Some arguments against the current healthcare reform bill

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Christopher, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. Christopher
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    Christopher Active Member

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    There are several talking points that people use (particularly Democrats) to justify the current healthcare reform bill (HR3200) which I would like to provide reasonable arguments against. I will be quoting from the following Wiki article throughout to provide some backup for my arguments. Before anyone questions Wiki as a source, check the sources cited by the Wiki in the article first. Ok, the site will not allow me to post the link until I have 15 posts. The Wiki article I am talking about here is titled "Health care in the United States".

    The first talking point I would like to address is regarding the ranking of the US healthcare system, such as the ranking the World Health Organization provides. Democrats are saying we have a system with a low rating compared to other countries and this is true and they want try and get our system rated higher. What is not told is how the rating system works. There is more weight on covering all citizens than there is on the citizen satisfaction. From the article:
    How can countries have some of the highest healthcare ratings, yet their citizens are completely dissatisfied with the system and rate it poorly? That makes no sense.

    Another part of this rating system is the price per capita paid or the total cost as a percentage of GDP. The US does pay the highest per capita and highest percentage of GDP for healthcare spending. However, once again the entire context of why we spend so much for healthcare is not told by the Democrats or others that are for the current bill. Let’s examine why our costs have increased. It is not just the greedy health insurance companies. Another quote:
    The fact is we spend three time more per capita on medical innovations than Europe does (see the article for reference to this). Another quote to provide more context here from the CBO quoted in the Wiki article:
    This gives us a good indication as to why health care spending has increased, yet we do not seem to hear this from those for the current bill. Another interesting fact is that the US seems to be shouldering much of the cost of these technological advances. As an example from new drugs developed:

    Other countries are riding on the backs of U.S. consumers. So, they get to keep their costs down since they do not have to front the developmental costs, yet the US takes a hit on its rating system because of it. That does not seem too fair, does it?

    OK, let’s turn to the talking points about saving money. I understand that the majority of the funding for technological advancements and research is privately funded. Yet, the main point of the current health care reform bill is to reduce health care costs, correct? Is the government going to fund all of the research and development of innovations with their health care plan? If not, how are they going to save anything on this when it constitutes half of the growth in health care cost?

    Another argument used is that preventative care will save a lot of money. While it may save some cost, there are offset costs with people who never become ill. From the article:

    Another fact from the article is that the government already pays around one half of all the health care costs. The US government alone ranks in the top ten in total spending for health care.

    This is mostly for Medicare, Medicaid. SCHIP, etc. This represents a large portion of health care spending, so how is the government going to decrease these costs? Let’s not forget the fact that the government intervention with these programs has already caused cost increases in the private sector. Again, from the article:

    I am for health care reform and know it needs to be done; I just completely disagree with the current reform bill and the way in which it will substantially increase government control. Mainly because this will lead to fewer choices, and lower quality of care down the road.

    The Democrats are selling us their plan without giving us the entire context, such as all the reasons why we have higher costs. They are telling we will still have a “choice” which is not going to be true in the long run either. The government system will continue to shift more of the cost onto private insurers to the point that the majority will not be able to afford them either. They will continue to put insurance companies out of business with seemingly “more affordable” coverage.
     
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  2. Meister
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    Meister VIP Member Supporting Member

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    You have a good grasp on the issue.
     
  3. Cecilie1200
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    Cecilie1200 Gold Member

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    I already did this on another thread. Noticeably, the leftists preferred to stick to the threads where they could shout soundbytes and talking points and didn't have to try to refute actual information.
     
  4. Christopher
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    Christopher Active Member

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    Thanks. This is one of the most important issues facing us right now. I think we all ned to be informed on it.
     
  5. Cecilie1200
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    Cecilie1200 Gold Member

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    Just so you don't hold your breath waiting for some segments of the population to become informed, or even recognize that they should.
     
  6. Christopher
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    Christopher Active Member

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    I believe you. I posted something similar to this in another forum and received nothing but silence from the left as well. I have to say they are good at just ignoring the logical, reasonable arguments against their agenda and using the "angry right-wing mobs" to help justify their position.
     
  7. cunclusion
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    cunclusion Member

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    So what do you think about our HealthCare system. Because actually its not only the Medicaid and Medicare that increase costs. Let me tell you something when someone goes to the emergency room and has no insurance he or she gets a bill, now they can pay it or not. Now when they dont pay the hospital takes a hit then they charge people with insurance more money. That is one of the major reasons for the raise in costs. Now this information I got straight from the local hospitals way before this health care issue even came up. There has to be a way to cover them too, there is always a way if we work together instead of fighting/yelling we could come up with something that works for everyone. But there are no valid counter proposals that address the issue.
     
  8. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    You obviously want poor people dying in the guttter!! :D
     
  9. veritas
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    veritas OBKB

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    Well actually it does if the study is measured on multiple points, like the one you cited since only people that have access to the system were polled. It stands to reason that covering entire populations would be given more weight than leaving large portions off to fend for themselves.


    Some of the reasons are not pretty. Like say you have been taking quinine for severe foot and leg cramps. Quinine is cheap, effective and has a long track record. So the drug companies stop making and selling it and then offer their new alternative, which is $300/mo. Guess what, the insurance company won't pay for the new drug. Your best bet is to develop a taste for tonic water.

    I wrote elsewhere that there are several major innovations in artificial hips that are cheaper, less invasive and require much less recovery time. They are approved, but the tool that is used to insert them and makes them so much better is not. The tool is reusable, autoclavable and would never wear out. Small technicality, right? Not really, it's anti-trust medical supplier tactics. This goes on with just about everything.

    Let's say you have a colostomy. Running low on bags? Not so fast, you have to have a prescription for bags, so that means an unnecessary visit to the doctor so you can buy bags so you have something to crap in.

    That's just the tip of the iceberg.
     
  10. Cecilie1200
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    Cecilie1200 Gold Member

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    There are a lot of reasons for increasing costs and increasing healthcare spending, and most of them are a lot more complicated than people want to believe, because people like a quick, simple "fix".

    For the record, both federal and state government make funds available to hospitals and clinics to cover the costs of indigent patients. I doubt if it's enough to cover costs incurred by illegal immigrants, but that's another issue. The point is, this area already has government intervention in it, so it hardly indicates a need for radical overhaul of the entire healthcare system.
     

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