Socrates Faith in God the Creator in Socrates Own Words

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by JimBowie1958, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    ...but necessity was laid upon me—the word of God, I thought, ought to be considered first. ...but the truth is, O men of Athens, that God only is wise
    ...but in order that they may not appear to be at a loss, they repeat the ready-made charges which are used against all philosophers about teaching things up in the clouds and under the earth, and having no gods, and making the worse appear the better cause; for they do not like to confess that their pretence of knowledge has been detected—which is the truth: and as they are numerous and ambitious and energetic, and are all in battle array and have persuasive tongues, they have filled your ears with their loud and inveterate calumnies.

    ....Men of Athens, I honor and love you; but I shall obey God rather than you, and while I have life and strength I shall never cease from the practice and teaching of philosophy, exhorting anyone whom I meet after my manner, and convincing him, saying: O my friend, why do you who are a citizen of the great and mighty and wise city of Athens, care so much about laying up the greatest amount of money and honor and reputation, and so little about wisdom and truth and the greatest improvement of the soul, which you never regard or heed at all? Are you not ashamed of this?

    And if the person with whom I am arguing says: Yes, but I do care; I do not depart or let him go at once; I interrogate and examine and cross-examine him, and if I think that he has no virtue, but only says that he has, I reproach him with undervaluing the greater, and overvaluing the less. And this I should say to everyone whom I meet, young and old, citizen and alien, but especially to the citizens, inasmuch as they are my brethren.

    For this is the command of God, as I would have you know; and I believe that to this day no greater good has ever happened in the State than my service to the God. For I do nothing but go about persuading you all, old and young alike, not to take thought for your persons and your properties, but first and chiefly to care about the greatest improvement of the soul.

    I tell you that virtue is not given by money, but that from virtue come money and every other good of man, public as well as private. This is my teaching, and if this is the doctrine which corrupts the youth, my influence is ruinous indeed. But if anyone says that this is not my teaching, he is speaking an untruth.

    Wherefore, O men of Athens, I say to you, do as Anytus bids or not as Anytus bids, and either acquit me or not; but whatever you do, know that I shall never alter my ways, not even if I have to die many times.

    - Socrates

    The Apology of Socrates. Plato. 1909-14. The Apology, Phædo and Crito. The Harvard Classics

    Socrates was a believer, a preacher and shepherd of souls, not an atheist.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  2. The Irish Ram
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    The Irish Ram LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough

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    Wow. He described the Democrats with precision. Right down to the inveterate calumnies! ;)
     
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  3. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    I wouldnt say this ID's the Democrats so much as it describes a constituency of the Democrats, that being the secular extremists who are also hedonists of various sorts.
     
  4. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    and?
     
  5. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    ...and?

    Socrates believed in a Creator God who existed prior to the universe that He created, similar to the Jewish concept of God as Creator and not merely some tribal deity.

    What this demonstrates is the rational quality of the concept of God and that such concepts do not have to come by revelation but can also be understood by the simple use of reason.
     
  6. ima
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    ima BANNED

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    When Socrates lived, toilet paper hadn't even been invented yet. Simple reasoning could have figured that out.
     
  7. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    Socrates, much like Jesus, might have been a literary device made up to make an argument.

    In this case, Plato instead of St. Paul.

    Just because you would like there to be a God does not mean there is a God.
     
  8. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    No. You're right. There isnt a God because I want there to be. God is there whether I want Him to be or not. He's there whether you want Him to be or not. Faith or lack thereof doesnt establish or eliminate God's existence.

    I know there is a God because of personal experience. I sought the Lord and He revealed Himself to me through His Holy Spirit. I didn't know whether there really was a God when I started seeking. I didnt know how or in what way He could or would let me know if He was there. But when I learned it, I realized it was true and I could not deny it. I knew that when the Lord revealed the truth to me, I needed to change my life and live the Truth He was teaching me and not just drift in life.

    I would be a totally different person if God hadnt acted in my life. I can point to the very moment where I learned the Truth, and it completely changed the path I was on.

    You may doubt. I understand, I did once too. You may not believe. After all, these are my experiences, not yours. But it doesnt change the fact that I am telling the truth about my experiences. You can mock, belittle, deny, and I can't change what's happened to me, nor am I going to deny that it happened.

    All I can do is continue to reaffirm the truths I've learned through revelation, reason, and personal experience and hope and pray that someday you will seek the Lord to know the truth for yourself.
     
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  9. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    It is astonishing how utterly stupid that comment is, Ima. You genuinely surprize me with your idiocy on a regular basis.
     
  10. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    More idiocy from the village atheists.

    Dude, the whole fucking Greek world knew of Socrates and Plato, who tutored Alexander the great, tutored the king of Macedonia because he had a rep that stemmed from his being a leading student of Socrates. Had Socrates merely been an invention of Plato's no one would have given a flying fuck what Plato had to say in the first place.

    In other words, your comment is simply monkey rotted brain, shit flingingly stupid.

    Damn you are fucking stupid.

    Please, shut the fuck up and stop wasting our time.

    No duh, jack ass.

    Can anyone essplain to me how these stupid fucking people manage to get around without killing themselves from their own grotesque fucktardedness?
     

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