Socialized healthcare Good or Bad, you decide

[Itsmethatguy]

what your forgetting is healthcare is a business. it makes us feel warm and fuzzy that healthcare is to help us and we should care about peoples illnesses, but when it comes done to it, healthcare is a business. im sure if doctors didnt have to worry about bills, they would do it for free, but thats not the case. would you enjoy going to school all those years, and seeing all those patients for free? of course you would want a profit for yourself. to complain about people making profit off of healthcare, well thats just silly. how about next we'll start complaining that mcdonalds is making to much money off of the fat people, or movie companies are making to much money off of crappy films. to use profit as an arguement is a weak one, but for you seems to be your strongest point. let me ask you this, would you rather wait 4 months for a mri or pay for one that day? im not a rich man by any means but i can tell you this im not waiting 2 to 8 months for a test that will take a small portion of the day. yes healthcare does have problems we need to address, but this is going to be one of americas most costly mistakes if it goes through.

 

[Itsmethatguy]

you tax the rich, they take their money and go somewhere else cause they can and have the money to do it. they get taxed on owning business's more than their used to paying businesses go to other countries, more job loss, longer recession, reagan proved this already. flat tax, thats what should be implemented. everyone pays a fair sum. also if the tax money was spent correctly in the first place there would be no more raised taxes.

 

[sealybobo]

Social security is a wonderful program. The politicians are robbing from it. Thats the problem. Maybe we can put this money in a lockbox.

The GOP didn't just say government sucks, they proved it. Yes, I do fear what the GOP would do to socialized healthcare. They might turn into the CEO's who deny us care so they can spend more on defense.

But, then I think about medicare. Its not bad. Do you think we should end medicare because politicians suck?

PS. For Profits have done more harm than the politicians could ever possibly do. All the scare tactics aimed at killing the single payer plan forget that fact. And they are costing us so much that more and more of us can't afford it and that number is growing. How long until you can't afford it? What then?

And not everyone is insured. They cost twice as much as they should and not everyone is insured. How smart is that?

But see thats just it....do you think they will keep their hands out of the money in the health care cookie jar? I dont.

I don't deny our system has some serious issues, i just dont think it would be smart for us as americans to trust the same dirtbags who robbed social security with our health and well-being.

Chances are if we put the govt in charge the system will either become broken or even more expensive than it already is. At least that is the experience we have all shared as americans when the govt tries to do things for us.

Nice response BTW

Social security has problems, not just because they rob from it, but also because we have more people drawing from it than are paying into it.

With heallthcare, everyone pays in. If poor people don't and kids don't, the rich will make up for that.

And I understand your fear of government run anything. But the fact still remains that this shouldn't be in for profit hands.

And all the fears you have about this, people feared the same thing about medicare. And medicare isn't perfect. But ask any senior if they want to put medicare in the private for profit's hands and see what they say. Ask them if they prefer a co-op.

 

[Itsmethatguy]

again with the weak profits arguement.

 

[sealybobo]

you tax the rich, they take their money and go somewhere else cause they can and have the money to do it. they get taxed on owning business's more than their used to paying businesses go to other countries, more job loss, longer recession, reagan proved this already. flat tax, thats what should be implemented. everyone pays a fair sum. also if the tax money was spent correctly in the first place there would be no more raised taxes.

Ah! You guys over use the threats of jobs losses and "taking your toys home if we don't play your way"

They are taking their business' to other countries now because they don't have to pay healthcare there but do here. And labor is cheaper there too. So no matter what, you'll keep asking us workers to give up more and more and more until we make as much as chinese or mexican workers.

We're the only country that screws companies by making them provide healthcare.

And funny you are worrying about jobs going overseas now. Little late, don't you think? Their already there. And we don't make anything in America anymore, so any manufacturer has already left thanks to the GOP and NAFTA that YES Clinton signed. So the only jobs in America are service jobs. Do you want fries with that? So how you gonna send that job overseas?

So the rich won't leave because they own companies and we are about to take this cost of their companies plates. Problem solved.

 

[sealybobo]

what your forgetting is healthcare is a business. it makes us feel warm and fuzzy that healthcare is to help us and we should care about peoples illnesses, but when it comes done to it, healthcare is a business. im sure if doctors didnt have to worry about bills, they would do it for free, but thats not the case. would you enjoy going to school all those years, and seeing all those patients for free? of course you would want a profit for yourself. to complain about people making profit off of healthcare, well thats just silly. how about next we'll start complaining that mcdonalds is making to much money off of the fat people, or movie companies are making to much money off of crappy films. to use profit as an arguement is a weak one, but for you seems to be your strongest point. let me ask you this, would you rather wait 4 months for a mri or pay for one that day? im not a rich man by any means but i can tell you this im not waiting 2 to 8 months for a test that will take a small portion of the day. yes healthcare does have problems we need to address, but this is going to be one of americas most costly mistakes if it goes through.

Don't confuse the doctors who deliver the service and the for profits in the middle that are the ones ruining the system.

I heard a doctor talking about why the for profits came to be in the beginning. Doctors wanted to be doctors so they hired the insurance providers to handle the paperwork. But like government, they got too big and bloated and they are a wasteful beurocracy now.

And every lie they put out to scare us into why we need them. Just like we need the private for profit bankers running our federal reserve and we need for profit defense companies like blackwater fighting our wars.

 

[Itsmethatguy]

So your arguement of keeping mcdonalds here is why rich people wont go overseas......right. your right companies are now going overseas with their business's, and yes because of taxes and healthcare, we are also one of the few countries that doesnt have socialized healthcare. we have a choice to take what our company is offering for healthcare or get our own. your problem is the cost of healthcare. theire are free clinics you know. take away a companies drive to make medicine that works and what do we have? placebos and tylenol. if anything, we should go after the insurance companies and not allow them to give kick backs and such. that right there will help the healthcare system so much. see sealy your not looking for socialized healthcare, your looking for our healthcare to become better. i hear you on that and i agree, but socialized healthcare is not the answer. going after the insurance companies and other greedy entities.

 

[sealybobo]

So your arguement of keeping mcdonalds here is why rich people wont go overseas......right. your right companies are now going overseas with their business's, and yes because of taxes and healthcare, we are also one of the few countries that doesnt have socialized healthcare. we have a choice to take what our company is offering for healthcare or get our own. your problem is the cost of healthcare. theire are free clinics you know. take away a companies drive to make medicine that works and what do we have? placebos and tylenol. if anything, we should go after the insurance companies and not allow them to give kick backs and such. that right there will help the healthcare system so much. see sealy your not looking for socialized healthcare, your looking for our healthcare to become better. i hear you on that and i agree, but socialized healthcare is not the answer. going after the insurance companies and other greedy entities.

Right. The Doctors are still for profit. We just remove the very very costly middle men.

Healthcare should not be controlled by for profits, just like war should not be faught by for profits. Not to go off topic, but do you think Blackwater or Haloburton want the iraq war to end? Fuck no.

 

[Itsmethatguy]

doctors are always going to be for profit, just like you working at your job is going to be fore profit. like i said in my earlier posts, healthcare is a business. do you want to be stitching people up or removing a lung for minium wage? no, neither do these doctors. but i do agree if you take out the special interests groups, i.e. insurance companies, pharm. companies, and you dont allow them to drop patients untill they stop paying, no kick backs, etc. then thats when our healthcare starts to get better. comparing war to healthcare is comparing apples to oranges. off topic, if ron paul was president, we'd be better off.

 

[Zoom-boing]

So your arguement of keeping mcdonalds here is why rich people wont go overseas......right. your right companies are now going overseas with their business's, and yes because of taxes and healthcare, we are also one of the few countries that doesnt have socialized healthcare. we have a choice to take what our company is offering for healthcare or get our own. your problem is the cost of healthcare. theire are free clinics you know. take away a companies drive to make medicine that works and what do we have? placebos and tylenol. if anything, we should go after the insurance companies and not allow them to give kick backs and such. that right there will help the healthcare system so much. see sealy your not looking for socialized healthcare, your looking for our healthcare to become better. i hear you on that and i agree, but socialized healthcare is not the answer. going after the insurance companies and other greedy entities.

Right. The Doctors are still for profit. We just remove the very very costly middle men.

Healthcare should not be controlled by for profits, just like war should not be faught by for profits. Not to go off topic, but do you think Blackwater or Haloburton want the iraq war to end? Fuck no.

And replace them with a new, even more costly, middle-man . . . the government.

 

[Citizen]

If the way the government is taking care of our vets, through the vetrans administration, is any example of government run health care, count me out.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

If the way the government is taking care of our vets, through the vetrans administration, is any example of government run health care, count me out.

 

[Political Junky]

Sealy I'm not going to try and tear down your statements or claim you are wrong

Instead I'm going to present you with a small challenge.

Explain to me how it is a smart Idea to put the same govt that can not make our social security program solvent in charge of health care.

Social Security is a simple savings plan and the reps/dems can't even handle that without making it bankrupt and insolvent. So how can you expect the majority of americans to trust them to run health care for us?

I mean just look at the system they set up http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

They can't handle a savings account but think they can handle that? here is a small pic of the govt's propsal.

American Medical Association backs House health bill | Special Coverage | Reuters

The American Medical Association backs the House plan.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Sealy I'm not going to try and tear down your statements or claim you are wrong

Instead I'm going to present you with a small challenge.

Explain to me how it is a smart Idea to put the same govt that can not make our social security program solvent in charge of health care.

Social Security is a simple savings plan and the reps/dems can't even handle that without making it bankrupt and insolvent. So how can you expect the majority of americans to trust them to run health care for us?

I mean just look at the system they set up http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

They can't handle a savings account but think they can handle that? here is a small pic of the govt's propsal.

American Medical Association backs House health bill | Special Coverage | Reuters

The American Medical Association backs the House plan.

And isn't the AMA involved in our current health care system too?

The AMA backing it does not give me any added confidence in the govt's capablility to run it.