Soldier doubts eligibility, defies president's orders

[RetiredGySgt]

I think Easterling is smart as a fox. I don't believe he really has any doubts about President Obama's legitimacy as the Commander in Chief. Instead, this could be a ploy to get out of Iraq by doing something so monumentally embarrassing to the US Army that it has no choice but to pull him out of Iraq, charge him under the UCMJ but give him a Other Than Honorable Discharge which doesn't really count against him in the civilian world.

I could be wrong. After all, we are talking about a second lieutenant!

So he's a coward, basically. Big surprise.

Perhaps. I'm only guessing (as are you). Either way, he's really just pissing in the wind and getting 15 internet seconds of fame.

On a more serious note, the Army now has to deal with someone who has brought negative publicity to the service as well as violated a fundamental rule when it comes to any public comments about the Commander in Chief. The fact that he publicly questioned the legitimacy of the President's authority is a very serious military matter, particularly when it comes from a commissioned officer. As I said, what will probably come out of it is what amounts to a low key dismissal either in terms of his voluntary resignation and/or a discharge under one of the applicable chapters.

As a military veteran, I question this individual's intestinal fortitude and dedication to his country. He took an oath and is now trying to renege on it.

He took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and to obey the LEGAL orders of his superiors. He went from being a contractor to being a soldier. His internal fortitude is not in question except by dumb shits without a clue.

IF he honestly believes that Obama is not legally able to be President he had no choice but to question it. Or he could have submitted a letter of resignation which would be turned down. This way he has standing to try and recitify what he believes is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That takes guts.

 

[Ravi]

So he's a coward, basically. Big surprise.

Perhaps. I'm only guessing (as are you). Either way, he's really just pissing in the wind and getting 15 internet seconds of fame.

On a more serious note, the Army now has to deal with someone who has brought negative publicity to the service as well as violated a fundamental rule when it comes to any public comments about the Commander in Chief. The fact that he publicly questioned the legitimacy of the President's authority is a very serious military matter, particularly when it comes from a commissioned officer. As I said, what will probably come out of it is what amounts to a low key dismissal either in terms of his voluntary resignation and/or a discharge under one of the applicable chapters.

As a military veteran, I question this individual's intestinal fortitude and dedication to his country. He took an oath and is now trying to renege on it.

He took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and to obey the LEGAL orders of his superiors. He went from being a contractor to being a soldier. His internal fortitude is not in question except by dumb shits without a clue.

IF he honestly believes that Obama is not legally able to be President he had no choice but to question it. Or he could have submitted a letter of resignation which would be turned down. This way he has standing to try and recitify what he believes is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That takes guts.

Guts, my ass. If he is commanding anyone himself, he's making them doubt their commitment to fight for the country. I can't believe anyone that served would defend this guy.

 

[BrianH]

If I do recall, there were many British officers who once questioned the British Empire and ended up fighting for independence. They were labled traitors by the British, but heroes by Americans. He should follow military orders as well as the chain of command regarding his "refusal" to obey orders. However, I see no problem with his questions and or motive behind this incident. He took an oath to protect the Constitution first, and if he believes that the Constitution is getting stomped on, he has a duty and right to question it. I think it takes extreme guts to do what this man has done. This is not an 18 or 19 year old who signed up for the military and is now afraid to fight and is getting his 15 seconds of fame for disobeying orders. This man had already been Iraq, and joined around the age of 40 because he wanted to serve his country.

 

[Diuretic]

If he doesn't like it he should quit. I've enforced laws that I didn't personally agree with. I had a choice. Do my job according to my oath of office and in line with the expectations of society or quit. I didn't quit. I did what I was expected to do. Same with this bloke. Sad that he has to make a show pony out of himself though, but that's his choice.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If he doesn't like it he should quit. I've enforced laws that I didn't personally agree with. I had a choice. Do my job according to my oath of office and in line with the expectations of society or quit. I didn't quit. I did what I was expected to do. Same with this bloke. Sad that he has to make a show pony out of himself though, but that's his choice.

MORON ALERT. He can not JUST QUIT. Further if he takes his OATH seriously, JUST QUITING is not an option anyway.

There is a HUGE difference between you as a cop and him as a soldier.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

He took an oath to protect the Constitution first, and if he believes that the Constitution is getting stomped on, he has a duty and right to question it.

I think he should be jailed for subverting authority myself.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

He took an oath to protect the Constitution first, and if he believes that the Constitution is getting stomped on, he has a duty and right to question it.

I think he should be jailed for subverting authority myself.

And I ask again, did you feel that way about the ones that questioned Bush? Or were they Hero's to you?

 

[Diuretic]

If he doesn't like it he should quit. I've enforced laws that I didn't personally agree with. I had a choice. Do my job according to my oath of office and in line with the expectations of society or quit. I didn't quit. I did what I was expected to do. Same with this bloke. Sad that he has to make a show pony out of himself though, but that's his choice.

MORON ALERT. He can not JUST QUIT. Further if he takes his OATH seriously, JUST QUITING is not an option anyway.

There is a HUGE difference between you as a cop and him as a soldier.

Enough of the moron insults, okay? If you can make a point without an insult then go ahead, if all you can do is spew insults then get stuffed.

Now, did you miss the point about duty?

Yes you did, no doubt in your frenzy to attack. All the subtlely of a fucking earthquake.

 

[Toome]

So he's a coward, basically. Big surprise.

Perhaps. I'm only guessing (as are you). Either way, he's really just pissing in the wind and getting 15 internet seconds of fame.

On a more serious note, the Army now has to deal with someone who has brought negative publicity to the service as well as violated a fundamental rule when it comes to any public comments about the Commander in Chief. The fact that he publicly questioned the legitimacy of the President's authority is a very serious military matter, particularly when it comes from a commissioned officer. As I said, what will probably come out of it is what amounts to a low key dismissal either in terms of his voluntary resignation and/or a discharge under one of the applicable chapters.

As a military veteran, I question this individual's intestinal fortitude and dedication to his country. He took an oath and is now trying to renege on it.

He took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and to obey the LEGAL orders of his superiors. He went from being a contractor to being a soldier. His internal fortitude is not in question except by dumb shits without a clue.

IF he honestly believes that Obama is not legally able to be President he had no choice but to question it. Or he could have submitted a letter of resignation which would be turned down. This way he has standing to try and recitify what he believes is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That takes guts.

With all due respect, Gunny, you know it's different for officers.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Perhaps. I'm only guessing (as are you). Either way, he's really just pissing in the wind and getting 15 internet seconds of fame.

On a more serious note, the Army now has to deal with someone who has brought negative publicity to the service as well as violated a fundamental rule when it comes to any public comments about the Commander in Chief. The fact that he publicly questioned the legitimacy of the President's authority is a very serious military matter, particularly when it comes from a commissioned officer. As I said, what will probably come out of it is what amounts to a low key dismissal either in terms of his voluntary resignation and/or a discharge under one of the applicable chapters.

As a military veteran, I question this individual's intestinal fortitude and dedication to his country. He took an oath and is now trying to renege on it.

He took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and to obey the LEGAL orders of his superiors. He went from being a contractor to being a soldier. His internal fortitude is not in question except by dumb shits without a clue.

IF he honestly believes that Obama is not legally able to be President he had no choice but to question it. Or he could have submitted a letter of resignation which would be turned down. This way he has standing to try and recitify what he believes is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That takes guts.

With all due respect, Gunny, you know it's different for officers.

Not in a war zone. In fact he knows full well what he has done, having just had classes on the potential results of his protest. Officers are in JUST as much danger in a combat zone as any other soldier in a combat zone. In fact since 2nd Lt's are platoon commanders they are on the pointy end of the stick, leading patrols and doing jobs that place them at high risk like any other grunt.

 

[Toome]

He took an oath to defend and protect the Constitution and to obey the LEGAL orders of his superiors. He went from being a contractor to being a soldier. His internal fortitude is not in question except by dumb shits without a clue.

IF he honestly believes that Obama is not legally able to be President he had no choice but to question it. Or he could have submitted a letter of resignation which would be turned down. This way he has standing to try and recitify what he believes is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. That takes guts.

With all due respect, Gunny, you know it's different for officers.

Not in a war zone. In fact he knows full well what he has done, having just had classes on the potential results of his protest. Officers are in JUST as much danger in a combat zone as any other soldier in a combat zone. In fact since 2nd Lt's are platoon commanders they are on the pointy end of the stick, leading patrols and doing jobs that place them at high risk like any other grunt.

I think you misunderstood. Of course I agree that in a war zone, we're all cannon fodder.

Officers are expected to set the example. They are held to a higher expectation of conduct. May be unfair, may be unrealistic, but it's still an expectation. This is particularly true when it comes to any public statements. Doesn't matter if he technically crossed any lines; fact remains that if sheds one shred of negative publicity, then that officer has just blown his/her chances for promotion and may be subject to further sanctions. As I'm sure you would agree, a letter of reprimand, especially if issued by a flag officer, is the kiss of death.

Whether you agree with this individual's view is not the point. He screwed up with the manner that he chose to voice his view.

 

[BrianH]

If he doesn't like it he should quit. I've enforced laws that I didn't personally agree with. I had a choice. Do my job according to my oath of office and in line with the expectations of society or quit. I didn't quit. I did what I was expected to do. Same with this bloke. Sad that he has to make a show pony out of himself though, but that's his choice.

MORON ALERT. He can not JUST QUIT. Further if he takes his OATH seriously, JUST QUITING is not an option anyway.

There is a HUGE difference between you as a cop and him as a soldier.

Enough of the moron insults, okay? If you can make a point without an insult then go ahead, if all you can do is spew insults then get stuffed.

Now, did you miss the point about duty?

Yes you did, no doubt in your frenzy to attack. All the subtlely of a fucking earthquake.

With all due respect, is not his duty to defend the Constitution of the United States first?

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

Oaths of Enlistment and Oaths of Office

I'm no lawyer, but I'd venture to guess that a violation of the constitution would void the second statement. He gave an oath to protect the Constitution, and apparently, he needs proof of Obama's eligibility in order to follow the second oath to follow orders from the President.

Granted, if this man did break military code, he should be remprimanded for whatever violation he had. However, he should not be ridiculed for his opinion and or questioning of his government and possibility of a violation of the Constitution (which this man took an oath to defend. This man cannot be compared to assholes who join the service and then squander their duty based on their disagreement with the reasons of war.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

With all due respect, Gunny, you know it's different for officers.

Not in a war zone. In fact he knows full well what he has done, having just had classes on the potential results of his protest. Officers are in JUST as much danger in a combat zone as any other soldier in a combat zone. In fact since 2nd Lt's are platoon commanders they are on the pointy end of the stick, leading patrols and doing jobs that place them at high risk like any other grunt.

I think you misunderstood. Of course I agree that in a war zone, we're all cannon fodder.

Officers are expected to set the example. They are held to a higher expectation of conduct. May be unfair, may be unrealistic, but it's still an expectation. This is particularly true when it comes to any public statements. Doesn't matter if he technically crossed any lines; fact remains that if sheds one shred of negative publicity, then that officer has just blown his/her chances for promotion and may be subject to further sanctions. As I'm sure you would agree, a letter of reprimand, especially if issued by a flag officer, is the kiss of death.

Whether you agree with this individual's view is not the point. He screwed up with the manner that he chose to voice his view.

He obviously felt it was a necassary step. Which PROVES he is not lacking in courage. I doubt this guy planned to make the military his career anyway. He joined at 40.

And he did it the proper way. He told everyone what he intended and di not try to disown or hide is concern for the threat to the Constitution.

He is wrong, I believe. And he will pay for his courage. But he was right in this case to put his money where his mouth is.

I seriously doubt that Obama is not a natural born US citizen. I seriously doubt he was not born in Hawaii. BUT as has been pointed out numerous times HIDING the information is not going to make it go away. He has taken active steps to prevent the public from ever checking independently, rather then be open, honest and TRANSPARENT. He invites the continued attacks on his right to be President by refusing to settle the matter.

The Court has spoken by dismissing all the previous claims. BUT they left the door open by insisting the dismissal was on procederal issues.

 

[Toome]

Not in a war zone. In fact he knows full well what he has done, having just had classes on the potential results of his protest. Officers are in JUST as much danger in a combat zone as any other soldier in a combat zone. In fact since 2nd Lt's are platoon commanders they are on the pointy end of the stick, leading patrols and doing jobs that place them at high risk like any other grunt.

I think you misunderstood. Of course I agree that in a war zone, we're all cannon fodder.

Officers are expected to set the example. They are held to a higher expectation of conduct. May be unfair, may be unrealistic, but it's still an expectation. This is particularly true when it comes to any public statements. Doesn't matter if he technically crossed any lines; fact remains that if sheds one shred of negative publicity, then that officer has just blown his/her chances for promotion and may be subject to further sanctions. As I'm sure you would agree, a letter of reprimand, especially if issued by a flag officer, is the kiss of death.

Whether you agree with this individual's view is not the point. He screwed up with the manner that he chose to voice his view.

He obviously felt it was a necassary step. Which PROVES he is not lacking in courage. I doubt this guy planned to make the military his career anyway. He joined at 40.

And he did it the proper way. He told everyone what he intended and di not try to disown or hide is concern for the threat to the Constitution.

He is wrong, I believe. And he will pay for his courage. But he was right in this case to put his money where his mouth is.

I seriously doubt that Obama is not a natural born US citizen. I seriously doubt he was not born in Hawaii. BUT as has been pointed out numerous times HIDING the information is not going to make it go away. He has taken active steps to prevent the public from ever checking independently, rather then be open, honest and TRANSPARENT. He invites the continued attacks on his right to be President by refusing to settle the matter.

The Court has spoken by dismissing all the previous claims. BUT they left the door open by insisting the dismissal was on procederal issues.

I respect your view that it took some measure of risk to speak out. I wouldn't call it courage.

I reserve the word "courage" for other matters.

 

[Againsheila]

If he doesn't like it he should quit. I've enforced laws that I didn't personally agree with. I had a choice. Do my job according to my oath of office and in line with the expectations of society or quit. I didn't quit. I did what I was expected to do. Same with this bloke. Sad that he has to make a show pony out of himself though, but that's his choice.

I don't think we're getting the whole story here, but if he's willing to pay the price for not following the orders of the president, then I'm behind him 100%. I think the fact that Obama has refused to show his vault birth certificate shows he's hiding something.

I think people should do what they think is right, not what other people think is right for them.

 

[Againsheila]

I think you misunderstood. Of course I agree that in a war zone, we're all cannon fodder.

Officers are expected to set the example. They are held to a higher expectation of conduct. May be unfair, may be unrealistic, but it's still an expectation. This is particularly true when it comes to any public statements. Doesn't matter if he technically crossed any lines; fact remains that if sheds one shred of negative publicity, then that officer has just blown his/her chances for promotion and may be subject to further sanctions. As I'm sure you would agree, a letter of reprimand, especially if issued by a flag officer, is the kiss of death.

Whether you agree with this individual's view is not the point. He screwed up with the manner that he chose to voice his view.

He obviously felt it was a necassary step. Which PROVES he is not lacking in courage. I doubt this guy planned to make the military his career anyway. He joined at 40.

And he did it the proper way. He told everyone what he intended and di not try to disown or hide is concern for the threat to the Constitution.

He is wrong, I believe. And he will pay for his courage. But he was right in this case to put his money where his mouth is.

I seriously doubt that Obama is not a natural born US citizen. I seriously doubt he was not born in Hawaii. BUT as has been pointed out numerous times HIDING the information is not going to make it go away. He has taken active steps to prevent the public from ever checking independently, rather then be open, honest and TRANSPARENT. He invites the continued attacks on his right to be President by refusing to settle the matter.

The Court has spoken by dismissing all the previous claims. BUT they left the door open by insisting the dismissal was on procederal issues.

I respect your view that it took some measure of risk to speak out. I wouldn't call it courage.

I reserve the word "courage" for other matters.

such as?

 

[Toome]

He obviously felt it was a necassary step. Which PROVES he is not lacking in courage. I doubt this guy planned to make the military his career anyway. He joined at 40.

And he did it the proper way. He told everyone what he intended and di not try to disown or hide is concern for the threat to the Constitution.

He is wrong, I believe. And he will pay for his courage. But he was right in this case to put his money where his mouth is.

I seriously doubt that Obama is not a natural born US citizen. I seriously doubt he was not born in Hawaii. BUT as has been pointed out numerous times HIDING the information is not going to make it go away. He has taken active steps to prevent the public from ever checking independently, rather then be open, honest and TRANSPARENT. He invites the continued attacks on his right to be President by refusing to settle the matter.

The Court has spoken by dismissing all the previous claims. BUT they left the door open by insisting the dismissal was on procederal issues.

I respect your view that it took some measure of risk to speak out. I wouldn't call it courage.

I reserve the word "courage" for other matters.

such as?

Anybody can speak out whatever is on his or her mind or put words on an internet board. Remaining in your assigned fighting position once the bullets start whizzing past your head with the sudden realization that there are people trying to put holes into your body is something that requires true courage. This isn't limited to just military situations. Police officers, firefighters and other similar first responders who deliberately go towards danger rather than away from it are also examples of courage. But since this topic is focused on a military officer subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice who opted to voice his opinions to the news media, I would think that how and when the term "courage" applies would be pretty self evident. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Againsheila]

I respect your view that it took some measure of risk to speak out. I wouldn't call it courage.

I reserve the word "courage" for other matters.

such as?

Anybody can speak out whatever is on his or her mind or put words on an internet board. Remaining in your assigned fighting position once the bullets start whizzing past your head with the sudden realization that there are people trying to put holes into your body is something that requires true courage. This isn't limited to just military situations. Police officers, firefighters and other similar first responders who deliberately go towards danger rather than away from it are also examples of courage. But since this topic is focused on a military officer subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice who opted to voice his opinions to the news media, I would think that how and when the term "courage" applies would be pretty self evident. Wouldn't you agree?

Apparently not. I think it took guts for this guy to join the military in the first place. He did that by choice, knowing he would be sent to Iraq. Now he's speaking out because he doesn't believe the commander in chief is eligible to be POTUS. This puts him in a heck of a position where he could end up spending the rest of his life in a military prison, .....that takes guts.

I didn't read anything about him leaving his assigned fighting position...then again, I don't think we've got the whole story. All I read was he was challenging Obama's eligibility to be commander in chief.

In the military, you are allowed to question your superiors....there is a procedure for that...and a lot of paperwork, but you are suppose to continue to follow the orders until it's settled, otherwise you face courtmarshall.

 

[Toome]

such as?

Anybody can speak out whatever is on his or her mind or put words on an internet board. Remaining in your assigned fighting position once the bullets start whizzing past your head with the sudden realization that there are people trying to put holes into your body is something that requires true courage. This isn't limited to just military situations. Police officers, firefighters and other similar first responders who deliberately go towards danger rather than away from it are also examples of courage. But since this topic is focused on a military officer subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice who opted to voice his opinions to the news media, I would think that how and when the term "courage" applies would be pretty self evident. Wouldn't you agree?

Apparently not. I think it took guts for this guy to join the military in the first place. He did that by choice, knowing he would be sent to Iraq. Now he's speaking out because he doesn't believe the commander in chief is eligible to be POTUS. This puts him in a heck of a position where he could end up spending the rest of his life in a military prison, .....that takes guts.

I didn't read anything about him leaving his assigned fighting position...then again, I don't think we've got the whole story. All I read was he was challenging Obama's eligibility to be commander in chief.

In the military, you are allowed to question your superiors....there is a procedure for that...and a lot of paperwork, but you are suppose to continue to follow the orders until it's settled, otherwise you face courtmarshall.

LOL. OK. You win.

I guess it's more courageous to speak to some member of the news media than it is to remain in a combat zone doing your duty.

 

[Ravi]

It's almost funny, if it wasn't so sad. A civilian speaks against the President's policy and somehow that destroys morale, because in the mind of people like RGS the opinions of civilians can destroy a soldier's ability to think clearly. But an active commander can trash the reputation of a President and that doesn't matter because THAT won't destroy the morale of the commander's soldiers...because the CofC is a Democrat.