Oddball
Unobtanium Member
Link?
How is that relevant to Oregon?
How is that relevant to Oregon?
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My windmill is just now breaking even. Six years.Trajan, I used to work in this industry and a friend owns the biggest wholesale network for solar components. The problem is one of labor costs and the speed with which China can ramp up an industry.
yes I believe I alluded to both.It is not cost effective. Its as simple as that. Whatever excuse we wish to employ, in the end it doesn't matter.
Thin film is far more cost effective at our labor rates, but not at Chinese labor rates. Esp when China also subsidizes new and increasingly high tech industries.
we have been subsidizing ours too.
agreed.
agreed, sadly we are not.
I hope we fare much better in the development of better battery technology. But I doubt it, even R & D costs a fraction as much in China as it does here.
this the internet and trust is hard to come by but I'll say it anyway, trust me when I tell you, that I speak to folks who work in R&D, at the tip of the spear on this and lithium technology, and we are not close, in fact we are maybe 20% of the way there when bush gave them their first stipend guarantee.
Even then, it just may not be doable, comparative labor costs or not. We think the anser is think films but even then...see my closing blurb.
Chinese industry also has several other points that take costs down which we will never lose- a real Osha type authority as over-watch meaning little to no safety regs., an ability to basically take technology at will and use it patents be damned and in that any co. who gets access to their market has to lcense aspects of their technology to them meaning huge R&D cost savings and a biggey- no Environmental regulatory agency worth speaking of.
I will look for some pics I took when I was in Dalian watching a Fab get started up. From ground breaking to near completion, tool installs etc. its a horror show.
China is a communist corporation. And they are cleaning capitalism's clock!
yup. But- they do not have an educated workforce, even on the basic level, they have to learn everything, though they are trying to change that ( and we are going backwards ) . AND within the next 20 years their demographic bomb as to one child regs and the a-fore mentioned Heath aspects of their workers will start taking a toil along with environmental aspects as well.
they can within 5 years make panels so cheap it just might be worth giving it a shot, say for ,my home. I had a guy here 6 months ago. With a;ll fo the new discounts and gov. subsidy etc. 30% right off the top, even then, he looked me straight in the face and told me even with just a 2% inflationary increase in energy costs, I would be looking at minimum 18 years to see any daylight on the investment in solar panels etc,...........
no effing way am I or anyone in their right mind especially now, going to drop 25 k on something that will take 18 years to see clear of and that does not include loss of interest on that capital in the intervening years, that I can get in a meager 3% fund.
My windmill is just now breaking even. Six years.Trajan, I used to work in this industry and a friend owns the biggest wholesale network for solar components. The problem is one of labor costs and the speed with which China can ramp up an industry.
yes I believe I alluded to both.It is not cost effective. Its as simple as that. Whatever excuse we wish to employ, in the end it doesn't matter.
we have been subsidizing ours too.
agreed.
agreed, sadly we are not.
this the internet and trust is hard to come by but I'll say it anyway, trust me when I tell you, that I speak to folks who work in R&D, at the tip of the spear on this and lithium technology, and we are not close, in fact we are maybe 20% of the way there when bush gave them their first stipend guarantee.
Even then, it just may not be doable, comparative labor costs or not. We think the anser is think films but even then...see my closing blurb.
Chinese industry also has several other points that take costs down which we will never lose- a real Osha type authority as over-watch meaning little to no safety regs., an ability to basically take technology at will and use it patents be damned and in that any co. who gets access to their market has to lcense aspects of their technology to them meaning huge R&D cost savings and a biggey- no Environmental regulatory agency worth speaking of.
I will look for some pics I took when I was in Dalian watching a Fab get started up. From ground breaking to near completion, tool installs etc. its a horror show.
China is a communist corporation. And they are cleaning capitalism's clock!
yup. But- they do not have an educated workforce, even on the basic level, they have to learn everything, though they are trying to change that ( and we are going backwards ) . AND within the next 20 years their demographic bomb as to one child regs and the a-fore mentioned Heath aspects of their workers will start taking a toil along with environmental aspects as well.
they can within 5 years make panels so cheap it just might be worth giving it a shot, say for ,my home. I had a guy here 6 months ago. With a;ll fo the new discounts and gov. subsidy etc. 30% right off the top, even then, he looked me straight in the face and told me even with just a 2% inflationary increase in energy costs, I would be looking at minimum 18 years to see any daylight on the investment in solar panels etc,...........
no effing way am I or anyone in their right mind especially now, going to drop 25 k on something that will take 18 years to see clear of and that does not include loss of interest on that capital in the intervening years, that I can get in a meager 3% fund.
My solar will be another 5.
Freedom is rather costly.
You are correct, it was considerably longer than 1.5 months, but it still got fast tracked:
Fast-Track Renewable Energy Projects
thus making them eligible for economic stimulus funding under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.
It took CA about 1.5 months to approve 7 solar plants.
10 gw more of solar online last year, 200 more of wind. Even with the current major recession, solar and wind are growing faster than any other form of energy. And will continue to as the price will continue to inch down for wind, and will come down for solar in big leaps.
Solar power in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germany is one of the world's top photovoltaics (PV) installers, with a solar PV capacity in 2009 of 8,877 megawatts (MW); this generated 6,200 gigawatt-hours (GW·h) of electricity in 2009 an average power of 710 MW.[1] Solar power now meets about 1.1 percent of Germany's electricity demand, a share that some market analysts expect could reach 25 percent by 2050.[2]
Solar power in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germany is one of the world's top photovoltaics (PV) installers, with a solar PV capacity in 2009 of 8,877 megawatts (MW); this generated 6,200 gigawatt-hours (GW·h) of electricity in 2009 an average power of 710 MW.[1] Solar power now meets about 1.1 percent of Germany's electricity demand, a share that some market analysts expect could reach 25 percent by 2050.[2]
Solar power in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germany is one of the world's top photovoltaics (PV) installers, with a solar PV capacity in 2009 of 8,877 megawatts (MW); this generated 6,200 gigawatt-hours (GW·h) of electricity in 2009 an average power of 710 MW.[1] Solar power now meets about 1.1 percent of Germany's electricity demand, a share that some market analysts expect could reach 25 percent by 2050.[2]
hold up...so in 35 years they will add a 2500% increase in their electrical OUTPUT? how many orders of magnitude is that?
so every year they have to add...uhm what %? dude....think about it.