Solar energy is dead

[mdn2000]

Thats right, Solar is dead, non sustainable.

Seems someone forgot about the lack of water in the Arizona and California desert

http://ndep.nv.gov/news/temp_news/water093009.pdf

September 30, 2009
Alternative Energy Projects Stumble on a
Need for Water
By TODD WOODY

AMARGOSA VALLEY, Nev. — In a rural corner of Nevada reeling from the recession,
a bit of salvation seemed to arrive last year. A German developer, Solar Millennium,
announced plans to build two large solar farms here that would harness the sun to
generate electricity, creating hundreds of jobs.
But then things got messy. The company revealed that its preferred method of cooling the
power plants would consume 1.3 billion gallons of water a year, about 20 percent of this
desert valley’s available water.

In California, solar developers have already been forced to switch to less water-intensive
technologies when local officials have refused to turn on the tap. Other big solar projects
are mired in disputes with state regulators over water consumption.
To date, the flashpoint for such conflicts has been the Southwest, where dozens of
multibillion-dollar solar power plants are planned for thousands of acres of desert.

I think that is sufficient to begin. All solar power plants consume water, at the very least each plant must keep the mirrors or collectors clean of dust, there is a lot of dust in the desert. The water required to clean one solar power plant is millions of gallons of water.

Add the drought in California, the over use of the Colorado river, depleting the aquifers, the better use of water in agricultural food production.

Solar energy is dead.

 

[edthecynic]

Thats right, Solar is dead, non sustainable.

Seems someone forgot about the lack of water in the Arizona and California desert

http://ndep.nv.gov/news/temp_news/water093009.pdf

September 30, 2009
Alternative Energy Projects Stumble on a
Need for Water
By TODD WOODY

AMARGOSA VALLEY, Nev. — In a rural corner of Nevada reeling from the recession,
a bit of salvation seemed to arrive last year. A German developer, Solar Millennium,
announced plans to build two large solar farms here that would harness the sun to
generate electricity, creating hundreds of jobs.
But then things got messy. The company revealed that its preferred method of cooling the
power plants would consume 1.3 billion gallons of water a year, about 20 percent of this
desert valley’s available water.

In California, solar developers have already been forced to switch to less water-intensive
technologies when local officials have refused to turn on the tap. Other big solar projects
are mired in disputes with state regulators over water consumption.
To date, the flashpoint for such conflicts has been the Southwest, where dozens of
multibillion-dollar solar power plants are planned for thousands of acres of desert.

I think that is sufficient to begin. All solar power plants consume water, at the very least each plant must keep the mirrors or collectors clean of dust, there is a lot of dust in the desert. The water required to clean one solar power plant is millions of gallons of water.

Add the drought in California, the over use of the Colorado river, depleting the aquifers, the better use of water in agricultural food production.

Solar energy is dead.

Not hardly.

All that means is the SRECs will increase in price which will shorten the break even point for home owners who mount solar systems on their roof.

Go solar!

 

[Big Fitz]

Industrial scale solar is dead for another 40-75 years. Till the technology is improved to greater efficiency to compete with real power sources like Nuclear, Hydro and Coal.

You will never know for true how good it really is till they lose all subsidies.

BUT...

As a supplemental power supply for residential and light commercial and possibly light industrial (offices with small machinery) it's a great bonus to have. Slap those on the roofs of warehouses office buildings and houses, and it's a nice supplement.

 

[Oddball]

The hell you say?!?!?

You meant that them "green technology" thingies, that were supposed to be the panacea for all the world's energy needs, have unforeseen negative externalities?!?!?

Well, I'll be dipped!

 

[Big Black Dog]

Solar energy dead? What? The sun is going to quit shining or something?

 

[mdn2000]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

 

[Big Fitz]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

Ummm... Although I am no fan of green alternatives as they currently sit, I think you're pushing the water angle too hard. Piezoelectric cells require no water. Yes efficiency goes down if they are not kept clean, but... as much as you're saying? I'm finding it hard to believe.

It comes down to efficiency of solar energy extraction. The technology is not there and won't be up to snuff for another 40-75 years. You may make good supplemental energy is all. Nothing to base a power grid on, but can take the edge off your energy costs that will be worth it's while once you get government out of the way and let the free market do it's job on this technology.

 

[edthecynic]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

Waterless cleaning brush.
HowStuffWorks Videos "Living With Ed: Bill's Solar Brush"

Minimal water cleaning system
Kit Solar Panel Cleaning 7-12ft MrLongar - 1009

 

[mdn2000]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

Ummm... Although I am no fan of green alternatives as they currently sit, I think you're pushing the water angle too hard. Piezoelectric cells require no water. Yes efficiency goes down if they are not kept clean, but... as much as you're saying? I'm finding it hard to believe.

It comes down to efficiency of solar energy extraction. The technology is not there and won't be up to snuff for another 40-75 years. You may make good supplemental energy is all. Nothing to base a power grid on, but can take the edge off your energy costs that will be worth it's while once you get government out of the way and let the free market do it's job on this technology.

Green energy, renewable energy, does not exist, every form uses fossil fuels, large amounts of fossil fuels.

I guess if the technology wont be there for 40-75 years when should I check for your next post.

 

[Revere]

Green energy is the "flat earth" of our time.

The only way it works is if government imposes shortages by making you too poor to afford more than the limited quantities it is capable of producing.

 

[mdn2000]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

Waterless cleaning brush.
HowStuffWorks Videos "Living With Ed: Bill's Solar Brush"

Minimal water cleaning system
Kit Solar Panel Cleaning 7-12ft MrLongar - 1009

Without checking the links you have admitted water is needed.

Now we get to argue about how much.

You can use a waterless brush all you want, but eventually you will need water and chemicals to clean your panels.

Lots of labor involved cleaning solar panels on a roof, ladders, scaffolding, so every panel will be cleaned.

Water will have to be used, chemicals even better but too expensive.

In Los Angeles think lots of smog, much of Orange county, smog, Riverside county, some of the worst smog in the country, Palm Springs the same problem.

Commercial and Residential Solar panels on a large scale would be an environmental disaster.

The water impact for even the best scenario cleaning solution is unsustainable, impossible.

 

[edthecynic]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

Waterless cleaning brush.
HowStuffWorks Videos "Living With Ed: Bill's Solar Brush"

Minimal water cleaning system
Kit Solar Panel Cleaning 7-12ft MrLongar - 1009

Without checking the links you have admitted water is needed.

Now we get to argue about how much.

You can use a waterless brush all you want, but eventually you will need water and chemicals to clean your panels.

Lots of labor involved cleaning solar panels on a roof, ladders, scaffolding, so every panel will be cleaned.

Water will have to be used, chemicals even better but too expensive.

In Los Angeles think lots of smog, much of Orange county, smog, Riverside county, some of the worst smog in the country, Palm Springs the same problem.

Commercial and Residential Solar panels on a large scale would be an environmental disaster.

The water impact for even the best scenario cleaning solution is unsustainable, impossible.

A minimal amount of water is needed ONCE a year.

 

[Big Fitz]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

Ummm... Although I am no fan of green alternatives as they currently sit, I think you're pushing the water angle too hard. Piezoelectric cells require no water. Yes efficiency goes down if they are not kept clean, but... as much as you're saying? I'm finding it hard to believe.

It comes down to efficiency of solar energy extraction. The technology is not there and won't be up to snuff for another 40-75 years. You may make good supplemental energy is all. Nothing to base a power grid on, but can take the edge off your energy costs that will be worth it's while once you get government out of the way and let the free market do it's job on this technology.

Green energy, renewable energy, does not exist, every form uses fossil fuels, large amounts of fossil fuels.

I guess if the technology wont be there for 40-75 years when should I check for your next post.

No need to get snarky, I'm just saying that Solar is not dead, it's just not up to prime time. The energy extraction ratio of solar is for shit. I know that. But it is still good for some small scale things. It's that we are wasting incredible amounts of money on a technology that is 2 generations away from being viable. I'd rather see that money sunk into building nuke plants and expanding our ability to refine oil and other petroleum sources cheaply and quickly. We're at least 200 years away from running critically low on oil, and by then, we will definitely have another, preferable power source.

On a freak occurance, I have to agree with Ed for once. Lightning does strike it seems. There are other ways to clean and that's the beauty of the free market and capitalism. If something comes along that is bigger, better, faster, stronger, cheaper, more efficient... the market WILL throw trillions behind it and move on. Capitalism and innovation even works for this tech. Only if you don't fuck with the process.

 

[Revere]

Water kills Solar energy, it will always need water and that water will always be needed elsewhere.

On the top of your house, still need to clean it.

Further the financing is crippling. Pure stupidity to allow a company to put a 30,000$ lien on your house.

No matter where you put a solar panel you still need water to clean it. Last time I checked there is water rationing everywhere in California.

Where you going to get all that extra water? You cannot even water your lawn, you think you can water your roof?

On warehouses, with a crew washing the solar panels, during a drought, in a desert, when that water is needed for food. Too expensive to wash.

What about the environmental impact of using fossil fuels to pump extra water to households to wash solar panels. Even on a house, solar energy cannot exist without fossil energy to pump the water to clean hundreds of millions of solar panels.

Waterless cleaning brush.
HowStuffWorks Videos "Living With Ed: Bill's Solar Brush"

Minimal water cleaning system
Kit Solar Panel Cleaning 7-12ft MrLongar - 1009

Without checking the links you have admitted water is needed.

Now we get to argue about how much.

You can use a waterless brush all you want, but eventually you will need water and chemicals to clean your panels.

Lots of labor involved cleaning solar panels on a roof, ladders, scaffolding, so every panel will be cleaned.

Water will have to be used, chemicals even better but too expensive.

In Los Angeles think lots of smog, much of Orange county, smog, Riverside county, some of the worst smog in the country, Palm Springs the same problem.

Commercial and Residential Solar panels on a large scale would be an environmental disaster.

The water impact for even the best scenario cleaning solution is unsustainable, impossible.

There is no way you could get away with cleaning those panels in the areas you mention only once per year.

 

[Big Fitz]

Waterless cleaning brush.
HowStuffWorks Videos "Living With Ed: Bill's Solar Brush"

Minimal water cleaning system
Kit Solar Panel Cleaning 7-12ft MrLongar - 1009

Without checking the links you have admitted water is needed.

Now we get to argue about how much.

You can use a waterless brush all you want, but eventually you will need water and chemicals to clean your panels.

Lots of labor involved cleaning solar panels on a roof, ladders, scaffolding, so every panel will be cleaned.

Water will have to be used, chemicals even better but too expensive.

In Los Angeles think lots of smog, much of Orange county, smog, Riverside county, some of the worst smog in the country, Palm Springs the same problem.

Commercial and Residential Solar panels on a large scale would be an environmental disaster.

The water impact for even the best scenario cleaning solution is unsustainable, impossible.

There is no way you could get away with cleaning those panels in the areas you mention only once per year.

Very very true. I will say this I guess. I have more faith in our ability to invent and achieve solutions when we put our minds to it due to necessity.

Mother necessity... where would we be?

 

[Toro]

Famous last words.

Betting against green technologies is a bet against human and American ingenuity. Silicon Valley is pouring billions of dollars into green technologies. Don't know when they will become economically viable but economically viable they will become.

 

[mdn2000]

Ummm... Although I am no fan of green alternatives as they currently sit, I think you're pushing the water angle too hard. Piezoelectric cells require no water. Yes efficiency goes down if they are not kept clean, but... as much as you're saying? I'm finding it hard to believe.

It comes down to efficiency of solar energy extraction. The technology is not there and won't be up to snuff for another 40-75 years. You may make good supplemental energy is all. Nothing to base a power grid on, but can take the edge off your energy costs that will be worth it's while once you get government out of the way and let the free market do it's job on this technology.

Green energy, renewable energy, does not exist, every form uses fossil fuels, large amounts of fossil fuels.

I guess if the technology wont be there for 40-75 years when should I check for your next post.

No need to get snarky, I'm just saying that Solar is not dead, it's just not up to prime time. The energy extraction ratio of solar is for shit. I know that. But it is still good for some small scale things.

On a freak occurance, I have to agree with Ed for once. Lightning does strike it seems. There are other ways to clean and that's the beauty of the free market and capitalism. If something comes along that is bigger, better, faster, stronger, cheaper, more efficient... the market WILL throw trillions behind it and move on.

That is not snarky, its funny, I could not add "lol", that would of taken away the shock value when you read it and thus denied me the pleasure of your response. It was a joke in good humor, I intended the humor to be a bit dry.

I have specifically posted in opposition to the idea of Green, Renewable energy, these things are obviously being pushed onto us through law, power, and greed. There are major obstacles which most people are obviously not aware of.

Water for Solar is one problem which happens to be a permanent obstacle.

Solar on a small scale is not Green or Renewable energy, it never will be.

Politicians and government officials from washington to my small town are getting paid off, are passing laws and regulations mandating forms of power without even understanding they dont work.

Is California going to shove green energy down our throats no matter what the cost is.

The state of California is bankrupt, we are now a welfare state, we must import electricity to meet our need, the federal government is giving us billions, we are borrowing billions, this money pays the universities to produce the reports the USA Today gets to use for free, a report that is propaganda. The money goes to the California Air Research Board, the money goes to officials and bureaucrats, billions of dollars, and it is still not enough.

It has just begun.

California has collapsed, we are bankrupt.

We will have to see if the new governor addresses the problem or continuous to hide the problem like our current governor.

 

[mdn2000]

Famous last words.

Betting against green technologies is a bet against human and American ingenuity. Silicon Valley is pouring billions of dollars into green technologies. Don't know when they will become economically viable but economically viable they will become.

Its not a bet, Solar is dead in its tracks.

There is no water for solar.

Silicon Valley's history is a history of losing hundreds of billions in stocks. This is the bet, a pretty stupid one at that.

Silicon Valley also has a huge pollution problem which green technologies are creating.

Silicon Valley will help drag California under, but wait, is not the Obama administration pumping billions of dollars into Green energy.

I know they are loans, but what if these companies collapse, they are too important to fail, our future depends on Obama bailing out Silicon Valley and California.

Isnt that where all the bad rich people live and invest, California, rich politicians, rich corporations in silicon valley producing green energy.

 

[Revere]

Famous last words.

Betting against green technologies is a bet against human and American ingenuity. Silicon Valley is pouring billions of dollars into green technologies. Don't know when they will become economically viable but economically viable they will become.

That not exactly how ROI works.

 

[eagleseven]

I love saying the word piezoelectric.

Piezoelectric! Piezoelectric!