Some People Want The Confederate Flag To Stay

[GotZoom]

Man with rebel flag seeks to fix `injustice'
2005-07-01
by Darren Dunlap
of The Daily Times Staff

Today H.K. Edgerton, a black man from Asheville, N.C., will walk into Maryville with a Confederate flag and a hope for ``dialogue.''

He'll stop at the Blount County Courthouse, at about 1 p.m., to get his message out, one that he hopes will bring blacks and whites together, rather than divide people.

He walked this week from Johnson City and has experienced both affection and anger from people he's met on the road.

``This is not about a longevity trip, not like it was when I walked to Texas. This is more about coming to Maryville to try to change ... a social injustice,'' Edgerton said Thursday. ``The city of Maryville epitomizes the cultural genocide that is taking place in the South, and continuation of trying to divide and separate blacks folks from white folks around here.''

Banning the flag is a part of reconstructionist, revisionist view of history taking place in the South, he said, and along with that comes the loss of a piece of the region's story.

``There's a story that's not being told here in the south end of America -- a tragedy here in Maryville.''

At the courthouse, he said he hopes members of the Maryville Board of Education will come out and talk with him. He was critical of the board's decision to ban the flags.

Last month, the board voted on first reading to ban flags, noisemakers, sirens, whistles, laser-pointers and hand-held signs. The no-flag policy would eliminate the use of a symbol long associated with the school.

``Now here we have an institution -- calls itself a school board -- it's supposed to be for a process of learning for our children,'' said Edgerton. ``Instead of teaching those children the other side of the story, because there's more than one side of the story -- we each come here with the same Northern revisionist history and we start to ban the flag, stop the dialogue -- don't want to have it. ... You can't turn black folks into haters against their sovereign; create all the same kind of reconstructionist hatred that Abraham Lincoln and his boys did around here.

``We've totally opened our arms to folks that come here; now they want to change our morals, who we are as people, dishonor our ancestors, and then all we're going to do is just holler `slavery' and end the dialogue and, no sir: it don't happen like that, don't work like that.

``There are many Southerners around here just like myself, who are loyal to the South, who know and understand history, and who know and understand this reconstructionist, revisionist policy folks abuse.''

Edgerton said the point of the walk was to call attention to the ``ethnic cleansing of Southern history.''

His march is sponsored by the Tennessee Division of the Sons of the Confederate Veterans. He is a former president of the Asheville Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. He also serves as chairman for the Board of Advisors of the Southern Legal Resource Center, a ``Southern heritage'' civil rights organization in Black Mountain, N.C.

He brushed aside the titles, though, and said he was just ``an old Southern black boy. I've been in civil rights all my life. .... I'm just an ordinary country boy from the South who loves the southland.''

 

[Hobbit]

I feel the same way. Every time patriots get up to list U.S. triumphs, the South is listed right up with the Nazis, King George, and the Communists as an evil, oppressive regime that the world's far better off without. To be honest, I think the world would have been better off if the whole issue had been handled democratically. The South did not fight for slavery or oppression. You don't lay down your life for values like that. The South fought for states' rights and the right to run their own lives rather than having the "enlightened" people of the North do it for them. Recontruction has been going on ever since as "enlightened" Yankees like that horseface from Massachussetts are constantly trying to tell us that they know better than us. Well, lemme tell you something, the Civil war isn't as black and white as WWII. The North was not righteous and the South was not evil. I think the country's better off united, but the South needed to be heard rather than quashed as ignorant idiots who couldn't figure it out themselves. Lee was a patriot and a great man. Sheman was a butcher. The Confederate flag stood for independence and the rights of the states, not slavery. The majority of the Southern army didn't even own slaves

I want to see this revisionist propoganda against my people stopped.

 

[GotZoom]

I have always said that I wonder what would be happening if the KKK marched with a Hello Kitty flag instead of a Confederate one.

 

[Annie]

I have always said that I wonder what would be happening if the KKK marched with a Hello Kitty flag instead of a Confederate one.

Folks would think them Japanese?

 

[dilloduck]

I have always said that I wonder what would be happening if the KKK marched with a Hello Kitty flag instead of a Confederate one.

Hello Kitty?-----fill me in--I'm ignorant on this one

 

[GotZoom]

Hello Kitty?-----fill me in--I'm ignorant on this one

Hello Kitty is HUGE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Kitty

 

[dilloduck]

Hello Kitty is HUGE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello_Kitty

Thanks dude-----boy am I way out of it or what---I'm so embarrassed!

 

[5stringJeff]

I fail to see why the Confederate battle flag (it wasn't the national flag) is so hated. Do people really want to bury their heads in the sand about the War Between the States?

 

[-Cp]

I fail to see why the Confederate battle flag (it wasn't the national flag) is so hated. Do people really want to bury their heads in the sand about the War Between the States?

I'm sure it's because so many ignorant people unjustly associate that flag with slavery and bigotry....

It's too bad they don't really understand all the Confederate Flag stood for...

 

[GotZoom]

I fail to see why the Confederate battle flag (it wasn't the national flag) is so hated. Do people really want to bury their heads in the sand about the War Between the States?

Because it is the flag the KKK chose to use as their "symbol."

A misunderstood symbol: the Confederate flag

by Howard Draper

Guest Columnist
June 14, 2005

Tony Horwitz writes in his review of John Coski's The Confederate Battle Flag: America's Most Embattled Emblem that "few emblems in American history have provoked stronger passions than the battle flag of the vanquished Confederacy. To some it symbolizes honor and independence; to others, hatred and slavery." How can a flag that was never officially recognized as the flag of a country, a flag that never flew over a government building or other facility, become one of America's most divisive symbols. It is the purpose of this brief article to look at the history of the Confederate flag, not to make judgement on what it stands for.

The First National flag, or "Stars and Bars," of the Confederacy flew from 1861 to 1863. When limp, the flag with its alternating red and white bars with a blue field of seven white stars, looks much like the American flag. Due to this similarity, great difficulty arose in distinguishing between the two, especially on the battlefield. Many cases of friendly fire arose. This led to the adoption of the Second National flag, adopted in 1863. However, it's long white field with the St. Andrew's Cross in the upper left corner made it appear as a flag of surrender in the midst of battle. This led to the adoption of the Third National flag in March 1865, one month prior to the surrender of General Robert E. Lee at Appomattox Court House. This flag was similar to the Second National, different only in that it included a red stripe on the end of the flag. These were the only flags officially adopted as flags of the Confederacy. So, how did the Battle flag come to be the symbol of the Confederacy?

The Confederate Battle flag was exactly that - a battle flag. It was adopted by General P.G.T. Beauregard as a result of near friendly fire at the Battle of First Manassas. Beauregard, seeing a force moving on his left flank, stared at the flag of this force, but through the smoke of battle, was unable to determine whether it was the "Stars and Stripes" or the "Stars and Bars." Fortunately, Beauregard did not advance on the force as it turned out to be the 7th Louisiana Regiment. It was this incident that led Beauregard to push "then to have [our flag] changed if possible, or to adopt for my command a 'Battle flag,' which would be entirely different from any State or Federal flag."

It was Beauregard's design that became the now familiar battle flag, the flag flown primarily with land troops in battle and also used by cavalry and artillery units. The flag was only used in battle and never flew over government buildings or other facilities, though the design was incorporated into the Second and Third National flags.

So, why has the flag become such a divisive issue in American society today. For almost 85 years between the end of the Civil War and World War II, the "Confederate battle flag was the object of virtually uncontested public reverence in the South and increasing acceptance from the rest of the nation." Not until some Southerners began flying the flag in response to the 1954 landmark Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka did people begin to see the flag as a symbol of hatred as it is seen by some today. Also, hate groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan and neo-nazi's have adopted the flag as their own. But did those soldiers in 1861 see the flag as a symbol of hate? For many of them, the fact that a foreign power was invading their country and their shorelines were being blockaded (even though they had not seceded and were still a part of the federal union) was the reason they were fighting. Most of them had no regard for slavery, tariffs, or other political issues.

For more information on this most revered and hated symbol, John Coski, historian at the Museum of the Confederacy, has recently published The Confederate Battle Flag: America's Most Embattled Emblem. Also of interest is "The Damned Red Flags of the Rebellion": The Confederate Battle Flag at Gettysburg by Richard Rollins.

http://www.usavanguard.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/06/14/42af7fbc6b361

 

[Annie]

I'm sure it's because so many ignorant people unjustly associate that flag with slavery and bigotry....

It's too bad they don't really understand all the Confederate Flag stood for...

Let's face it, 99% of the people believe the Civil War was about Slavery. Not that ending it wasn't a good by-product, but it wasn't the only or even main issue at the time, at least for the leadership of both sides.

 

[5stringJeff]

Let's face it, 99% of the people believe the Civil War was about Slavery. Not that ending it wasn't a good by-product, but it wasn't the only or even main issue at the time, at least for the leadership of both sides.

For the South, it was about independence.

For the North, it was about MONEY. The Union was losing money because all the tariffs were levied off of Southern cotton.

 

[Annie]

For the South, it was about independence.

For the North, it was about MONEY. The Union was losing money because all the tariffs were levied off of Southern cotton.

I agree with that. Also for the South there was the issue of population and loss of clout. If they could break away, they would have the control they figured had been the cause of the Revolutionary War. It was quickly slipping away, they figured forever. (They couldn't know about the Rust Belt or the Baby Boomers retiring. )

The North a bit more was for ending slavery, ala the abolishionists, but they were pretty small in number. What really got the North was the 'leaving the Union", for whatever reason. That is where Lincoln was too...

 

[padisha emperor]

I'm sure it's because so many ignorant people unjustly associate that flag with slavery and bigotry....

It's too bad they don't really understand all the Confederate Flag stood for...

agree with you.

I love Navy, and I have some navy flags, like the Royal Navy Flag, the french Marine Nationale's flag, and the Kriegsmarine's flag of the WWI :

But because there is the Cross of Iron, people think sometimes that it is a nazi flag - the fact that it is a military flag don't arrange the things - .
they ignore that the Iron Cross is an old decoration : it was created in 1813 !

And there is the same form than the WWII nazi's navy.

but this flag has no link with the Nazis, and the Cross of Iron, the Eisernes Kreuz, not at all.


It's boring when people take some things for things they are not.


For myself, I see the Confederate flag not as the symbol of slavery. And for the esthetism, it's a real nice flag. I find it nicer than the US stars and stripes

 

[theim]

I'm sure it's because so many ignorant people unjustly associate that flag with slavery and bigotry....

It's too bad they don't really understand all the Confederate Flag stood for...

like Treason?

 

[Hobbit]

like Treason?

There was no treason. The states had a right to secede and did so because they felt they were being trampled, which they were. The war started not with an invasion of the North, but of the South. The first battle was over a fort off the South Carolina coast. The North occupied it and was asked to move, since the land was no longer subject to the federal government. Because of this, the South tried to force the North to retreat without bloodshed. It worked. Only a horse was killed in the battle. The North then used that as an excuse to invade, starting with Virginia. The men fighting for the South were patriots and heroes. They were simply on the losing side. Is it not the duty of the citizens to battle against an unjust government? If anything, Lincoln was the traitor (which I would never truly accuse him of being, as his desire for unity pulled the country back together) for ignoring the Constitution in his war effort. Just look up all the guys he locked up just for speaking in favor of the South.

 

[onedomino]

For the South, it was about independence.

For the North, it was about MONEY. The Union was losing money because all the tariffs were levied off of Southern cotton.

The above remark about the North’s motivation for fighting back in the Civil War (it was the South that started the fighting by attacking the Federal post at Fort Sumter) is false. To suggest that the North went to war for money is disrespectful of the hundreds of thousands who died to preserve the Union and ultimately to end slavery. At the beginning of the war, the North's goal was to preserve the Union. The Southern leaders that promoted the dissolution of the Union committed treason and it was Lincoln's duty to stop it. Did the Union soldiers killed at Shiloh and Gettysburg die for money? Did Lincoln fight to keep the South in the Union for money? Obviously not. The Civil War virtually bankrupted the North. Moreover, to state that the South fought for independence is obfuscation in the extreme. The reason that the South sought independence was to preserve its economic way of life which was based on the institution of slavery.

 

[onedomino]

There was no treason. The states had a right to secede and did so because they felt they were being trampled, which they were. The war started not with an invasion of the North, but of the South. The first battle was over a fort off the South Carolina coast. The North occupied it and was asked to move, since the land was no longer subject to the federal government. Because of this, the South tried to force the North to retreat without bloodshed. It worked. Only a horse was killed in the battle. The North then used that as an excuse to invade, starting with Virginia. The men fighting for the South were patriots and heroes. They were simply on the losing side. Is it not the duty of the citizens to battle against an unjust government? If anything, Lincoln was the traitor (which I would never truly accuse him of being, as his desire for unity pulled the country back together) for ignoring the Constitution in his war effort. Just look up all the guys he locked up just for speaking in favor of the South.

What history books are you reading? Were they written by Jefferson Davis? Fort Sumter was, and is, Federal property. The Southern leaders who led the States to leave the Union were guilty of treason. As United States citizens, they took up arms against the United States and that is treason.

 

[Hobbit]

What history books are you reading? Were they written by Jefferson Davis? Fort Sumter was, and is, Federal property. The Southern leaders who led the States to leave the Union were guilty of treason. As United States citizens, they took up arms against the United States and that is treason.

If that was treason, then so was the American Revolution. When the Confederates seceded, they were no longer part of the United States. What history books are you reading?

 

[theim]

There was no treason. The states had a right to secede and did so because they felt they were being trampled, which they were. The war started not with an invasion of the North, but of the South. The first battle was over a fort off the South Carolina coast. The North occupied it and was asked to move, since the land was no longer subject to the federal government. Because of this, the South tried to force the North to retreat without bloodshed. It worked. Only a horse was killed in the battle. The North then used that as an excuse to invade, starting with Virginia. The men fighting for the South were patriots and heroes. They were simply on the losing side. Is it not the duty of the citizens to battle against an unjust government? If anything, Lincoln was the traitor (which I would never truly accuse him of being, as his desire for unity pulled the country back together) for ignoring the Constitution in his war effort. Just look up all the guys he locked up just for speaking in favor of the South.

Huh. That sure is an...interesting...interpretation of events.

Yet the facts are what they are. Just because some "good ole' boys" decide they would rather not be apart of the US after all does not make them a country, it makes them traitors. Period. The American colonists were traitors to the British crown for good reasons which I don't have to repeat here. The Southerners were traitors to preserve an archaic and inhuman institution, no matter how one tries to spin it. If I declare my house an independent nation, like the Repulic of Paulopia, does that make me a country? Is the US really little more than a club to you, where people can secede whenever they don't like it?

I frankly can't imagine how we are actually having a debate about this.

EDIT: Just thought this would be pertinent:

Section. 3.
Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.