Socialistic Nations = Happiest People

[catzmeow]

World's Happiest Places

I find this study very interesting. I've always been a free market capitalist, but find myself wondering if America's emphasis on work, above all else, is really working for us, or healthy.

Is work more important than life? Or do these northern European countries know something we don't? Have they learned to balance work and life in a way that we haven't?

I think the question we have to ask ourselves, as a country is: "Is the American way of life working for the vast majority of Americans?" I'm not sure, and I don't have any answers, but thought I'd share.

 

[DiamondDave]

And you find people who say that poor people are the happiest people...

Don't mean I want to strive to be poor or be in a country that strives towards socialism

 

[catzmeow]

And you find people who say that poor people are the happiest people...

Don't mean I want to strive to be poor or be in a country that strives towards socialism

Do you have a response that results from actually reading the article in question, or are meaningless platitudes all we can expect from you?

We hear, repeatedly, how socialism = bad. It's practically modern American dogma. But, it appears to me that those countries simultaneously have some of the HIGHEST productivity levels AND the highest happiness levels. So, the standard response that socialism kills personal motivation appears to be false.

Maybe, people can be MORE productive when they aren't walking around with a toothache or in chronic pain because they can't afford health or dental care? It's a thought I am having more often these days, spending most of my time working with poor people.

 

[DiamondDave]

And you find people who say that poor people are the happiest people...

Don't mean I want to strive to be poor or be in a country that strives towards socialism

Do you have a response that results from actually reading the article in question, or are meaningless platitudes all we can expect from you?

We hear, repeatedly, how socialism = bad. It's practically modern American dogma. But, it appears to me that those countries simultaneously have some of the HIGHEST productivity levels AND the highest happiness levels. So, the standard response that socialism kills personal motivation appears to be false.

Maybe, people can be MORE productive when they aren't walking around with a toothache or in chronic pain because they can't afford health or dental care? It's a thought I am having more often these days, spending most of my time working with poor people.

It's a freaking article... not the law of God or a 100% accurate piece of research

My response.. I enjoy the positives and negatives of my freedom more than I enjoy thinking that others exist to take care of personal responsibilities of those who don't take care of themselves

 

[editec]

American is currently flummoxed by a myth that we've taken to heart.

The myth of the almightly individual.

Now it is very convenient for those on top of the heap to keep driving that myth into the zietgiest since by doing so, they insure that people don't get together and take down the ediface of lies that keep so many of us fearful.

Up here in this neck of the woods of Maine, I can take you to people who live on welfare who vote Republican and who swear that unions are the worst thing in the world even though most of them have never been involved with a union and few of them have ever worked for anything but minimum wage.

Such confused thinking is, I think typical of a people who have been fed complete nonsense by the media.

Most of these types have thousands of dollars worth of guns which they are sure they're going to need when the BLACK uprising happens and all those urban minorities (who are also all collectivists) come to Waldo county to steal their doublewides and rape their (second fattest in the USA) women.

If their confused attitude wasn't so tragically ignorant, and wasn't making them into perfect tools for the people who have nothing but contempt for them, it'd actually be funny.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

And you find people who say that poor people are the happiest people...

Don't mean I want to strive to be poor or be in a country that strives towards socialism

Socialism is NOT a place with only poor people. I lived in Europe and saw many people with plenty of money, but of course someone tries to make it out to be this awful thing and then the idiots in this country believe you.

And btw, no Socialist country has nearly the amount of poor people we do

 

[Lucklaster]

I sure wouldn't call myself a socialist, but my interpretation of the clause in the preamble "promote the general welfare" is for government to attempt to do the most good for the most people. If it caters only to the self interests of a select social class, it fails in this regard, and if the perception exists within a society that the odds are stacked in favor of the elites, then many people will run around with a chip on their shoulder even if they are relatively well off compared to the most impoverished people of the world. It isn't wealth per se, but the distribution of such that is at the heart of why Americans are not up there with the Danes and Swedes and whatnot.

I'm a firm believer in a strong and vibrant middle class, and the economic trends in this country have been away from such ever since Reagan's voodoo economics. I think if we could ever get back to the ethos where we sought to build a more vibrant middle class and gave people more of a stake in their lives, I think we would see happiness levels increase. A good start might be to support small business. In 1960, people shopped at their local grocer, pharmacy or hardware store and the people running these businesses had, not only a stake in their lives, but a stake in their community. Today, people shop at walmart or Home depot, and the grunts working at these places have neither. If government could assume the role of helping to level the playing field insted of being inthe hip pocket of big business, I think the general level of happiness would increase.

 

[WillowTree]

And you find people who say that poor people are the happiest people...

Don't mean I want to strive to be poor or be in a country that strives towards socialism

Do you have a response that results from actually reading the article in question, or are meaningless platitudes all we can expect from you?

We hear, repeatedly, how socialism = bad. It's practically modern American dogma. But, it appears to me that those countries simultaneously have some of the HIGHEST productivity levels AND the highest happiness levels. So, the standard response that socialism kills personal motivation appears to be false.

Maybe, people can be MORE productive when they aren't walking around with a toothache or in chronic pain because they can't afford health or dental care? It's a thought I am having more often these days, spending most of my time working with poor people.

Perfect example,, We want dental care just like Great Britain has don't we? Can't fucking wait!

 

[DiamondDave]

I sure wouldn't call myself a socialist, but my interpretation of the clause in the preamble "promote the general welfare" is for government to attempt to do the most good for the most people. If it caters only to the self interests of a select social class, it fails in this regard, and if the perception exists within a society that the odds are stacked in favor of the elites, then many people will run around with a chip on their shoulder even if they are relatively well off compared to the most impoverished people of the world. It isn't wealth per se, but the distribution of such that is at the heart of why Americans are not up there with the Danes and Swedes and whatnot.

I'm a firm believer in a strong and vibrant middle class, and the economic trends in this country have been away from such ever since Reagan's voodoo economics. I think if we could ever get back to the ethos where we sought to build a more vibrant middle class and gave people more of a stake in their lives, I think we would see happiness levels increase. A good start might be to support small business. In 1960, people shopped at their local grocer, pharmacy or hardware store and the people running these businesses had, not only a stake in their lives, but a stake in their community. Today, people shop at walmart or Home depot, and the grunts working at these places have neither. If government could assume the role of helping to level the playing field insted of being inthe hip pocket of big business, I think the general level of happiness would increase.

Promote the general welfare does not go towards promoting or entitling more of the individual wants and needs of the most people.. it promotes the general welfare of a populous as a whole.. we were set up to have the personal freedoms to succeed or fail by our own merits, and securing those personal freedoms as a country... you ensure everyone has the liberty to operate to provide for themselves, not ensuring that you squelch the freedoms of some to take care of the personal needs of others by an all controlling government

 

[editec]

"Promote the general welfare" means whatever those in charge says it means.

That's why selecting the people in charge is so damned important and why how we fund the campaigns of those running for office is so damned important, too.

What we have now virtually assures us that both parties are going to define the general welfare as that which benefits those who support their poltical careers and beyond.

 

[JBeukema]

Social Democracy =/= Socialism =/= a socialized Republic =/= Neosocialism

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Here's the other thing about these socialistic countries: they don't worry about being thrown out in the street, they don't worry about bankruptcy because of medical bills, they get at least a month of vacation a year, they don't work 40 hours a week, they get time off for all sort of reasons, and money isn't the most important thing in the world, like it is here for many people. Yet most people in these socialist countries have a lifestyle that is equal materially to people living in the US.

Sounds nice to me. I'd love not to miss much of my children's childhoods because I have to work so much just to keep a job so I can support them. I'd love to have the opportunity to travel or take lots of time off to deal with my personal life. I get one week a year right now. One week! That is enough time to do jack squat! I work 81/2 to 9 hours a day and some weekends. And I'm getting a 3% pay cut. Its as if my life revolves around my job and my personal life is whatever I can get after work. I'm not happy and don't feel healthy at all, struggling to cope and just barely managing to get by.

 

[catzmeow]

Sounds nice to me. I'd love not to miss much of my children's childhoods because I have to work so much just to keep a job so I can support them. I'd love to have the opportunity to travel or take lots of time off to deal with my personal life. I get one week a year right now. One week! That is enough time to do jack squat! I work 81/2 to 9 hours a day and some weekends. And I'm getting a 3% pay cut. Its as if my life revolves around my job and my personal life is whatever I can get after work. I'm not happy and don't feel healthy at all, struggling to cope and just barely managing to get by.

At the midway point of my life, I am now looking forward to saying goodbye to my kids in a few short years. It's a shame that I had to spend so much of their childhoods working so damn hard to establish myself professionally, and not seeing as much of them as I'd have liked. And now, as they are on their way out, I can finally have the freedom to do more with them. It's a delicate balance.

And, in this downward slope of my life, I don't see myself saying, "Gosh, I wish I'd worked more." I wish I'd been able to spend more time with my kids.

I wish every kid in America was in a good school, so I wouldn't have had to make enough money to live in an expensive neighborhood so they could attend a high quality public school. I wish every American had access to health care so that kids in my community weren't trying to attend school with aching teeth every day. I wish families weren't bankrupted because a mom gets breast cancer. I wish every kid had what i've had to work so hard to give my kids.

Maybe we're doing it wrong.

 

[editec]

We do not need to become a socialist nation to live well. Capitalism is more than able to help us work together to produce and distribute wealth in a way which most of us would think is sensible and fair, too.

We do need to remember that the pupose of being a member of a civil society is to gain the benefits of being in it though.

According to the monsters (and their idiot minions who so often grace us with their thoughts on this subject) the pupose of our government is

1. To have military; and
2. To have a police force so that they will protect other people's property

That's it folks.

That really is all some of these people think a goverment is supposed to be doing.

Everything else is, according to their read on the subject, a violation of the Constitution.

They are not exactly the world's deepest social thinkers, know what I mean?

The whole cause and effect thing, as it regards society and what happens when they spin out of control, is a bit beyond their ability to envision.

So their every response to every problem generally involves draconian responses usually involving putting people in jail or vaporzing them or somehow forcing them to go along with the program.

The irony is that these people think they love freedom.

No, what they seem to love is order, when order means that they benefit from a civil society without having to pay for it.

Read the libertopian fairy tale Atlas Shugged and you'll get a fairly good idea of how confused they are about human nature, the individual's place in soceity, and how societies actually function.

Their belief that the maket can solve every ill is as misguided as the communists' belief that government can solve every ill.

Simple minds seek simply solutions because they lack the resolve to look deeply at how complex the problems every society faces really are.

 

[auditor0007]

World's Happiest Places

I find this study very interesting. I've always been a free market capitalist, but find myself wondering if America's emphasis on work, above all else, is really working for us, or healthy.

Is work more important than life? Or do these northern European countries know something we don't? Have they learned to balance work and life in a way that we haven't?

I think the question we have to ask ourselves, as a country is: "Is the American way of life working for the vast majority of Americans?" I'm not sure, and I don't have any answers, but thought I'd share.

All but one of those countries, Switzerland, leans more to the socialist side of the spectrum. Switzerland actually is closer to the our philosophy of a more limited government. At our current rate however, we will become more like the rest of those socialist type countries than Switzerland.

The fact is that overall, the socialist philosophy provides a better life for everyone. The safety net is much greater, and so their is a smaller portion of less well to do or impoverished in those systems. Everything is wonderful. People don't need to work quite as hard as we do, and they have more leisure time. It really is a nice way of life.

Unfortunately, reality is beginning to set in. This form of governance is not sustainable. We think we have problems with SS and Medicare? Those countries are going to hit a brick wall before too long. Why is it that these countries are allowing massive immigration of Muslims? Because they don't have anyone left to make the economy grow. The only problem is, all those immigrants are just adding to the existing dole, making matters even worse.

As their population grows older, and they refuse to replace that population with hard working individuals, the tax base is evaporating. While we in the US are facing a rough road ahead, due to our aging population, those countries are in dire straits. All one need do is look at Japan. While Japan is not on that list, these countries have the same problem that Japan does. They don't have enough young people to support their aging population. This is why Japan is paying young couples $10,000 to $15,000 for every child they have. They're paying young people to make babies.

When these countries finally do hit this brick wall, that lifestyle they so enjoy will come to a crashing end, and that isn't too far down the road. People like Sarkozy see this already, and that is why he is trying to increase working hours and reduce benefits, because he understands that it is not sustainable. It will be a slow process, and it probably is coming much too late.

While the people of these countries are currently extremely happy, this same poll in a couple of generations will look very different, I will guarantee you this, because the standard of living for those people will be cut in half as there will be no one left to foot the bill for all of their excesses. And this is why we cannot go down this same path, or we will find ourselves in the same mess with our children and those who follow them with a much lower standard of living than we now enjoy.

 

[manu1959]

Here's the other thing about these socialistic countries: they don't worry about being thrown out in the street, they don't worry about bankruptcy because of medical bills, they get at least a month of vacation a year, they don't work 40 hours a week, they get time off for all sort of reasons, and money isn't the most important thing in the world, like it is here for many people. Yet most people in these socialist countries have a lifestyle that is equal materially to people living in the US.
Sounds nice to me. I'd love not to miss much of my children's childhoods because I have to work so much just to keep a job so I can support them. I'd love to have the opportunity to travel or take lots of time off to deal with my personal life. I get one week a year right now. One week! That is enough time to do jack squat! I work 81/2 to 9 hours a day and some weekends. And I'm getting a 3% pay cut. Its as if my life revolves around my job and my personal life is whatever I can get after work. I'm not happy and don't feel healthy at all, struggling to cope and just barely managing to get by.

having lived in danmark for a year .... not even close ....

 

[Red Dawn]

World's Happiest Places

I find this study very interesting. I've always been a free market capitalist, but find myself wondering if America's emphasis on work, above all else, is really working for us, or healthy.

Is work more important than life? Or do these northern European countries know something we don't? Have they learned to balance work and life in a way that we haven't?

I think the question we have to ask ourselves, as a country is: "Is the American way of life working for the vast majority of Americans?" I'm not sure, and I don't have any answers, but thought I'd share.

these countries aren't socialist.

They are hybrid economies that balance euntrepenurship with generous social welfare states.

Socialism is a system where all means of production and distribution is owned by the state. I think Scandanvian corporations like Volvo or Nokia would laugh at being called socialists.

The swedes, the dutch, and the danes are outstanding euntrepeneurs. I seriously doubt they are fans of Lenin or bolshevism.

I think the reason they are happier is those countries place a healthy balance between family life, the greater good of society, and cut throat capitalism. They found a middle ground.

I don't see anything wrong with 8 week vacations, mandatory paid maternity leave, subsidized child day care, and 35-40 hour work weeks. I don't think its a big secret these societies are happier. That sounds like a good deal to me.

 

[xotoxi]

Up here in this neck of the woods of Maine, I can take you to people who live on welfare who vote Republican and who swear that unions are the worst thing in the world even though most of them have never been involved with a union and few of them have ever worked for anything but minimum wage.

Such confused thinking is, I think typical of a people who have been fed complete nonsense by the media.

Most of these types have thousands of dollars worth of guns which they are sure they're going to need when the BLACK uprising happens and all those urban minorities (who are also all collectivists) come to Waldo county to steal their doublewides and rape their (second fattest in the USA) women.

This sounds vaguely familiar, except for the Waldo County portion.

 

[xotoxi]

Perfect example,, We want dental care just like Great Britain has don't we? Can't fucking wait!

Have you ever been to Maine and looked into someone's mouth?

Welcome to Great Britain.

 

[auditor0007]

World's Happiest Places

I find this study very interesting. I've always been a free market capitalist, but find myself wondering if America's emphasis on work, above all else, is really working for us, or healthy.

Is work more important than life? Or do these northern European countries know something we don't? Have they learned to balance work and life in a way that we haven't?

I think the question we have to ask ourselves, as a country is: "Is the American way of life working for the vast majority of Americans?" I'm not sure, and I don't have any answers, but thought I'd share.

these countries aren't socialist.

They are hybrid economies that balance euntrepenurship with generous social welfare states.

Socialism is a system where all means of production and distribution is owned by the state. I think Scandanvian corporations like Volvo or Nokia would laugh at being called socialists.

The swedes, the dutch, and the danes are outstanding euntrepeneurs. I seriously doubt they are fans of Lenin or bolshevism.

I think the reason they are happier is those countries place a healthy balance between family life, the greater good of society, and cut throat capitalism. They found a middle ground.

I don't see anything wrong with 8 week vacations, mandatory paid maternity leave, subsidized child day care, and 35-40 hour work weeks. I don't think its a big secret these societies are happier. That sounds like a good deal to me.

But again, for how long will they be able to maintain this? That is the real problem for them.