Solution to Marriage Issues

This is actually the most logical argument I have heard from people who are not supporters of homosexuality. Again Xsited, you ever cease to amaze me. However I will interject that there is also evidence that many cases it is a symptom of abuse.

I never said I wasn't a supporter of homosexuality. I am very 'gay friendly'. I simply don't know whether or not it's a disorder. And, yes, there is a large percentage of homosexuals that suffered from physical and/or sexual abuse as children.
 
I never said I wasn't a supporter of homosexuality. I am very 'gay friendly'. I simply don't know whether or not it's a disorder. And, yes, there is a large percentage of homosexuals that suffered from physical and/or sexual abuse as children.

My bad on the first part. Sorry.
 
I never said I wasn't a supporter of homosexuality. I am very 'gay friendly'. I simply don't know whether or not it's a disorder. And, yes, there is a large percentage of homosexuals that suffered from physical and/or sexual abuse as children.

You could say the same about heterosexuals.
 
Sorry Sky Dancer, but while many of your ideals are great you do seem to be trying to play the victim here. Xsited was agreeing with what I had said, which is a fact. However, if it is a fact than all christians who don't like gay men and women are hating the real victim and not the ones who are actually committing the worst sins, it does not however mean that gay marriage is a bad thing, nor was Xsited using it as such evidence.
 
Sorry Sky Dancer, but while many of your ideals are great you do seem to be trying to play the victim here. Xsited was agreeing with what I had said, which is a fact. However, if it is a fact than all christians who don't like gay men and women are hating the real victim and not the ones who are actually committing the worst sins, it does not however mean that gay marriage is a bad thing, nor was Xsited using it as such evidence.


Would you mind telling me which post you are responding to? Xsited says that many homosexuals were abused as children. One can truthfully say the same about heterosexuals, which is what I did.

Xsited believes that homosexuality may be a disorder that can be cured. I disagree.
 
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Southpaw Wrote:

A few questions about your proposed solution. If this plan was put into place...would you advocate the legality of civil union between any two people who were consenting adults?

Sure. That's pretty much the concept.

Therefore, could I be civilly joined with my best friend, a woman who is also heterosexual, simply because I had better health benefits and we both wanted tax breaks?

Yep. You could do that now with your best friend if she was a guy. You don't have to have sex or be in love (romance) to get married now so why then?

Could a single adult be civilly joined with an elderly parent to save money on elder care planning?

Incest? I'm not down with that. That whole inbreeding thing.

If not, why not? At this moment, our definition of "civil union" is based on our definition of "marriage." If we are removing the definition of marriage from having anything to do with civil unions (i.e. the state will only recognize civil unions, not marriages) then why would we continue to attach the emotional, spiritual connotations marriage have to civil unions?

It's my argument that civil unions should be nothing more than the legally recognized union of two people to give them tax benefits and such, typically associated with raising a family. However, the 14th says you can't discriminate against gays and we give those same benefits to infertile couples anyway so a line shouldn't be drawn, so to speak.

Does your plan advocate civil unions between any two consenting adults? Or is it still "marriage" just now "state marriage" with a different name?

Not sure what you mean... please clarify.

Great question !!!!! And how many state marriages can we be in at the same time ?

Just one. The gov'ment needs its taxes!
 
No. However, if homosexuality is proven to be a physical and/or psychological disorder, then of course I would want help to be available to them the same way that I would want sufferers from, say, bipolar disorder to have access to treatment if they want it. My posts are only meant to challenge conventional beliefs.

Funny thing is, gays don't think there is anything wrong with them even though they are not "normal". Well, deaf people don't think anything is wrong with them either and often refuse to allow their children to have coclear ear implants because they want their children to be deaf like them and belong to the deaf community.

I personally, think being gay is a neurobiological disorder for many, and possibly just a mental thing for some.

My children are on both ends of the autism spectrum disorder and that is a neurobiological disorder.

Now, the question is, if you are gay and there is a cure or medication, would you take it? My guess is no. Is that right or wrong? I don't know, it's not for me to decide.

When my kids were first diagnosed, I would have loved a cure for them. Now, I think there would be such a drastic change in my oldest that he wouldn't be him anymore. As for my youngest, I would love for him to be able to communicate with us, but if he's cured, would he still be the Andrew we know and love?

Perhaps God makes us the way we are, right or wrong, for a reason? Disease we should cure, but neurobiological disorders? Who knows?
 
Southpaw Wrote:
Yep. You could do that now with your best friend if she was a guy. You don't have to have sex or be in love (romance) to get married now so why then?

Incest? I'm not down with that. That whole inbreeding thing.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here a bit. Either civil unions have nothing to do with sex and love - and therefore are just a contractual agreement between two consenting adults...or, it is an arrangement based, in part at least, on sex and love...hence your apparent revulsion at the idea of granting the same rights and privileges to people who are related.

Seems to me that this could be perceived as unfairness in your plan...why can two consenting straight adults who have no intention of having sex together or raising a child together - but who are getting "civilly joined" for the sole purpose of getting benefits and breaks from the government be legal...but two consenting adults with no intention of having sex or having children, but who just happen to be related - NOT be allowed to civilly join?

Either civil unions are "marriages" (although you are calling them something different to appease people) - unions based on two people's love for eachother...and the possibility of sex and children to follow....

Or

They are legal contracts that should legally be made available to all consenting adults who want to receive the benefits and perks made available to people who civilly join.

It seems that you agree with me...even if you don't want to admit that there would be no true argument to stop related individuals from taking advantage of this plan if it was conducive to their financial plans...

It's my argument that civil unions should be nothing more than the legally recognized union of two people to give them tax benefits and such, typically associated with raising a family. However, the 14th says you can't discriminate against gays and we give those same benefits to infertile couples anyway so a line shouldn't be drawn, so to speak.

Here you make my point - and yours, I believe. Since we can not discriminate against couples who choose not to or who cannot have children...why would we discriminate against "couples" who choose not to have children or sex because such an act would be illegal, not to mention disgusting?

If you were a single man who could save his mother and your fellow siblings a small fortune in estate planning costs by "civilly joining" your mother for no other purpose than to take advantage of the benefits a "civil partner" receives in the planning process...why you should you be left out of those benefits when you admit that I could have be best friend on my healthcare plan, receiving gov't benefits...when I have no sexual interest in her whatsoever...I'm just helping her out?
 
IOW, you have no proof of your claim.

Didn't you just say gays have a neurological disorder like autism?

"I personally, think being gay is a neurobiological disorder for many, and possibly just a mental thing for some." Againsheila
 
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Didn't you just say gays have a neurological disorder like autism?

"I personally, think being gay is a neurobiological disorder for many, and possibly just a mental thing for some." Againsheila

I said "I personally" I don't have to provide proof when I say "I personally".

You said that homosexuals that have been "cured" were never homosexual to begin with, I asked you to prove your claim. Instead you attack me.

And I also said neurobiological which is not the same as neurological. Believe it or not Autism is neurobiological in that there is a PHYSICAL difference in the brain. It would be interesting to see if there is a PHYSICAL difference in the brain of a homosexual or bisexual vs a heterosexual. Of course no such study will be done because people like you want it to be "normal" and claim anyone that questions that is a bigot.
 
Would you mind telling me which post you are responding to? Xsited says that many homosexuals were abused as children. One can truthfully say the same about heterosexuals, which is what I did.

Xsited believes that homosexuality may be a disorder that can be cured. I disagree.

Actually he did not say he believes it. What he did say was that if it was then why aren't they allowed to study it enough to find out, just using more colorful and complete language. Which is true, if the people who think it is an illness are so adamant about it being such then why do they instead think that just praying and chanting spells can cure it when we know that it never works that way with a disease. Let science answer it and if there is a problem let science cure it, as it has with all other diseases. Which I agree, the religious freaks who want to 'cure gays' are not helping one bit with their techniques, reminds me of exorcisms.
 
I said "I personally" I don't have to provide proof when I say "I personally".

You said that homosexuals that have been "cured" were never homosexual to begin with, I asked you to prove your claim. Instead you attack me.

And I also said neurobiological which is not the same as neurological. Believe it or not Autism is neurobiological in that there is a PHYSICAL difference in the brain. It would be interesting to see if there is a PHYSICAL difference in the brain of a homosexual or bisexual vs a heterosexual. Of course no such study will be done because people like you want it to be "normal" and claim anyone that questions that is a bigot.

The simple answer to why they have never been gay, because if it was a disease they wouldn't seek help unless it caused pain and suffering, and the only pain and suffering gay men and women receive is from people who treat them like shit. But we are taught (because this is still a great nation) that what other people think is not how one should live their lives, so the real gay men and women just find others who do not treat them badly. Those who say they are and get 'cured' are cured with non-scientific crap, so there is no logical way they could have ever been gay.
 
I said "I personally" I don't have to provide proof when I say "I personally".

You said that homosexuals that have been "cured" were never homosexual to begin with, I asked you to prove your claim. Instead you attack me.

And I also said neurobiological which is not the same as neurological. Believe it or not Autism is neurobiological in that there is a PHYSICAL difference in the brain. It would be interesting to see if there is a PHYSICAL difference in the brain of a homosexual or bisexual vs a heterosexual. Of course no such study will be done because people like you want it to be "normal" and claim anyone that questions that is a bigot.

Go back and read the post. It's not an attack on YOU. I posted your own words, which I challenge. That's called discussion or debate.

You confuse me with another poster who said that any homosexuals who had been 'cured' were never homosexual to begin with. KittenKoder said that, I did not.

The APA does not consider homosexuality a disorder. We are as 'normal' as you are. I am not calling you a bigot. Get your facts straight.

I stand corrected on your choice of the term 'neurobiological disorder'. Did you pull that one out of your hat?
 
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Go back and read the post. It's not an attack on YOU. I posted your own words, which I challenge. That's called discussion or debate.

You confuse me with another poster who said that any homosexuals who had been 'cured' were never homosexual to begin with. KittenKoder said that, I did not.

The APA does not consider homosexuality a disorder. We are as 'normal' as you are. I am not calling you a bigot. Get your facts straight.\

I stand corrected on your choice of the term 'neurobiological disorder'. Did you pull that one out of your hat?

I apologize for getting it wrong on who posted that gay that have been cured were never gay to begin with.

No, I didn't pull it out of my hat. I have two special needs kids. I've been to many seminars regarding autism and adhd and have studied neurobiological disorders in children and adolesents. I have a book on it, it's actually a textbook for doctors and I had to order it through the UW bookstore.
 
The simple answer to why they have never been gay, because if it was a disease they wouldn't seek help unless it caused pain and suffering, and the only pain and suffering gay men and women receive is from people who treat them like shit. But we are taught (because this is still a great nation) that what other people think is not how one should live their lives, so the real gay men and women just find others who do not treat them badly. Those who say they are and get 'cured' are cured with non-scientific crap, so there is no logical way they could have ever been gay.

IOW, you have nothing to back up your claim.
 

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