be considered truthful?

I have a feeling that warriors of all sorts come away from war with different experiences and different viewpoints. My uncle, who served two tours in a SRAP unit in Vietnam (and a tour in Korea prior to going to Vietnam and a tour training Rangers in the States after coming home wounded) feels the current war has many of the same overtones as Vietnam... then again he also sees the parallels between 9/11 and the burning of the Reichstag and parallels between Iraq and the Philippines ca. 1902. If he were to suddenly put this into a book with a price on the cover would that automatically make his POV a POS?

Let me guess...you think all the profits from BoB went to charity. I did not say that his Kovic's only motive was money and even frankly stated that we cannot possibly know his true motives. I also stated that there are parallels between any two wars you choose to examine; I believe (whether you like it or not) that people write books so they can sell them....though that may not be the ONLY reason they write them.

I know for a FACT that warriors come away from wars with different perspectives and different experiences.

For the new guy on the board, you are making some huge leaps. Keep it up and I will begin to think you are a troll!

 

[CSM]

Oh, sorry about that... maybe THIS was where I should have waited to use "elitist"...

And, you're right, I've been lucky not to be deployed to Iraq. Although I think my almost 18 years (so far) as an Army Reservist gives me a tiny bit of insight into what's going on. I think most people think of Vietnam as 1969 and nothing else. If Iraq and Vietnam share parallels, this would be 1964... we still need a definitive Diem.


And, really, a dictionary.com reply? Is that what goes for reasoned debate here? Very sad if so. So unoriginal, so uninspired, so mundane, so pedestrian. Time to read Cyrano De Bergerac again.

Ok, now I know you are a troll...18 years as an Army reservist at thirty four years old......you should have studied basic math a bit closer.

 

[Said1]

For the new guy on the board, you are making some huge leaps. Keep it up and I will begin to think you are a troll!

D, an elitist. Best one I've heard all week.

 

[Said1]

Ok, now I know you are a troll...18 years as an Army reservist at thirty four years old......you should have studied basic math a bit closer.

Do Cadettes count?

 

[jasendorf]

Ok, now I know you are a troll...18 years as an Army reservist at thirty four years old......you should have studied basic math a bit closer.

Perhaps you should study your math a bit closer.

Born: July 19, 1971
PEBD: Sept 28, 1988

This Sept. will mark the end of my 18th year.

Now, if you'd like an email from my AKO account or perhaps want to check my name yourself... feel free. Log onto AKO, do a white pages search for the last name Asendorf.

Once we get past this little issue, perhaps you'd like to discuss the issue at hand instead of attempting to smear me?

 

[CSM]

Do Cadettes count?

Nope. Junior ROTC doesn't mean Reservist.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Perhaps you should study your math a bit closer.

Born: July 19, 1971
PEBD: Sept 28, 1988

This Sept. will mark the end of my 18th year.

Now, if you'd like an email from my AKO account or perhaps want to check my name yourself... feel free. Log onto AKO, do a white pages search for the last name Asendorf.

Once we get past this little issue, perhaps you'd like to discuss the issue at hand instead of attempting to smear me?

Dude. Don't put all this info on here. For the most part we're normal, but some psycho may end up hating you for some reason or another. There are a lot of weirdos on the internet.

 

[jasendorf]

Wow... three supposedly intelligent posters (at least that's what I assumed when I decided to join this board this morning) all of whom have no response to reasoned debate other than... "you're a n00b" and "you're a troll"...

CSM, you discounted Kovic's book because he sells it. I simply want to know if you similarly discount all war literature in this manner or if you have some kind of sliding scale where a book by Oliver North is second only to the Gospel where something by Ron Kovic is nothing more than a meaningless money-grubbing scheme.

And dmp... we all listen to Sean Hannity, we don't need for you to recount his stance on whether Iraq and Vietnam share any similarities.

 

[5stringJeff]

Perhaps you should study your math a bit closer.

Born: July 19, 1971
PEBD: Sept 28, 1988

This Sept. will mark the end of my 18th year.

Now, if you'd like an email from my AKO account or perhaps want to check my name yourself... feel free. Log onto AKO, do a white pages search for the last name Asendorf.

Once we get past this little issue, perhaps you'd like to discuss the issue at hand instead of attempting to smear me?

What instrument do you play?

 

[jasendorf]

Dude. Don't put all this info on here. For the most part we're normal, but some psycho may end up hating you for some reason or another. There are a lot of weirdos on the internet.

I'm already pretty exposed throughout the internet... I'm not going to start worrying about it today. But, thank you for well-meaning advice.

 

[dmp]

Oh, sorry about that... maybe THIS was where I should have waited to use "elitist"...

And, you're right, I've been lucky not to be deployed to Iraq. Although I think my almost 18 years (so far) as an Army Reservist gives me a tiny bit of insight into what's going on. I think most people think of Vietnam as 1969 and nothing else. If Iraq and Vietnam share parallels, this would be 1964... we still need a definitive Diem.


And, really, a dictionary.com reply? Is that what goes for reasoned debate here? Very sad if so. So unoriginal, so uninspired, so mundane, so pedestrian. Time to read Cyrano De Bergerac again.

Again - Look kid; You hunger and thirst to use "elitist" - FINE! Just PLEASE for the love of god use it where it makes sense. Please.

There's NO good comparison of Iraq and Viet Nam. I'd hope ANYONE with a modicum of sense could see that. Do you have a modicum of sense?

Please - start a thread and explain to me how YOU mis-using 'Elitist', then me "Defining" the word for you is sad?

You wanna see unoriginal? Keep pushing. We don't much care for newbies who join this board and come in here on a proverbial white horse; Braging and snorting and accusing. Drop your ego, and TRY to get along. If you're an asshole, just go away now and save me the trouble of banning you.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Wow... three supposedly intelligent posters (at least that's what I assumed when I decided to join this board this morning) all of whom have no response to reasoned debate other than... "you're a n00b" and "you're a troll"...

CSM, you discounted Kovic's book because he sells it. I simply want to know if you similarly discount all war literature in this manner or if you have some kind of sliding scale where a book by Oliver North is second only to the Gospel where something by Ron Kovic is nothing more than a meaningless money-grubbing scheme.

And dmp... we all listen to Sean Hannity, we don't need for you to recount his stance on whether Iraq and Vietnam share any similarities.

He's a perky one. Who wants to hit it first?

 

[Said1]

Wow... three supposedly intelligent posters (at least that's what I assumed when I decided to join this board this morning) all of whom have no response to reasoned debate other than... "you're a n00b" and "you're a troll"...

CSM, you discounted Kovic's book because he sells it. I simply want to know if you similarly discount all war literature in this manner or if you have some kind of sliding scale where a book by Oliver North is second only to the Gospel where something by Ron Kovic is nothing more than a meaningless money-grubbing scheme.

And dmp... we all listen to Sean Hannity, we don't need for you to recount his stance on whether Iraq and Vietnam share any similarities.

Who are the three? I'm one of them, right? Right?


There are also lots of vets on this board, DMP included.