Socialism - the Moral Question

[dblack]

Under full-fledged socialism, there would be no taxes. There would be no need to pay for it, because the government would control labor and resources directly.

IOW, the peasants would all be chattel slaves to The State.

But it'll be ok, because democracy.

 

[Oddball]

Under full-fledged socialism, there would be no taxes. There would be no need to pay for it, because the government would control labor and resources directly.

IOW, the peasants would all be chattel slaves to The State.

But it'll be ok, because democracy.

 

[Toronado3800]

No one is saying not to watch the government or corporations, except the NRA who do nothing about Facebook datamining what guns you have.

Elected officials are in a spotlight and the press loves to afflict the comfortable.

The press loves to afflict those with different politics from their own. Those with the same views pretty much get a pass. And that's why they should be held accountable just like gov't, corps/companies, schools/colleges.universities, and organizations such as the NRA.

What works in Capitalism should hold them accountable. It is more difficult when government doesn't look to socialism and allows monopolies though

Gubmint is the biggest and most unaccountable monopoly of them all.

Whats the alternative?

Nothing.....Literally.

Are we talking nothing as there is no perfect choice?

Or nothing as in no government?

 

[DGS49]

CAPITALISM, with its many faults, has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic system in human history. The recent history of communist China is an outstanding illustration of what can happen when a socialist economy is vitalized by the controlled introduction of capitalist initiatives. It is still a Work in Progress, but it shows what can happen.

The downside of Capitalism is that it leaves some behind: those who cannot or will not work, whether through their own shortcomings or otherwise. Hence, Capitalism must be tempered with measures to provide for a group which has historically been known as the "deserving poor." Widows, orphans, those with disabilities of one kind or another, and those who are too old to work productively.

And this is where human nature interferes with the best intentions of People of Good Will. Programs intended to uplift those who cannot provide for themselves spawn generations of people who WILL not provide for themselves, knowing that they will be supported and nurtured by these well-meaning programs.

No easy solution.

 

[danielpalos]

because you are not solving for actual socio-economic phenomena.

 

[Oddball]

The press loves to afflict those with different politics from their own. Those with the same views pretty much get a pass. And that's why they should be held accountable just like gov't, corps/companies, schools/colleges.universities, and organizations such as the NRA.

What works in Capitalism should hold them accountable. It is more difficult when government doesn't look to socialism and allows monopolies though

Gubmint is the biggest and most unaccountable monopoly of them all.

Whats the alternative?

Nothing.....Literally.

Are we talking nothing as there is no perfect choice?

Or nothing as in no government?

The second one.

 

[Toronado3800]

What works in Capitalism should hold them accountable. It is more difficult when government doesn't look to socialism and allows monopolies though

Gubmint is the biggest and most unaccountable monopoly of them all.

Whats the alternative?

Nothing.....Literally.

Are we talking nothing as there is no perfect choice?

Or nothing as in no government?

The second one.

Once again in my opinion, we have the problem where if not for human nature, anarchy could work, so could socialism, so could pure capitalism.

I'll also toss in, ppl over the last 10,000 years just seem to come up with leaders wherever they are all over the world. I'm open to suggestions about small governemnt or how to break up powers though

 

[task0778]

Human nature is not going away anytime soon, and it's useless to pretend otherwise. That being so, it's hard to see how any big changes can be made when neither political party will support it in enough numbers. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me there are only 2 possibilities that could change things for the better:

1. A 3rd political party of moderates. The crazies at both ends of the political spectrum have too much power IMHO.

2. A smaller, decentralized gov't. Less power and authority leads to less corruption and waste at the federal level.

I think we'd need a combination of both. AND we'd need a much more impartial media and judiciary to keep the bad actors at bay and make them more accountable. The last thing is US; we have to be more informed and active in the running of our gov't at every level. You cannot keep re-electing the same assholes that won't work with the other side to get things done.

Can all this happen? Yeah, I guess. Likely? NO. I think another grass roots movement is required, similar to the TEA Parties. One that calls for pushing many issues down to the states to let them do what their citizens want rather than a one size fits all approach. Stuff like abortion, health care, gun control, minimum wage, etc., should not be handled at the top level of gov't. People are already fed up with the DC swamp, that's one big reason why Trump got elected. We'll see where that leads down the road.

 

[dblack]

Human nature is not going away anytime soon, and it's useless to pretend otherwise. That being so, it's hard to see how any big changes can be made when neither political party will support it in enough numbers. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me there are only 2 possibilities that could change things for the better:

1. A 3rd political party of moderates. The crazies at both ends of the political spectrum have too much power IMHO.

2. A smaller, decentralized gov't. Less power and authority leads to less corruption and waste at the federal level.

I think we'd need a combination of both. AND we'd need a much more impartial media and judiciary to keep the bad actors at bay and make them more accountable. The last thing is US; we have to be more informed and active in the running of our gov't at every level. You cannot keep re-electing the same assholes that won't work with the other side to get things done.

Can all this happen? Yeah, I guess. Likely? NO. I think another grass roots movement is required, similar to the TEA Parties. One that calls for pushing many issues down to the states to let them do what their citizens want rather than a one size fits all approach. Stuff like abortion, health care, gun control, minimum wage, etc., should not be handled at the top level of gov't. People are already fed up with the DC swamp, that's one big reason why Trump got elected. We'll see where that leads down the road.

I seriously believe changing our election system could go a long way toward mitigating the two-party death spiral. Maine has led the way adopting Ranked Choice Voting. Many cities and counties have adopted it as well. And several states are considering following Maine.