Solutions To National Debt "Are Painful"

[akelch]

The debit can be payed off....but you have to address our monetary system first. Plus, decrease government spending to around 10 to 12% GDP.

 

[jwoodie]

While Obama has certainly made the problem worse, it did not begin with him.

Is that supposed to be some kind of excuse?

 

[WillowTree]

Yes.. revenue AND spending must be addressed... we need to keep up revenue, while allowing the private economy to grow to continue to increase revenue, while cutting out the outrageous spending which got us to where we are... We cannot tax a select few to death, taking at extraordinary levels, while doing nothing else...

We have an ever growing number not paying income taxes.. we have tons of revenue from other tax sources... nobody should be off the hooks in this crisis.. NOBODY

We have to get that revenue coming in, but also continuing to have it come in in the future.. just increasing taxes on 'the rich' is not going to allow for revenue growth

We have to cut at least 40% from our federal government spending.. this is not in question.. and it has to come from everywhere, including defense... but you cannot just do it from defense... you have to eliminate things such as handouts to other countries... you have to eliminate permanent entitlement programs... reduce temporary safety net programs.. eliminate waste.. stop pet projects.. and IMHO have an iron clad balanced budget amendment where any emergency increases above the previous year's income are countered with cuts to other areas...

That's the problem no one wants to talk about, less people paying taxes, more people with carve outs. That's why the loud braying that the rich don't pay their fair share. It's a smoke and mirrors game, so the leeches can continue to leech.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

No. It is reality. Did we have massive deficits before him or not?

 

[akelch]

Yes.. revenue AND spending must be addressed... we need to keep up revenue, while allowing the private economy to grow to continue to increase revenue, while cutting out the outrageous spending which got us to where we are... We cannot tax a select few to death, taking at extraordinary levels, while doing nothing else...

We have an ever growing number not paying income taxes.. we have tons of revenue from other tax sources... nobody should be off the hooks in this crisis.. NOBODY

We have to get that revenue coming in, but also continuing to have it come in in the future.. just increasing taxes on 'the rich' is not going to allow for revenue growth

We have to cut at least 40% from our federal government spending.. this is not in question.. and it has to come from everywhere, including defense... but you cannot just do it from defense... you have to eliminate things such as handouts to other countries... you have to eliminate permanent entitlement programs... reduce temporary safety net programs.. eliminate waste.. stop pet projects.. and IMHO have an iron clad balanced budget amendment where any emergency increases above the previous year's income are countered with cuts to other areas...

Nice thoughts... I agree totally. But we need to take it farther.

Our monetary system is the root of all our problems. Yes, government spending is also a big part. But with our "debt money system" if we pay back our debt there will be no money.

We need to take away the monopoly that the banks have in creating our money and return it to the Treasury Department. Then eliminate the ability of bankers to loan money they don't have (Fractal reserve lending).

After that, then we can address our tax structure and government spending.

 

[Flopper]

Yes.. revenue AND spending must be addressed... we need to keep up revenue, while allowing the private economy to grow to continue to increase revenue, while cutting out the outrageous spending which got us to where we are... We cannot tax a select few to death, taking at extraordinary levels, while doing nothing else...

We have an ever growing number not paying income taxes.. we have tons of revenue from other tax sources... nobody should be off the hooks in this crisis.. NOBODY

We have to get that revenue coming in, but also continuing to have it come in in the future.. just increasing taxes on 'the rich' is not going to allow for revenue growth

We have to cut at least 40% from our federal government spending.. this is not in question.. and it has to come from everywhere, including defense... but you cannot just do it from defense... you have to eliminate things such as handouts to other countries... you have to eliminate permanent entitlement programs... reduce temporary safety net programs.. eliminate waste.. stop pet projects.. and IMHO have an iron clad balanced budget amendment where any emergency increases above the previous year's income are countered with cuts to other areas...

Nice thoughts... I agree totally. But we need to take it farther.

Our monetary system is the root of all our problems. Yes, government spending is also a big part. But with our "debt money system" if we pay back our debt there will be no money.

We need to take away the monopoly that the banks have in creating our money and return it to the Treasury Department. Then eliminate the ability of bankers to loan money they don't have (Fractal reserve lending).

After that, then we can address our tax structure and government spending.

We live in a fiat currency system, where the government can create an infinite number of dollars at no cost to meet its obligations and that's not going to change. Of course there're consequences and we're going to have to live with them.

 

[neomalthusian]

The only real argument in favor of our current course is rooted in "Modern Monetary Policy," i.e. chartalism. Figuring it out is like delving into the depths of insanity to come to the conclusion that the rules of economics don't apply to the USA because we're special.

As far as I've been able to understand, I remain quite concerned that our collective assumption (that we won't have to face the default-or-hyperinflation dichotomy) will trigger the most epic economic bitchsmack of all time, and that this will happen within our lifetimes.

 

[Flopper]

The only real argument in favor of our current course is rooted in "Modern Monetary Policy," i.e. chartalism. Figuring it out is like delving into the depths of insanity to come to the conclusion that the rules of economics don't apply to the USA because we're special.

As far as I've been able to understand, I remain quite concerned that our collective assumption (that we won't have to face the default-or-hyperinflation dichotomy) will trigger the most epic economic bitchsmack of all time, and that this will happen within our lifetimes.

I don't agree that the debt situation will result in any kind of crisis except those created by Congress. What I do believe is that if the ratio of debt to GDP continues to rise so will the money supply needed to meet those debt obligations. The interest on the debt will become a larger portion of the budget. Gradually over time inflation will come back while the value of the dollar slips and everything will cost more in relation to what we earn.

 

[akelch]

Yes.. revenue AND spending must be addressed... we need to keep up revenue, while allowing the private economy to grow to continue to increase revenue, while cutting out the outrageous spending which got us to where we are... We cannot tax a select few to death, taking at extraordinary levels, while doing nothing else...

We have an ever growing number not paying income taxes.. we have tons of revenue from other tax sources... nobody should be off the hooks in this crisis.. NOBODY

We have to get that revenue coming in, but also continuing to have it come in in the future.. just increasing taxes on 'the rich' is not going to allow for revenue growth

We have to cut at least 40% from our federal government spending.. this is not in question.. and it has to come from everywhere, including defense... but you cannot just do it from defense... you have to eliminate things such as handouts to other countries... you have to eliminate permanent entitlement programs... reduce temporary safety net programs.. eliminate waste.. stop pet projects.. and IMHO have an iron clad balanced budget amendment where any emergency increases above the previous year's income are countered with cuts to other areas...

Nice thoughts... I agree totally. But we need to take it farther.

Our monetary system is the root of all our problems. Yes, government spending is also a big part. But with our "debt money system" if we pay back our debt there will be no money.

We need to take away the monopoly that the banks have in creating our money and return it to the Treasury Department. Then eliminate the ability of bankers to loan money they don't have (Fractal reserve lending).

After that, then we can address our tax structure and government spending.

We live in a fiat currency system, where the government can create an infinite number of dollars at no cost to meet its obligations and that's not going to change. Of course there're consequences and we're going to have to live with them.

Government does not print our money. Private banks do. Government has no control over how much money they print or how much they take out of circulation.
And all currency is fiat.

 

[Dubya]

Bowles: 'No easy way' to get books back in order | US National Headlines | Comcast

The co-chairman of the U.S. deficit commission calls failure to agree on a plan to reduce the national debt "the most disappointing thing in my life."

Erskine Bowles says "what is going on in Washington is absolutely nothing."

He also says Washington must come up with at least $4.7 trillion in deficit reduction. Failing that, he says, "we're not going to have any money left over to spend on anything else" but servicing the debt.

We need a new Government and President- Failure and inaction are considered a success in the current one.

There is only one solution and that's to grow your way out of it.

 

[akelch]

The only real argument in favor of our current course is rooted in "Modern Monetary Policy," i.e. chartalism. Figuring it out is like delving into the depths of insanity to come to the conclusion that the rules of economics don't apply to the USA because we're special.

As far as I've been able to understand, I remain quite concerned that our collective assumption (that we won't have to face the default-or-hyperinflation dichotomy) will trigger the most epic economic bitchsmack of all time, and that this will happen within our lifetimes.

I don't agree that the debt situation will result in any kind of crisis except those created by Congress. What I do believe is that if the ratio of debt to GDP continues to rise so will the money supply needed to meet those debt obligations. The interest on the debt will become a larger portion of the budget. Gradually over time inflation will come back while the value of the dollar slips and everything will cost more in relation to what we earn.

Plus, the interest of the debt is at a all time low right now. When it rises so will our deficit.
Eventually all taxes will need to be used just to pay off the interest. Nothing else.

 

[akelch]

Bowles: 'No easy way' to get books back in order | US National Headlines | Comcast

The co-chairman of the U.S. deficit commission calls failure to agree on a plan to reduce the national debt "the most disappointing thing in my life."

Erskine Bowles says "what is going on in Washington is absolutely nothing."

He also says Washington must come up with at least $4.7 trillion in deficit reduction. Failing that, he says, "we're not going to have any money left over to spend on anything else" but servicing the debt.

We need a new Government and President- Failure and inaction are considered a success in the current one.

There is only one solution and that's to grow your way out of it.

Think outside the box....the are other options. And yes, the growth of the economy is very important.

What if our currency changed? What if we the people (aka government) started printing another form of currency like Lincoln did with the "Greenbacks". Use it to pay off the debt and kill our central banking system (the Federal Reserve).

The money would then be "debt free money" and not backed by gold. We would control it's quantity with a formula that would insure it's stability. Plus, outlaw the banks power of fractal reserve lending.

Read about the only President to pay off the debt....Andrew Jackson. Plus, how Lincoln financed the Civil War without borrowing money.

 

[akelch]

The debt can be fixed within a few years without raising taxes or destroying the economy.

 

[Flopper]

Nice thoughts... I agree totally. But we need to take it farther.

Our monetary system is the root of all our problems. Yes, government spending is also a big part. But with our "debt money system" if we pay back our debt there will be no money.

We need to take away the monopoly that the banks have in creating our money and return it to the Treasury Department. Then eliminate the ability of bankers to loan money they don't have (Fractal reserve lending).

After that, then we can address our tax structure and government spending.

We live in a fiat currency system, where the government can create an infinite number of dollars at no cost to meet its obligations and that's not going to change. Of course there're consequences and we're going to have to live with them.

Government does not print our money. Private banks do. Government has no control over how much money they print or how much they take out of circulation.
And all currency is fiat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say the banks print money, I think you are referring to the banks increasing the money supply by lending more money. The federal reserve controls this by increasing the amount banks must keep in reserves which limits lending. The fed encourage banks to lend more or less by changing the discount rate that banks pay to the feds to borrow money. So yes the banks do create money but the fed controls how much.

However, the primary mechanism for increasing the money supply is fed open market purchasing. The fed buys treasury securities mostly T-bills in the open market. Most of this money received by sellers ends up in banks which increase bank reserves and thus increases lending.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Government should sell some of its ammo.

Cha-ching $

 

[akelch]

We live in a fiat currency system, where the government can create an infinite number of dollars at no cost to meet its obligations and that's not going to change. Of course there're consequences and we're going to have to live with them.

Government does not print our money. Private banks do. Government has no control over how much money they print or how much they take out of circulation.
And all currency is fiat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say the banks print money, I think you are referring to the banks increasing the money supply by lending more money. The federal reserve controls this by increasing the amount banks must keep in reserves which limits lending. The fed encourage banks to lend more or less by changing the discount rate that banks pay to the feds to borrow money. So yes the banks do create money but the fed controls how much.

However, the primary mechanism for increasing the money supply is fed open market purchasing. The fed buys treasury securities mostly T-bills in the open market. Most of this money received by sellers ends up in banks which increase bank reserves and thus increases lending.

Yes....but the Fed also controls the "printing"....and the Fed is a private banking cartel....It is not Federal and it has no reserves. It prints what it wants when it wants and how much it wants.