Socialism leads to....?

[tooAlive]

Lets go back to the late 1800's.

A period in our history where it's safe we experience the greatest innovation and growth the world has ever seen. If you've been watching The Men Who Built America you'll know what I'm referring to.

The railroad system, electric light, gasoline, the mass-produced automobile, steel, and more. All because a few men had a relentless desire to succeed, whether from good-will or greed.

And while working conditions did get pretty bad for the workers, the fact still remains that it was the greatest period of growth and innovation we've ever seen. My question is;

What would have happened under socialism? How would the innovation have come if the freedom of success and accumulation of wealth (or greed) that drove men like Vanderbilt, Morgan, Carnegie, Rockefeller, and Ford didn't exist?

Is it fair to say that under socialism, where people simply work for the collective good of others, that we'd probably still be taking horses to work and lighting candles at night?

 

[LoneLaugher]

It is? Is it fair to say that?

Is it also fair to say that the federal government played a key role in the growth of industry during that period?

Is it fair to say that you are willing to allow poor working conditions if it leads to industrial growth?

You assume much with your bullshit. Too bad we cannot assume that you even know what socialism is.

Yup. That's fair.

 

[OKTexas]

All you have to do is look at the earth changing inovation that has come out of western Europe in the last 60 years. Personally I can't think of one.

 

[tooAlive]

It is? Is it fair to say that?

Is it also fair to say that the federal government played a key role in the growth of industry during that period?

They did. By simply allowing it to happen.

Not to mention the government itself had to be bailed out by $65 Million from JP Morgan during that time. Which would equal a few billion in today's money.

Is it fair to say that you are willing to allow poor working conditions if it leads to industrial growth?

You assume much with your bullshit. Too bad we cannot assume that you even know what socialism is.

Yup. That's fair.

I never said it was fair. They just didn't know any better and there weren't any regulations set during that time. The fact is, they would have been able to achieve the same results even if they provided adequate pay and conditions to their workers. Henry Ford is the prime example.

Now tell me, how would that have been possible under socialism?

You seem to call my ideas BS, yet can't come up with a valid argument yourself.

 

[LoneLaugher]

All you have to do is look at the earth changing inovation that has come out of western Europe in the last 60 years. Personally I can't think of one.

Really? I wonder why THAT is? Couldn't be a complete lack of awareness of or interest in Western European culture on your part, could it?

 

[Antares]

Socialism ALWAYS fails, demand out strips supply....and then Communism kicks in because the people revolt and the Gov is forced to rule with the gun.

 

[OKTexas]

All you have to do is look at the earth changing inovation that has come out of western Europe in the last 60 years. Personally I can't think of one.

Really? I wonder why THAT is? Couldn't be a complete lack of awareness of or interest in Western European culture on your part, could it?

Your examplles would be???? Or do you need time to find something on the computer.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Ever hear of this?

Mondragon Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[LoneLaugher]

All you have to do is look at the earth changing inovation that has come out of western Europe in the last 60 years. Personally I can't think of one.

Really? I wonder why THAT is? Couldn't be a complete lack of awareness of or interest in Western European culture on your part, could it?

Your examplles would be???? Or do you need time to find something on the computer.

I figured you would have retracted that stupid statement by now. Instead, you are actually challenging me to provide examples of European innovation.

 

[Si modo]

Paraffin heaters are oh, so innovative.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Release of the Global Innovation Index 2012: Switzerland Retains First-Place Position in Innovation Performance

 

[tooAlive]

Really? I wonder why THAT is? Couldn't be a complete lack of awareness of or interest in Western European culture on your part, could it?

Your examplles would be???? Or do you need time to find something on the computer.

I figured you would have retracted that stupid statement by now. Instead, you are actually challenging me to provide examples of European innovation.

Yes. You challenged us, we delivered. Now it's your turn.

More specifically, examples of innovation and growth under socialism.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You delivered WHAT, exactly?

 

[OKTexas]

Ever hear of this?

Mondragon Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WOOW, you just mand it under the wire, 1956, good job, I think I actually used one of those heaters 50 years ago, heated soup on a camping trip, yep a earth changing experience.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Now we are talking "under socialism"? I thought we were discussing Western Europe.

You really are boring. Have you any idea how much innovation has come from places like Germany, England, Denmark, Japan and yes......Chchchchina? Are you trying to win an argument by boring me to death?

You need to get out sometime.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Ever hear of this?

Mondragon Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WOOW, you just mand it under the wire, 1956, good job, I think I actually used one of those heaters 50 years ago, heated soup on a camping trip, yep a earth changing experience.

Really? You are going with that?

I accept your apology.

 

[OKTexas]

Really? I wonder why THAT is? Couldn't be a complete lack of awareness of or interest in Western European culture on your part, could it?

Your examplles would be???? Or do you need time to find something on the computer.

I figured you would have retracted that stupid statement by now. Instead, you are actually challenging me to provide examples of European innovation.

Your the one that insinuated that not following Western European culture was some kind of disability, surley you follow it and have a hundred world changing inovations on the top of your little pin head. All I said is I couldn't think of one.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Your examplles would be???? Or do you need time to find something on the computer.

I figured you would have retracted that stupid statement by now. Instead, you are actually challenging me to provide examples of European innovation.

Your the one that insinuated that not following Western European culture was some kind of disability, surley you follow it and have a hundred world changing inovations on the top of your little pin head. All I said is I couldn't think of one.

What you said.......in common English...is that there are none. You have now recognized how ridiculous that is and are walking it back. I understand. I used to pop off like ht when I was a kid.

 

[tooAlive]

Now we are talking "under socialism"? I thought we were discussing Western Europe.

You really are boring. Have you any idea how much innovation has come from places like Germany, England, Denmark, Japan and yes......Chchchchina? Are you trying to win an argument by boring me to death?

You need to get out sometime.

Yes, we're talking about socialism and capitalism. Did you read my opening post? Nothing about Western Europe there.

I said that without an incentive to succeed, there's no innovation. JP Morgan invested millions in Thomas Edison because he wanted to create an empire. Not because he really cared about electric light.

How would that have worked under socialism? Or a scenario similar to it. Only a handful of individuals have ground-breaking ideas, and only a couple of those actually have the initiative to take action. How would they put their ideas into action under a system that doesn't allow individual advancement above others?

 

[jasonnfree]

Socialism ALWAYS fails, demand out strips supply....and then Communism kicks in because the people revolt and the Gov is forced to rule with the gun.

Scandinavia seems to be doing ok. Germany too. They work less hours, have more vacations, and have socialized medine. Okay, okay, socialized medicine is a dirty word, but it may help boost test scores. Canada, Finland, Norway, has better education scores than we do.