Socialist Power in America

[AquaAthena]

1. "The DSA [Democratic Socialists of America] is a political action committee and bills itself as the heir to the defunct Socialist Party of America. It's chief organizing objective is to work within the Democratic Party as the primary, but not sole, method of achieving public ownership of private property and the means of production.
"Stress our Democratic Party strategy and electoral work," explains an internal organizing document obtained by WND.

"Stress our Democratic Party strategy and electoral work," explains an internal organizing document obtained by WND. "The Democratic Party is something the public understands, and association with it takes the edge off. Stressing our Democratic Party work will establish some distance from the radical subculture and help integrate you to the milieu of the young liberals." In October 2009, the DSA newsletter reported that 70 congressional Democrats are active members.

2. ... links include Mother Jones magazine, Moveon.org, OneWorld, The Nation magazine, ACORN and the Institute for Policy Studies.
"Many socialists have seen the Democratic Party, since at least the New Deal, as the key political arena in which to consolidate this coalition, because the Democratic Party held the allegiance of our natural allies," the group states in the "Where we stand" section of its website.

"Through control of the government by the Democratic Party coalition, led by anti-corporate forces, a progressive program regulating the corporations, redistributing income, fostering economic growth and expanding social programs could be realized."
In addition to a national program of "massive redistribution of income from corporations and the wealthy to wage earners and the poor and the public sector," the DSA also calls for a breaking down the American-style notions of nationalism and national sovereignty.

a. Democratic socialists are dedicated to building truly international social movements – of unionists, environmentalists, feminists, and people of color – that together can elevate global justice over brutalizing global competition."

b. While the DSA tries to paint distinctions between its brand of socialism and communism, before scrubbing its website following the WND expose 12 years ago, the site included a song list that included:

"The Internationale," the worldwide anthem of Communism and socialism.
"Red Revolution" sung to the tune of "Red Robin," with these lyrics: "When the Red Revolution brings its solution along, along, there'll be no more lootin' when we start shootin' that Wall Street throng. ..."

"Are You Sleeping, Bourgeoisie?" Lyrics included: "Are you sleeping? Are you sleeping? Bourgeoisie, Bourgeoisie. And when the revolution comes, We'll kill you all with knives and guns, Bourgeoisie, Bourgeoisie."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is a longtime member of the Progressive Caucus and served on the executive committee. She was not, however, listed last year as a member of the DSA.
How many socialists sit in Congress today? How many socialists sit in Congress today?

3. Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) was founded in 1991 by Bernie Sanders-the openly socialist then Congressman from Vermont, Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and the radical Washington DC based "think tank" Institute for Policy Studies (IPS). Many members were and continue to be linked to DSA and/or the Communist Party USA, IPS or other radical organizations.
From small beginnings the CPC has grown to embrace more than 80 members of Congress and three in the Senate. Congressional Progressive Caucus - KeyWiki

4. In more recent years, the Congressional Progressive Caucus has gone underground in respect to their connection to the Democratic Socialists of America. Their roster is no longer published on the DSA website and they no longer publicly acknowledge their loyalty to the socialist organization. In the DSA document, "Electoral Politics As Tactic — Elections Statement 2000," it states:

"DSA recognizes that some insurgent politicians representing labor, environmentalists, gays and lesbians, and communities of color may choose to run under Democratic auspices... and the 59 Democratic members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, one-half of whom are Black and Latino and all of whom possess strong labor backing and operative social democratic politics."
In the simplest of terms, Socialists at every level of government are calling for the federal government takeover of the management of American business, health care, education and the American family.

a. Ludwig von Mises wrote: "On the other hand the application of the basic ideas of collectivism cannot result in anything but social disintegration and the perpetuation of armed conflict. It is true that every variety of collectivism promises eternal peace starting with the day of its own decisive victory and the final overthrow and extermination of all other ideologies and their supporters. ... As soon as a faction has succeeded in winning the support of the majority of citizens and thereby attained control of the government machine, it is free to deny to the minority all those democratic rights by means of which it itself has previously carried on its own struggle for supremacy." [The Fallacy of Collectivism] Socialists in the House: the Progressive Caucus

Thus, the Left in America is the combination of socialists, communists, progressives and the Democratic Party.

While there are many, I am sure, who subscribe to some aspects of the programs and agendas of these groups, it is essential that all recognize that giving power to even parts of this collective will empower all of their programs.

2. ... links include Mother Jones magazine, Moveon.org, OneWorld, The Nation magazine, ACORN and the Institute for Policy Studies.

And don't forget Hillary Clinton started the Center for American Progress with millions from Soros, and many of the "think tank" members are currently in Obama's cabinet of progressives trying to reverse the course of the Constitution and America as many of us know and love her.

"Created by the Democratic National Committee, developed by a secret White House brain trust, and initially funded by the George Soros / Herb Sandler / Hillary Clinton money lists, the Center for American Progress is an echo chamber for the Democratic Party and left-wing politics in general. A favorite source of NPR (National Public Radio) stories."

Center for American Progress

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvJJP9AYgqU]YouTube - Obama: "Fundamentally Transforming the United States of America"[/ame]

 

[The T]

I am looking at Herman Cain...Allen West...virtual NEW voices...apart from what the Media decides...as they tend to do...

Good. You are a good man.

However, most people are shitbgas. They do not understand why they are voting.

Perhaps. The Constitution does NOT allow Voting for POTUS...Nowhere in the Constitution does it state a 'Right To Vote'...

The only reason why people can is by their OWN State's practice...

Regard...

That, of course, brought us to the idea that Americans have a right to vote ... and that includes a right to vote in a presidential election. Sorry, folks .. but it just isn't so. I hate going over this again, but you can read the Constitution all you want, and you're never going to find any clause which grants a universal right to vote to American citizens. You will find a 15th Amendment where it is written that a person can't be prevented from voting because of their race, ethnicity, gender ... etc. All the 15th Amendment does is restrict the states and the federal government from turning voters away from the polls because of race, gender or religion. Nothing in the 15th Amendment says that either the states or the federal government must allow all people to vote. There are rights granted to all Americans. You can worship and express yourself as you please. Sorry .. no right to vote.
Now, as for presidential elections. Read the constitution. There is no constitutional guarantee that there will be any vote at all, let alone that everyone has the "right" to vote. The only people who have a right to vote for president under our Constitution are the electors from each state. There is no restriction placed on the states as to how these electors must be chosen. State legislatures may appoint the electors with absolutely no public vote if they so chose. Right to vote? It simply isn't there.

Excerpt from Neal Boortz from My archives...10/19/2004...

NOW...since Electors do what they do? Makes sense that people DO their homework...and remember the old addage that ALL POLITICS are LOCAL...

 

[bripat9643]

blah, blah, blah....more rw kook nonsense from you.

Socialism is when workers own the means of production. Please enlighten us on:

1. Why this is bad.

2. Why this is not occurring.

Sorry, but socialists have been saying for ages that socialism is when the government owns the means of production. Only recently since that policy has proven to be such an obvious disaster have commies like you started claiming that socialism means worker control.

Furthermore, worker control is effectively government control. There are only two means of organizing the productive means of society, private property or government control. Any claims about a third option are pure moonshine.

Even if worker control were possible, that wouldn't make it good. When I look at the majority of people I work with, I shudder to imagine them running major corporations. furthermore, it takes a real moron to think that every decision productive enterprise makes can be accomplished by a majority vote of the workers. Down that road lies total paralysis.

I could go on for pages and pages, but that should suffice to get all the leftwing nabobs yapping.

 

[The T]

blah, blah, blah....more rw kook nonsense from you.

Socialism is when workers own the means of production. Please enlighten us on:

1. Why this is bad.

2. Why this is not occurring.

Sorry, but socialists have been saying for ages that socialism is when the government owns the means of production. Only recently since that policy has proven to be such an obvious disaster have commies like you started claiming that socialism means worker control.

Furthermore, worker control is effectively government control. There are only two means of organizing the productive means of society, private property or government control. Any claims about a third option are pure moonshine.

Even if worker control were possible, that wouldn't make it good. When I look at the majority of people I work with, I shudder to imagine them running major corporations. furthermore, it takes a real moron to think that every decision productive enterprise makes can be accomplished by a majority vote of the workers. Down that road lies total paralysis.

I could go on for pages and pages, but that should suffice to get all the leftwing nabobs yapping.

And this Country was founded upon the individual and PRIVATE control...(And that means Government)...Private Property...

See My sigline...Statement #2...Government has become the oppressors contrary to the Founders and the Constitution which last time I looked was still in effect...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Socialism is simply an attempt to remedy the appalling consequences of the immoral theory that society should encourage and the law should enable the unfettered accumulation of massive amounts of wealth in the hands of a few, at the expense of the many.

 

[logical4u]

why cant you counter the real arguement made.

Why do you people have to pretend some big hairy socialist is out to get you?

This is America and we are capitalists.

I am and will always be a capitalist and you would be haard pressed to find anyone more liberal democrat than me.


This whole smoke and mirrors crap proves that your positions are so weak you fear the real discussion of what your fellow Americans want to see happen in this country.

You know you will lose the real debate so you throw up this confetti in the air as if thinking people will actually buy it.


Put away your childish boogey men and face like adults the real discussion of what we should do to improve this country for Americans.

I thought the "real" discussion WAS about communists/socialists infiltrating the democratic party and disguising their agenda to make the USA a communist/socialist country. I know most libs want to pretend their is no evil out there, but that is the the discussion for this "thread". Question for the general lib: if no one has "bad intentions", why do so many "bad" things, happen?

 

[logical4u]

lol....getting negged and the excuse is that you are a "moron" is hardly backing up the fact.


However, you live in a delusional world.

While you may be a moron, you certainly have me confused with someone else with whom
you lost a battle....

IOW, you cannot answer my question of why the collective means of ownership is a bad thing.


IOW, you are trolling me. Bye.

How would collective ownership work for a "car"?
How would collective ownership work for a "house"?
Do you own things, collectively (if it is such a great idea)?

 

[logical4u]

And interesting that SOME EU 'States' are backtracking...It's become unsustainable...lest they end up as Greece? Spain?

Exactly. They dont want to become the P.I.G.S.

They aren't backtracking, they are adjusting the way they spend money. They are spending more on subsidized childcare and giving tax breaks to parents so they can afford to spend more on education, infrastructure, healthcare, and welfare in the future. Lets just face it, we will never be as nice of a place to live as Europe.

Why are so many Europeans trying to "live" here?
If you like Europe so much, why don't you move there?
I thought you people liked diversity, the USA has its own drumbeat. We are not the same as other nations, nor do we have any desire to model after any country were freedoms are lacking (socialism/communism).

 

[PoliticalChic]

Exactly. They dont want to become the P.I.G.S.

They aren't backtracking, they are adjusting the way they spend money. They are spending more on subsidized childcare and giving tax breaks to parents so they can afford to spend more on education, infrastructure, healthcare, and welfare in the future. Lets just face it, we will never be as nice of a place to live as Europe.

Why are so many Europeans trying to "live" here?
If you like Europe so much, why don't you move there?
I thought you people liked diversity, the USA has its own drumbeat. We are not the same as other nations, nor do we have any desire to model after any country were freedoms are lacking (socialism/communism).

And we will again, after the 2012 election.

 

[editec]

I listened to a scholar (I think, he seemed scholarly enough) from the MISES institute discussing ANARCHY, yesterday.

He made some interesting points that I thought had merit.

He was, for example, differentiating anarchy from lawlessness.

I can't really do credit to his 1 1/2 hour lecture, but he clearly did make some good points that I hadn't previously thought of.

I was impressed overall with his reasoning.

Not convinced (he glossed over a lot of problems, I thought) but he scored, anyway.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I listened to a scholar (I think, he seemed scholarly enough) from the MISES institute discussing ANARCHY, yesterday.

He made some interesting points that I thought had merit.

He was, for example, differentiating anarchy from lawlessness.

I can't really do credit to his 1 1/2 hour lecture, but he clearly did make some good points that I hadn't previously thought of.

I was impressed overall with his reasoning.

Not convinced (he glossed over a lot of problems, I thought) but he scored, anyway.

Is the lecture available on the net?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Socialism has always been a part of U. S.

The only debate is over how much or little socialism will the country embrace.

 

[Steelplate]

The funny thing is... that Some people feel we actually have a capitalist society. What we have is more like a plutocracy or an oligarchy. Where the wealthy make the rules(which always benefits them... ALWAYS) and the general public keep losing ground.

They use their power and influence to dictate favorable legislation and they demonize any politician who goes against their wishes as a "Socialist", or... they simply have their minions(those who are already their slaves... from both parties, I might add) beat them into submission by blocking their efforts, further blathering about Socialism and spreading fear amongst the undereducated, close-minded of our public... which unfortunately sits somewhere around 50% of the country.

 

[beowolfe]

1. "The DSA [Democratic Socialists of America] is a political action committee and bills itself as the heir to the defunct Socialist Party of America. It's chief organizing objective is to work within the Democratic Party as the primary, but not sole, method of achieving public ownership of private property and the means of production.
"Stress our Democratic Party strategy and electoral work," explains an internal organizing document obtained by WND.

"Stress our Democratic Party strategy and electoral work," explains an internal organizing document obtained by WND. "The Democratic Party is something the public understands, and association with it takes the edge off. Stressing our Democratic Party work will establish some distance from the radical subculture and help integrate you to the milieu of the young liberals." In October 2009, the DSA newsletter reported that 70 congressional Democrats are active members.

2. ... links include Mother Jones magazine, Moveon.org, OneWorld, The Nation magazine, ACORN and the Institute for Policy Studies.
"Many socialists have seen the Democratic Party, since at least the New Deal, as the key political arena in which to consolidate this coalition, because the Democratic Party held the allegiance of our natural allies," the group states in the "Where we stand" section of its website.

"Through control of the government by the Democratic Party coalition, led by anti-corporate forces, a progressive program regulating the corporations, redistributing income, fostering economic growth and expanding social programs could be realized."
In addition to a national program of "massive redistribution of income from corporations and the wealthy to wage earners and the poor and the public sector," the DSA also calls for a breaking down the American-style notions of nationalism and national sovereignty.

a. Democratic socialists are dedicated to building truly international social movements – of unionists, environmentalists, feminists, and people of color – that together can elevate global justice over brutalizing global competition."

b. While the DSA tries to paint distinctions between its brand of socialism and communism, before scrubbing its website following the WND expose 12 years ago, the site included a song list that included:

"The Internationale," the worldwide anthem of Communism and socialism.
"Red Revolution" sung to the tune of "Red Robin," with these lyrics: "When the Red Revolution brings its solution along, along, there'll be no more lootin' when we start shootin' that Wall Street throng. ..."

"Are You Sleeping, Bourgeoisie?" Lyrics included: "Are you sleeping? Are you sleeping? Bourgeoisie, Bourgeoisie. And when the revolution comes, We'll kill you all with knives and guns, Bourgeoisie, Bourgeoisie."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is a longtime member of the Progressive Caucus and served on the executive committee. She was not, however, listed last year as a member of the DSA.
How many socialists sit in Congress today? How many socialists sit in Congress today?

3. Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) was founded in 1991 by Bernie Sanders-the openly socialist then Congressman from Vermont, Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and the radical Washington DC based "think tank" Institute for Policy Studies (IPS). Many members were and continue to be linked to DSA and/or the Communist Party USA, IPS or other radical organizations.
From small beginnings the CPC has grown to embrace more than 80 members of Congress and three in the Senate. Congressional Progressive Caucus - KeyWiki

4. In more recent years, the Congressional Progressive Caucus has gone underground in respect to their connection to the Democratic Socialists of America. Their roster is no longer published on the DSA website and they no longer publicly acknowledge their loyalty to the socialist organization. In the DSA document, "Electoral Politics As Tactic — Elections Statement 2000," it states:

"DSA recognizes that some insurgent politicians representing labor, environmentalists, gays and lesbians, and communities of color may choose to run under Democratic auspices... and the 59 Democratic members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, one-half of whom are Black and Latino and all of whom possess strong labor backing and operative social democratic politics."
In the simplest of terms, Socialists at every level of government are calling for the federal government takeover of the management of American business, health care, education and the American family.

a. Ludwig von Mises wrote: "On the other hand the application of the basic ideas of collectivism cannot result in anything but social disintegration and the perpetuation of armed conflict. It is true that every variety of collectivism promises eternal peace starting with the day of its own decisive victory and the final overthrow and extermination of all other ideologies and their supporters. ... As soon as a faction has succeeded in winning the support of the majority of citizens and thereby attained control of the government machine, it is free to deny to the minority all those democratic rights by means of which it itself has previously carried on its own struggle for supremacy." [The Fallacy of Collectivism] Socialists in the House: the Progressive Caucus

Thus, the Left in America is the combination of socialists, communists, progressives and the Democratic Party.

While there are many, I am sure, who subscribe to some aspects of the programs and agendas of these groups, it is essential that all recognize that giving power to even parts of this collective will empower all of their programs.

You DO KNOW that having the word 'democratic' in their name does not mean they are affiliated with the democratic party, right? Heck, it doesn't even mean they are on the political left.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. "The DSA [Democratic Socialists of America] is a political action committee and bills itself as the heir to the defunct Socialist Party of America. It's chief organizing objective is to work within the Democratic Party as the primary, but not sole, method of achieving public ownership of private property and the means of production.
"Stress our Democratic Party strategy and electoral work," explains an internal organizing document obtained by WND.

"Stress our Democratic Party strategy and electoral work," explains an internal organizing document obtained by WND. "The Democratic Party is something the public understands, and association with it takes the edge off. Stressing our Democratic Party work will establish some distance from the radical subculture and help integrate you to the milieu of the young liberals." In October 2009, the DSA newsletter reported that 70 congressional Democrats are active members.

2. ... links include Mother Jones magazine, Moveon.org, OneWorld, The Nation magazine, ACORN and the Institute for Policy Studies.
"Many socialists have seen the Democratic Party, since at least the New Deal, as the key political arena in which to consolidate this coalition, because the Democratic Party held the allegiance of our natural allies," the group states in the "Where we stand" section of its website.

"Through control of the government by the Democratic Party coalition, led by anti-corporate forces, a progressive program regulating the corporations, redistributing income, fostering economic growth and expanding social programs could be realized."
In addition to a national program of "massive redistribution of income from corporations and the wealthy to wage earners and the poor and the public sector," the DSA also calls for a breaking down the American-style notions of nationalism and national sovereignty.

a. Democratic socialists are dedicated to building truly international social movements – of unionists, environmentalists, feminists, and people of color – that together can elevate global justice over brutalizing global competition."

b. While the DSA tries to paint distinctions between its brand of socialism and communism, before scrubbing its website following the WND expose 12 years ago, the site included a song list that included:

"The Internationale," the worldwide anthem of Communism and socialism.
"Red Revolution" sung to the tune of "Red Robin," with these lyrics: "When the Red Revolution brings its solution along, along, there'll be no more lootin' when we start shootin' that Wall Street throng. ..."

"Are You Sleeping, Bourgeoisie?" Lyrics included: "Are you sleeping? Are you sleeping? Bourgeoisie, Bourgeoisie. And when the revolution comes, We'll kill you all with knives and guns, Bourgeoisie, Bourgeoisie."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is a longtime member of the Progressive Caucus and served on the executive committee. She was not, however, listed last year as a member of the DSA.
How many socialists sit in Congress today? How many socialists sit in Congress today?

3. Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) was founded in 1991 by Bernie Sanders-the openly socialist then Congressman from Vermont, Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and the radical Washington DC based "think tank" Institute for Policy Studies (IPS). Many members were and continue to be linked to DSA and/or the Communist Party USA, IPS or other radical organizations.
From small beginnings the CPC has grown to embrace more than 80 members of Congress and three in the Senate. Congressional Progressive Caucus - KeyWiki

4. In more recent years, the Congressional Progressive Caucus has gone underground in respect to their connection to the Democratic Socialists of America. Their roster is no longer published on the DSA website and they no longer publicly acknowledge their loyalty to the socialist organization. In the DSA document, "Electoral Politics As Tactic — Elections Statement 2000," it states:

"DSA recognizes that some insurgent politicians representing labor, environmentalists, gays and lesbians, and communities of color may choose to run under Democratic auspices... and the 59 Democratic members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, one-half of whom are Black and Latino and all of whom possess strong labor backing and operative social democratic politics."
In the simplest of terms, Socialists at every level of government are calling for the federal government takeover of the management of American business, health care, education and the American family.

a. Ludwig von Mises wrote: "On the other hand the application of the basic ideas of collectivism cannot result in anything but social disintegration and the perpetuation of armed conflict. It is true that every variety of collectivism promises eternal peace starting with the day of its own decisive victory and the final overthrow and extermination of all other ideologies and their supporters. ... As soon as a faction has succeeded in winning the support of the majority of citizens and thereby attained control of the government machine, it is free to deny to the minority all those democratic rights by means of which it itself has previously carried on its own struggle for supremacy." [The Fallacy of Collectivism] Socialists in the House: the Progressive Caucus

Thus, the Left in America is the combination of socialists, communists, progressives and the Democratic Party.

While there are many, I am sure, who subscribe to some aspects of the programs and agendas of these groups, it is essential that all recognize that giving power to even parts of this collective will empower all of their programs.

You DO KNOW that having the word 'democratic' in their name does not mean they are affiliated with the democratic party, right? Heck, it doesn't even mean they are on the political left.

I'm certain that you are on a tight schedule, but it behooves you to actually read the OP about which you plan a response.
I appreciate your input, but it would probably be so much better informed after you attempt the perusal.

(The idea that far-Left groups' aim was and is to use the Democrat Party, both because they and it have so much in common, and as cover for an approach to the young....all of which is covered in the OP.
Try it, you'll like it.)

 

[PoliticalChic]

The funny thing is... that Some people feel we actually have a capitalist society. What we have is more like a plutocracy or an oligarchy. Where the wealthy make the rules(which always benefits them... ALWAYS) and the general public keep losing ground.

They use their power and influence to dictate favorable legislation and they demonize any politician who goes against their wishes as a "Socialist", or... they simply have their minions(those who are already their slaves... from both parties, I might add) beat them into submission by blocking their efforts, further blathering about Socialism and spreading fear amongst the undereducated, close-minded of our public... which unfortunately sits somewhere around 50% of the country.

Welcome to the board.

1. "Some people feel we actually have a capitalist society."
True, and also true, we have a partly free market economy.

2. "What we have is more like a plutocracy or an oligarchy. Where the wealthy make the rules(which always benefits them... ALWAYS) and the general public keep losing ground."
False.
Due to the dynamic nature of our economy, of our society, there is no fixed group known as 'the wealthy,' nor one known as 'the poor.'
Over 90% of millionaires earned the money rather than inherited it.

Here, let me help you:

a. " More than three-quarters of those working Americans whose incomes were in the bottom 20 percent in 1975 were also in the top 40 percent of income earners at some point by 1991, says Sowell."
Source: Thomas Sowell, "How Media Misuse Income Data To Match Their Preconceptions," Investor's Business Daily, January 12, 2010.

b. For example, the new Census data find that only 3% of Americans are "chronically" poor, which the Census Bureau defines as being in poverty for three years or more. Many of the people in the bottom quintile of income earners in any one year are new entrants to the labor force or those who are leaving the labor force.

The data also show downward mobility among the highest income earners. The top 1% in 1996 saw an average decline in their real, after-tax incomes by 52% in the next 10 years.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB122143692536934297.html

c. "Over half of the poor earning at or near the minimum wage are between the ages of 16 and 24. As Sowell wryly notes, “these individuals cannot remain from 16 to 24 years of age indefinitely, though that age category can of course continue indefinitely, providing many intellectuals with data to fit their preconceptions.”An Independent Mind by Daniel J. Mahoney, City Journal 18 June 2010

Did you get that last one? As folks grow in experience, they move up the economic ladder.

3. In your statement "They use their power and influence..." I can tell that you've bought the Leftist class-warfare propaganda....too bad.
See how that view fits with the data that I provided above....you might change your view.

Hope to see more of your work.

 

[M14 Shooter]

blah, blah, blah....more rw kook nonsense from you.

Socialism is when workers own the means of production. Please enlighten us on:

Socialism is when the -state- owns the means of production and distribution of wealth, and then distributes that wealth, from each according to his means to each according to his needs.

1. Why this is bad.

It creates a condtition of involuntary servitude, akin to slavery, and thus, is the antithesis of liverty

2. Why this is not occurring.

Because enough people are not yet stupid enough to let it.

 

[editec]

I listened to a scholar (I think, he seemed scholarly enough) from the MISES institute discussing ANARCHY, yesterday.

He made some interesting points that I thought had merit.

He was, for example, differentiating anarchy from lawlessness.

I can't really do credit to his 1 1/2 hour lecture, but he clearly did make some good points that I hadn't previously thought of.

I was impressed overall with his reasoning.

Not convinced (he glossed over a lot of problems, I thought) but he scored, anyway.

Is the lecture available on the net?

Yes unfortunately I didn't bookmark it and my "history" has lumped every site I looked at last week into one huge pile (as it does every monday).

Let's see if I can find it for you via Google

b right back...

Well, I think I found something by the same speaker, but it is not the entire version I heard.

No as I listen to this version it was not the one I heard yesterday.

I'lll keep looking for it because it was definitely worth a listen, regardless of how one feels about the subject.

If somebody could come up with an argument that social anarchy was actually DO-ABLE such that most people would get by, I'd be there with bells on, ya know?

I mean we can ALL see why and how governments go bad.

That is, far as I can see, a no brainer.

But how one migrates from what we have NOW, to something that truly looks like it will work?

There's the rub.

Anyway, this guy pointed out some of the flaws in my thinking process about why I object to anarchy.

For example, he pointed out something I ought to have realized before his lecture.

That not all anarchic situations are the same and how a society would look in an anarchic situation would really depend on what the social fabric of the nation had been BEFORE the government collapsed.

That is an incredibly perceptive observation that I am embarrassed to say hadn't occurred to me until yesterday.

See?

This is WHY its a good idea to stay open and listen to people whose ideas you expect to reject.

Good ieas, and asute observations exist in people and ideologies that we don't believe.

If all youy do is listen to the people who you KNOW you agree with?

You are screwing yourself.

It pays to know what other people are thinking.

Their ideas might not be exactly like yours, and that is why you should listen to them.

They help you test your POV against a reality that you might otherwise miss.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That not all anarchic situations are the same and how a society would look in an anarchic situation would really depend on what the social fabric of the nation had been BEFORE the government collapsed.

If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary
-Madison, Federalist 51