Socialized medicine does not work...

[NCC1701]

So sayeth the dumb liar

I'm done with you... You have run out of gas and all you have left is crude ad hominem attacks, I have no time for such puerile nonsense. g'day,

what a dipshit, he hurls a one liner at me, so I hurl one back then he pretends to be 'above it all'

You have to be really stupid to be a socialist, then be a liar to defend it. JQ epitomizes the way of the socilaitst

Exactly. He did the same to me, multiple times. He'll scream endless insults, and then the moment you throw one of his own insults, back at him.... his panties get all bunched up, and he starts clutching his purse and moaning about how he's better than insults.

Hypocrisy: Hallmark of the left wing.

You did a beautiful job and have way more patience than I do. The second I detect dishonesty then real discussion is impossible, a detailed logical argument backed up by real data is useless when the other guy is intellectually dishonest.

Think about it, there are actually people like JQ who think Cuba is something to follow. A place where doctors are paid shit and at government gunpoint produce a few 'outcomes' so socialists can say 'see, it works'. We are still having this discussion in 2017, people really are scary.

Well it has to do with "feeling" your way through life like a child, rather than "thinking" your way through life like an adult.

Many people are completely duped and indoctrinated by left-wing propaganda, because it 'feels' good. Michael Morons Sicko movie, felt right. If there was any truth to the film whatsoever, then Cuban exiles that still to this day, could easily be interviewed by Michael Moron, to determine how amazing the health care is.

But of course that requires thinking your way through an issue, rather than 'feeling' your way.

That left-wing is an entire ideology of a 5-year-old.

Well said, and I would go further, liberalism is a religion. Government is their god and they have many dogmas they hold onto with the exact same fervor as a muslim drools over mohammed. Their reaction to Trump is proof. There is some science behind this, they way we store and hold beliefs.

 

[Juicin]

Uhhh health care is the one area Americans are not best at

We pay double for the same care canadians get. Same with the French, Brits, and Germans. We spend just under 20% of GDP on healthcare when the treatment we receive* is not substantively different than societies who spend half that.

The only time you'd want to be in America is for some experimental procedure only an obscene amount of money can buy or luck can get you into the program.

Healthcare is so fucking out of whack here people go to fucking Tijuana to get medical procedures. Pretty much says it all right there, Americans going to fucking mexico for healthcare

17 of the top 20 hospitals on the planet were rated here in the states, that commonwealth survey found US care better than Sweden and France, so they invented a dishonest 'healthy lives' metric to make France and Sweden better


I would not call it equal at all, US is probably better. The reason we pay so much is that you libs demand that everyone gets that superior care, and you seem to like scumbag trial attorneys.

it's too bad we're a nation of 300 million and most Americans will never see those hospitals even if they needed it

We pay double for the same outcomes, that is not great healthcare. It's barely mediocre considering what it costs.

Public healthcare is good enough for senators, it's good enough for you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I broke my ankle hiking in Nova Scotia a while ago.

Went to a hospital and got fixed up in under two hours. On the way out, they reluctantly gave me a bill for $125 because I was not a citizen.

I wonder what it would have cost here in the states.

You are not paying the taxes of Canada. If you lived in Canada you would be paying tens of thousands to pay for those hospitals.

You are comparing upfront cost, to a massive life long tax bill? Not comparable.

Just finished my 2016 tax return. Between my wife and me, we pull in just shy of 6 figures. we pay 19% tax. Yeah, crippling.

You DO realize that if you think your taxes should be more than they are, you can simply write a check to the government without imposing your asinine views of what's "fair" on the rest of us, right?

 

[Andylusion]

Uhhh health care is the one area Americans are not best at

We pay double for the same care canadians get. Same with the French, Brits, and Germans. We spend just under 20% of GDP on healthcare when the treatment we receive* is not substantively different than societies who spend half that.

The only time you'd want to be in America is for some experimental procedure only an obscene amount of money can buy or luck can get you into the program.

Healthcare is so fucking out of whack here people go to fucking Tijuana to get medical procedures. Pretty much says it all right there, Americans going to fucking mexico for healthcare

17 of the top 20 hospitals on the planet were rated here in the states, that commonwealth survey found US care better than Sweden and France, so they invented a dishonest 'healthy lives' metric to make France and Sweden better


I would not call it equal at all, US is probably better. The reason we pay so much is that you libs demand that everyone gets that superior care, and you seem to like scumbag trial attorneys.

it's too bad we're a nation of 300 million and most Americans will never see those hospitals even if they needed it

We pay double for the same outcomes, that is not great healthcare. It's barely mediocre considering what it costs.

Public healthcare is good enough for senators, it's good enough for you.

Three problems with your first statement....

First, years ago there was some lady who got a bad cancer, and found that the absolute best place to go for this specific type of cancer, was the Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinton doesn't take Medicare, so she had to pay with cash. She sold some stuff, saved like crazy, and raise money from her family and church, and paid for the treatment, and was cured.

So when you said "they'll never see those hospitals", you don't know that. You assume that, because it fits with your ideology. But it's not a fact.

Second, you said that our people can't see those best hospitals in the world. The fact is, the people all over the rest of the world, are the ones who actually can't see the best hospitals... because the best hospitals are HERE. Not there.

Third, we have to ask the questions, so why are the best hospitals here? And the answer is because our system is not as socialized and government controlled as their systems are.

Point being, if we adopt their socialized system, we won't have those best hospitals in the world anymore.

To your last claim, you said "Public healthcare is good enough for senators"....

But it's not. Routinely around the world, people in leadership constantly escape their own systems, and seek health care from capitalists free-market hospitals, not the public ones.

I realize that you seem to have just started posting on this thread, but if you had been here for the last 26 pages, we have posted numerous examples of people in government, legislators, parliament members, and others, who have ditched their public health care system, to get treatment elsewhere.

And given that most of them have all their health expenses covered by the tax payers, the purpose wasn't to save money, which is the key reason Americans look for health care outside the US. The key reason is, their public health care system sucks, and they want good quality treatment.

So no, the public healthcare system isn't 'good enough' for government people that promote government health care.

And Finally, to your claim about cost.

This claim is true. However, I have already pointed out dozens of reasons why this is. Government is the reason our health care costs are so high. You are demanding more of the poison that is damaging the system, is if getting a higher dose of poison will cure us. That's ridiculous.

Moreover, you seem to ignore the fact that the quality of health care is lower in all those places around the world.

I don't know why this is a hard concept. When you get to super high end technology, the cost is exponentially higher.

Getting from a survival rate of 50% to 80%, costs very little. The technologies used to achieve that, have been around for ages, and are relatively cheap. But as you keep trying to improve the quality, the price goes up. Going from an 80% survival rate to a 90% survival rate, is highly expensive, because the newer equipment. When you go from 90% to 95%, you are talking about bleeding edge, highest end stuff.

Think about computers. The original Core i7 intel CPU, now goes for $20. Of course the newest Core i7 goes for almost $3,000. The difference between a $15 computer from the 1980s, and a Core i7, is $5. But the difference between a Core i7 from 2008, to 2017 is $2,995.

Point is, if health care systems around the world, set their standard level of care, at the level the US had 10 years ago, they will be difference in quality of care will not be that large, but the difference in price will be massive.

Let me give you are more direct example. Take a mammogram machine. They currently come in three main types. Film, 2D Digital, and 3D Digital. The film type is the oldest. You can get one for $50,000, down to $20,000. The 2D Digital type, is up near $200,000. And the 3D Digital type, is up near $500,000.

Now what's the difference in quality of the results?

Digital Mammography vs. Film Mammograms | Susan G. Komen®

The randomized clinical trial, showed accuracy went from 63% to 77%.

That means that a crappy low quality health care system, with a low cost $20,000 film based mammogram machine from 20 years ago, or even a used machine for $10,000, will reach roughly 63% accuracy. While our 77% for a bran new digital mammogram machine that costs $200,000 or more.

Do you get my point now? To get the best care, you are going to pay the highest prices for the bleeding edge technology. That's true about EVERYTHING.

Part of the reason we pay more for health care, is due to government, but the other part is that we get the best possible care. Other countries don't do that. In fact in many countries, they are using the old used equipment, that our doctors consider obsolete, and don't use.

 

[Political Junky]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

 

[Andylusion]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

You have the right to be wrong for a long as you want.

 

[Political Junky]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

You have the right to be wrong for a long as you want.

You'd have to read to know it works.

 

[Political Junky]

I'm done with you... You have run out of gas and all you have left is crude ad hominem attacks, I have no time for such puerile nonsense. g'day,

what a dipshit, he hurls a one liner at me, so I hurl one back then he pretends to be 'above it all'

You have to be really stupid to be a socialist, then be a liar to defend it. JQ epitomizes the way of the socilaitst

Exactly. He did the same to me, multiple times. He'll scream endless insults, and then the moment you throw one of his own insults, back at him.... his panties get all bunched up, and he starts clutching his purse and moaning about how he's better than insults.

Hypocrisy: Hallmark of the left wing.

You did a beautiful job and have way more patience than I do. The second I detect dishonesty then real discussion is impossible, a detailed logical argument backed up by real data is useless when the other guy is intellectually dishonest.

Think about it, there are actually people like JQ who think Cuba is something to follow. A place where doctors are paid shit and at government gunpoint produce a few 'outcomes' so socialists can say 'see, it works'. We are still having this discussion in 2017, people really are scary.

Well it has to do with "feeling" your way through life like a child, rather than "thinking" your way through life like an adult.

Many people are completely duped and indoctrinated by left-wing propaganda, because it 'feels' good. Michael Morons Sicko movie, felt right. If there was any truth to the film whatsoever, then Cuban exiles that still to this day, could easily be interviewed by Michael Moron, to determine how amazing the health care is.

But of course that requires thinking your way through an issue, rather than 'feeling' your way.

That left-wing is an entire ideology of a 5-year-old.

Well said, and I would go further, liberalism is a religion. Government is their god and they have many dogmas they hold onto with the exact same fervor as a muslim drools over mohammed. Their reaction to Trump is proof. There is some science behind this, they way we store and hold beliefs.

An oddity for sure, a con who believes in science.

 

[Andylusion]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

You have the right to be wrong for a long as you want.

You'd have to read to know it works.

It is specifically because I read, and apparently you don't, that I know it doesn't work.

 

[Mindful]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

It's not working very well in the UK. An overloaded system, teetering on the financial brink.

 

[yiostheoy]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

It's not working very well in the UK. An overloaded system, teetering on the financial brink.

Nothing is working in the UK.

So that's no reason to blame healthcare there.

 

[Mindful]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

It's not working very well in the UK. An overloaded system, teetering on the financial brink.

Nothing is working in the UK.

So that's no reason to blame healthcare there.

Who's blaming it? I'm not.

 

[Political Junky]

Trump campaigned on universal healthcare .. care for everyone.
The GOP has massaged that into access for everyone.

 

[Andylusion]

Trump campaigned on universal healthcare .. care for everyone.
The GOP has massaged that into access for everyone.

I didn't pick Trump. That's one of the reasons.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Socialized Medicine works in every civilized country except the US where it works for Medicare.

Knowing what I do about Medicare, not to mention healthcare in "every civilized country", I really have to question your definition of "works".