Solar goes Diesel

[mdn2000]

I am here in Spain talking to my Spanish co-workers about Solar in Spain and they state underneath the Solar Power plants are Diesel generators.

What a great green solution.

Further they state the electrical rates are sky-high and going up ever more.

I did a quick search and found these articles on Solar-Diesel. So I have a co-worker tell me this and I get confirmation on the web.

Further there are holes in the tubing for some of the Solar farms so they now need my work, NDE inspection, I thought this was renewable, now it needs replacement and repairs, that is not green.

The insanity of greenery | Watts Up With That?

Although the exact details are slightly different there is now an intriguing report of the scam in practice. The text is based on a machine translation of the original German text:

After press reports, it was established during inspections that several solar power plants were generating current and feeding it into the net at night. To simulate a larger installation capacity, the operators connected diesel generators.

“This is just the tip of the iceberg,” said one industry expert to the newspaper “El Mundo”, which brought the scandal to light. If solar systems apparently produce current in the dark, will be noticed sooner or later. However, if electricity generators were connected during daytime, the swindle would hardly be noticed.

World first solar diesel power station launched at Marble bar | TopNews Arab Emirates

Solar diesel power station is erected at Pilbara region of Western Australia. This one is the world's first solar diesel plant which has been opened at Marble Bar. Marble Bar is a place well known for recording high temperatures.

Today Mr. Norman Moore (WA's Mines and Petroleum Minister) opened the Pippunyah Solar Diesel Power Station. This station uses the huge sun tracking solar panel farm located in Australia to get powered.

 

[daveman]

 

[iamwhatiseem]

If this is legit...wow.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Hmmm...I located a couple stories that this plant indeed has a Diesel turbine generator.
They purchased it from Man Roland.

 

[mdn2000]

Another article with a bit more information, now I need to do the same search on Wind, in Palm Springs they have a fossil fuel plant right in the middle of the Wind Farms.

Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation - BusinessWeek

By Todd White

April 12 (Bloomberg) -- A Spanish trade group called on authorities to investigate possible fraud among solar-power generators after a news report said that some were getting paid for producing power at night.

ASIF wants the “identification, charges and rigorous application of the law” applied to any power producer guilty of such practices, the Madrid-based association for Spain’s photovoltaic-panel industry said today in a statement.

An audit of solar-power generation from November 2009 to January 2010 found that some panel operators were paid for doing the “impossible” -- producing electricity from sunlight during the night, El Mundo reported today, citing a letter from Secretary of State for Energy Pedro Marin

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You know...you would think that someone would notice this sooner.
Maybe wonder just how was the moon creating energy?

 

[KissMy]

It was the Moon Bats spinning the wind turbines.

 

[JiggsCasey]

The insanity of greenery | Watts Up With That?

Citing a blog site headed by goofy Anthony Watts isn't proof of anything really. Can we use the same empty criteria? Should be fun.

You:

"I have facts! Looks at these people who think like I do and have their own web site!! Why do you ignore me!!!!"
​

 

[mdn2000]

The insanity of greenery | Watts Up With That?

Citing a blog site headed by goofy Anthony Watts isn't proof of anything really. Can we use the same empty criteria? Should be fun.

You:

"I have facts! Looks at these people who think like I do and have their own web site!! Why do you ignore me!!!!"
​

I see how you back up everything with fact, I actually included four sources, one a man who lives here in Spain.

Its nice to see that Jiggs needs to cherry pick what Jiggs responds to, nice partisan hack you are.

On top of Cherry Picking a thread, Jiggs needs to demean the blogger. Of course the blog links to sources, I guess Jiggs must ignore this as well.

If this is your argument I cant wait to see one of your threads you started months ago.

Go ahead, bump one.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hey look, mdn, they are very happy with solar this year in Germany because it doesn't require water to keep pumping out power.

German power supply cuts can be offset by solar | Reuters

LONDON | Fri Jul 9, 2010 9:45am EDT

LONDON (Reuters) - Germany is being hit by an extreme heat wave, fuelling concerns of power supply cuts by plants that rely on river water for cooling, but the country's vast solar capacity should be able to avoid supply shortages, traders said.
During Germany's last severe heat wave in 2006, high temperatures resulted in large-scale power capacity cuts as several major power plants had to shut down to avoid further rises in water temperatures.

"Should temperatures stay in the 30s (degrees Celsius) for a couple of weeks, then I'm sure we'll see large capacity cuts this year too, but many traders have overlooked the increase in German solar capacity since 2006, which I expect will pretty much offset all cuts we might see," one utility trader said.

German solar power generation capacity has increased more than three fold from around 2,800 megawatt (MW) in 2006 to around 10,000 MW this year, according to the German environment ministry.

The Germans have the equivelant of 10 nukes in the solar they have installed. No danger of reactor leaks, no need of cooling water, no waste to deal with. And after 20 years, well, they just keep pumping out the power.

 

[daveman]

Hey look, mdn, they are very happy with solar this year in Germany because it doesn't require water to keep pumping out power.

German power supply cuts can be offset by solar | Reuters

LONDON | Fri Jul 9, 2010 9:45am EDT

LONDON (Reuters) - Germany is being hit by an extreme heat wave, fuelling concerns of power supply cuts by plants that rely on river water for cooling, but the country's vast solar capacity should be able to avoid supply shortages, traders said.
During Germany's last severe heat wave in 2006, high temperatures resulted in large-scale power capacity cuts as several major power plants had to shut down to avoid further rises in water temperatures.

"Should temperatures stay in the 30s (degrees Celsius) for a couple of weeks, then I'm sure we'll see large capacity cuts this year too, but many traders have overlooked the increase in German solar capacity since 2006, which I expect will pretty much offset all cuts we might see," one utility trader said.

German solar power generation capacity has increased more than three fold from around 2,800 megawatt (MW) in 2006 to around 10,000 MW this year, according to the German environment ministry.

The Germans have the equivelant of 10 nukes in the solar they have installed. No danger of reactor leaks, no need of cooling water, no waste to deal with. And after 20 years, well, they just keep pumping out the power.

How much diesel do those solar plants burn?

 

[mdn2000]

A even bigger scandal is developing in Spain. Thank god Americans are the most honest people on earth, we would never behave like the Spanish people, Americans are immune to greed.

Solar Fraud Could Eliminate Spanish Market:Greentech Media

Solar Fraud Could Eliminate Spanish Market
A government investigation has uncovered many incomplete projects that were reported as finished by a September deadline. Those projects could qualify for the new 500MW cap for 2009, blocking new project applications.

A 500-megawatt solar energy development quota set by the Spanish government for 2009 might already be filled.

That's because an ongoing government investigation has uncovered widespread fraud that could in effect reward those who falsely claimed to have completed solar power projects by a September deadline when they didn't, wrote Jeff Osborne, an equity analyst with Thomas Weisel Partners, in a research note Monday.

Projects that weren't completed in time by Sept. 28 will now get first consideration to fill the 500-megawatt cap the government has set for solar power development in the country through 2009, Osborne said.

"As a result of this bonanza of greed that occurred in the Spanish region pre-September 28th and the fraudulent project developer activity, we could see these fraudulent solar farms take up the entire 500MW cap next year given the new scope of the investigation. This would lead to no new shipments into this key region of demand," Osborne wrote.

Spain has a lucrative feed-in tariff program that requires utilities to buy solar electricity at high rates set by the government. After seeing an explosive growth of solar energy projects that far surpassed its estimates, the government reduced the solar electricity rates for solar power plants installed after Sept. 28 this year.

The new rates – and a cap that the new rates would only apply to 500 megawatts worth of projects – would be in effect through 2009 (see Spain Approves 500MW for Solar).

A rush to install solar energy systems by Sept. 28 has led to reports of fraud by developers claiming they had finished their projects when they only installed some of the panels or, in some cases, put in fake solar panels to buy time, said Francesco d'Avack, a solar analyst with New Energy Finance in London.

The National Energy Commission, or CNE, began investigating these reports in late October (see Solaria Has a Solar Park Deal for You). After checking 287 solar farms, investigators found that only 97 of the projects (roughly 44 percent) were legally completed by September, Osborne wrote.

Spanish newspaper El Pais published a story on Dec. 7 about the government investigation, noting that six government workers resigned after evidence showed they gave solar energy development permits to relatives.

The corruption also has caused an oversupply of solar panels. Paula Mints, market researcher for Navigant Consulting, jolted the solar industry two weeks ago with her assessment that as much as 1.7 gigawatts of panels were bought for installation in Spain by Sept. 28, only 800 megawatts of them were actually installed (see Solar a Bust in Spain).

"Spain is a bit of a mess," Mints said. "Where are those panels going to go in this economic downturn? We are in a precarious situation.

 

[mdn2000]

Wow, the problem is Spain is bigger than I knew, thanks Old Crock into motivating me to find this new source material full of facts.

Solar Pain in Spain | Physics - Top News | Newsodrome

German Vilimelis heard about Spains solar gold rush from his brother-in-law in 2007.
Now Vilimelis and more than 50,000 other Spanish solar entrepreneurs face financial disaster as the policy makers contemplate cutting the price guarantees that attracted their investment in the first place.
You feel cheated, he says. We put our money in on the basis of a law.
Zapatero introduced the subsidies three years ago as part of an effort to cut his countrys dependence on fossil fuels. At the time, he promised that the investment in renewable energy would create manufacturing jobs and that Spain could sell its panels to nations seeking to reduce carbon emissions.
Yet by failing to control the programs cost, Zapatero saddled Spain with at least 126 billion euros of obligations to.

 

[Old Rocks]

Failed Visions of a Nuclear Future: The Satsop Power Plant Land Tales

 

[daveman]

Failed Visions of a Nuclear Future: The Satsop Power Plant Land Tales

Deflection.

 

[JiggsCasey]

I see how you back up everything with fact, I actually included four sources, one a man who lives here in Spain.

Its nice to see that Jiggs needs to cherry pick what Jiggs responds to, nice partisan hack you are.

On top of Cherry Picking a thread, Jiggs needs to demean the blogger. Of course the blog links to sources, I guess Jiggs must ignore this as well.

If this is your argument I cant wait to see one of your threads you started months ago.

Go ahead, bump one.

LOL... Don't get all BUTT hurt because your argument is getting taken behind the woodshed all over the energy forum, whiner.

I shouldn't have to provide my entire platform a 500th time for morons like you who perpetually fake "I don't get it!" over and over again. Any high schooler can apply himself and get a rudimentary understanding of what the term "Peak Oil" means simply by using "the Google."

If you have a more specific question on something you're fuzzy on, flesh it out and get specific. If not, grow up, and start acting intellectually honest. Peak isn't some mystery. It's accepted geology and basic supply/demand scale economics.

 

[mdn2000]

Jiggs, where is the link, I followed three links you provided, than followed the links within the links, and found another link, that all led to "coloring boog graphics", we were speaking specifically of peak oil theory. I wont bother you to provide the theory, if you dont have, if you cant find it, so be it. I will let you off the hook.

I have a great idea, we can have feed-tariffs (higher electric rates) paid to Solar Power Plants, we can give Solar Power Plants huge subsidies, then if we tax nuclear power and demand they pay billions up front to operate we can take all that money and give it to the CEO's that operate the Solar Power Plants. The CEO's can get huge bonuses and become filthy rich while the people pay extra high prices for electricity.

If it was not for Nuclear power, Solar Power would never be built.

Further Additional Tax for Nuclear Power Extension? German Energy Blog

Further Additional Tax for Nuclear Power Extension?
Published on July 16, 2010 in Environmental Politics and Nuclear. 0 Comments
Tags: AtG, nuclear power extension.
Apart from introducing a nuclear fuel rod tax in the amount of EUR 2.3 billion per year, the government is reportedly planning to raise an additional tax in return for an extension of the operating times of the German nuclear power plants. All in all, the government wants the operators to pay between EUR 4 to 5 billion annually.


With both taxes the government intends to skim off profits resulting from the extension of the operating times. While the nuclear fuel elements tax shall help to consolidate the budget, the proceeds of the new tax shall be used to promote renewable energy

Nuclear Energy is so profitable, the government will take the profit and poor it into Solar subsidies.

Solar Stocks Drop as Germany Proposes Solar Subsidy Cut - WSJ.com

Solar Stocks Drop as Germany Proposes Solar Subsidy Cut . Text By SHARA TIBKEN
NEW YORK -- Shares of solar stocks dropped Wednesday after the German government said it's proposing a 15% cut on subsidies to solar-power providers

14.6 GW of Solar PV in 2010 ? Catskill Clean Energy

Due to time restraints and paid adverstising on google I had to resort to what I hate the most, wikipedia.
Seems the green nuts are making a big deal out of a 15% cut in the billions of Euros in subsidies. I was hoping to find an amount to post as to how much money is paid to the Solar Energy plants.

Financial incentives for photovoltaics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Germany
As of 2009,[8][9] the legal framework is the German Renewable Energy Sources Act (Erneuerbare-Energien-Gesetz – EEG). The feed in tariff, in force since 1 August 2004, was modified in 2008. In view of the unexpectedly high growth rates, the depreciation was accelerated and a new category (>1000kWp) was created with a lower tariff. The facade premium was abolished. In Juli 2010, the Renewable Energy Sources Act was again amended to reduce the tariffs by a further 16% in addition to the normal annual depreciation, as the prices for PV-panels had dropped sharply in 2009

Feed-in Tariffs for post October 2010 installed panels (EUR/kWh)
System size
(kWp)
Ground
mounted
On buildings and
anti-noise walls

<30 0.2426 0.3303
30 to 100 0.2426 0.3142
100 to 1000 0.2426 0.2973
>1000 0.2426 0.2479

Contract duration 20 years, constant remuneration. New contracts will be lower in value in future years (decreasing by 9% default and a maximum of 13% per year). Degression will be accelerated or slowed down by one percentage point for every 1000MWp/a divergence from the target of 3500MWp/a.

 

[mdn2000]

Jiggs, where is the link, I followed three links you provided, than followed the links within the links, and found another link, that all led to "coloring boog graphics", we were speaking specifically of peak oil theory. I wont bother you to provide the theory, if you dont have, if you cant find it, so be it. I will let you off the hook.

I have a great idea, we can have feed-tariffs (higher electric rates) paid to Solar Power Plants, we can give Solar Power Plants huge subsidies, then if we tax nuclear power and demand they pay billions up front to operate we can take all that money and give it to the CEO's that operate the Solar Power Plants. The CEO's can get huge bonuses and become filthy rich while the people pay extra high prices for electricity.

If it was not for Nuclear power, Solar Power would never be built.

Further Additional Tax for Nuclear Power Extension? German Energy Blog

Further Additional Tax for Nuclear Power Extension?
Published on July 16, 2010 in Environmental Politics and Nuclear. 0 Comments
Tags: AtG, nuclear power extension.
Apart from introducing a nuclear fuel rod tax in the amount of EUR 2.3 billion per year, the government is reportedly planning to raise an additional tax in return for an extension of the operating times of the German nuclear power plants. All in all, the government wants the operators to pay between EUR 4 to 5 billion annually.


With both taxes the government intends to skim off profits resulting from the extension of the operating times. While the nuclear fuel elements tax shall help to consolidate the budget, the proceeds of the new tax shall be used to promote renewable energy

Nuclear Energy is so profitable, the government will take the profit and poor it into Solar subsidies.

Solar Stocks Drop as Germany Proposes Solar Subsidy Cut - WSJ.com

Solar Stocks Drop as Germany Proposes Solar Subsidy Cut . Text By SHARA TIBKEN
NEW YORK -- Shares of solar stocks dropped Wednesday after the German government said it's proposing a 15% cut on subsidies to solar-power providers

14.6 GW of Solar PV in 2010 ? Catskill Clean Energy

Due to time restraints and paid adverstising on google I had to resort to what I hate the most, wikipedia.
Seems the green nuts are making a big deal out of a 15% cut in the billions of Euros in subsidies. I was hoping to find an amount to post as to how much money is paid to the Solar Energy plants.

Financial incentives for photovoltaics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Germany
As of 2009,[8][9] the legal framework is the German Renewable Energy Sources Act (Erneuerbare-Energien-Gesetz – EEG). The feed in tariff, in force since 1 August 2004, was modified in 2008. In view of the unexpectedly high growth rates, the depreciation was accelerated and a new category (>1000kWp) was created with a lower tariff. The facade premium was abolished. In Juli 2010, the Renewable Energy Sources Act was again amended to reduce the tariffs by a further 16% in addition to the normal annual depreciation, as the prices for PV-panels had dropped sharply in 2009

Feed-in Tariffs for post October 2010 installed panels (EUR/kWh)
System size
(kWp)
Ground
mounted
On buildings and
anti-noise walls

<30 0.2426 0.3303
30 to 100 0.2426 0.3142
100 to 1000 0.2426 0.2973
>1000 0.2426 0.2479

Contract duration 20 years, constant remuneration. New contracts will be lower in value in future years (decreasing by 9% default and a maximum of 13% per year). Degression will be accelerated or slowed down by one percentage point for every 1000MWp/a divergence from the target of 3500MWp/a.

 

[Old Rocks]

King Hubbert was one of the premier geologists that the US has ever produced. His research and studies led to his theory of Peak Oil, and his predictions have been dead on.

King Hubbert : The peak petroleum and gaz

I. King Hubbert's searches on the oil peak of production (all resources).
1) Who is King Hubbert?
King Hubbert was born on October 5, 1903 to San Saba in Texas, he obtains his doctorate in Sciences in the university of Chicago in 1937, where he studies in parallel geology, physics and mathematics. He is senior analyst in 1942-1943 in Washington, he leads to it his first studies on the mineral resources.
King Hubbert works for Shell in Houston during 20 years, he is here a Geophysicist , then a director of the investigation and the production, and finally consultant chief of the geology. He leaves Shell in 1963.
He is also a Geophysicist of search to " US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY " and professor of geology and geophysics in Stanforde's university. He leaves Stanforde's university in 1968 and he returns in the university world in 1973, in Berkeley in California. He retires in 1976 quite in active remainder within "US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY ", He dies on October 15, 1989 at the age of 86 years.

2) " Hubbert's curve ".
"Hubbert's curve" allows to have a theoretical curve of the production of petroleum. The curve of the investigation in the same shape as that of the production, but the peak of the curve of the investigation arrives much earlier that that of the production. And so from the peak of the oil investigation in United States in 1930, it was able to predict the peak of production of the petroleum in this last one in 1970. Then it is from the peak of the world investigation of the 1970's that he anticipates the future oil peak of production. Wars and energy crises return this more chaotic curve in practice, but it does not change anything the tendency. Once the past peak of production, the thorough tendency will be for a decline of the long-term production, wars and crises will make only decrease or increase in the short run production, long-term it does not change anything.

 

[Old Rocks]

mdn, you silly ass, by the kw, nuclear is twice as expensive as wind, and present solar competes head on with nuclear. Were we spending as much on solar research as we spend on nuclear research, we would already have cheap 40%+ solar panels, and would be selling that technology to the rest of the world.