Socialism is Good

[eagleseven]

So despite the fact that they weren't producing something anybody wanted you think they should have been propped up. That doesn't help the economy whatsoever. It retards growth and leads to economic stagnation.

You're better off talking to a stone. Nosmo is living in his own fantasy Kingdom where economics don't apply and nice guys get all the girls...

 

[mdn2000]

You're clearly not a Farmer in central California which King Hussein and the Socialist Left are bankrupting to prevent a 2" fish from going extinct... so you're not watching your property dry up and borrowing against all hope and everything that GENERATIONS of your family have worked for over a century... nor are you one of the tens of thousands of individuals who depended upon those farms for their livelihood...

What you ARE, is an ignorant child... who doesn't even know what freedom is and thus has no idea what she may or may not have lost with regard to it.

The Smelt you are refering to is not even close to being extinct, the lefty environuts did the "scientific study" by sampling the amount being sucked into the pumps, they sampled at the pumps, no samples taken in other parts of the river, so the study is skewed, you see, billions of the smelt fingerlings float right on by the pumps, the pumps do not drain the river and leave a dry riverbed on the other side of the pumps, billions of gallons of water still makes it to the Ocean, carrying billions of smelt, how do these idiots think after thirty years the smelt has survived with those massive pumps operating, if they were in danger they would be no smelt today. Thats the problem with FOX news, they report the story but did only a tiny bit of research if any, they leave the skewed data sample part out or they dont know about it.

They did the same thing when they built the bridge on the delta that connects Benica to Martinez, to show how the hammering on the bed of the river would destroy fish they put fish in a cage and jack hammered next to the cage, ignoring the fact that the fish instinctively will avoid such and awful racket.

Huh... I don't think Fox stood on the proposition that the Smelt is going extinct... why would they? They're merely reporting what the Envir-cranks are using as their reational for destroying one of the largest sources of food production in the US.

I for one do not give a red rats ass about the smelt... if it goes extinct... that's perfectly fine with me. But, as you've said, even a smelt possesses the instinct to survive sufficient to avoid running healdlong into big, dark, clanging mechanisms...

I recall a couple of decade ago when the same Enviro-cranks were clambering on about the destruction of sea-life due to the building of oil rigs in the Gulf. They claimed that the rigs would force sea-life away from the drilling area and cripple the ecology... blah blah blah...

Turns out that the sea-life doens't really give a damn what gets set on the floor of the gulf... and that given the Gulf O'Mexico is pretty much a huge underwater desert, bottom wise; that where ever or whatever you set on the bottom; sea-life will cling to and around it; which it further turns out developes an entirely NEW ecology which actually fosters an increase in that sea-life.

Let's be honest here... it is impossible to underestimate these Eco-diots...

I wasnt trying to correct you or disagree, I was just saying that the way I heard the story they did not state the study was faulty.

I agree that I could care less if the smelt disappear

The water is just for the farmers in California's Central Valley. DEMOCRATS PELOSI'S, FIENSTIEN'S AND BOXERS FARMS IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA ARE SAVE AND WILL BE ABLE TO REPLACE SOME OF THE FOOD THAT THEY WILL NO LONGER HAVE TO COMPETE WITH, THEY SHOULD SEE INCREASED PROFITS FROM THE COMING FOOD SHORTAGE.

 

[Freeman]

I think both socialism and capitalism have good effects in society, what's bad, is the extremism in the two clan ie, neocons imperialists and facho communists

 

[Nosmo King]

The President has no authority to fire CEOs, and doing so sets a bad precedent. The workers need to find viable occupations that add to the economy rather than detract from it as GM does. I once again point to the example of the carriage makers, they lost their jobs when the automobile became popular so should they have been propped up by the government despite not producing a product that the public wanted?

If there was one carriage shop employing 8,000 workers then maybe, yes they should have been propped up. If those carriage makers could not go directly to work for one of the automobile manufacturers then they should have received some unemployment insurance benefits. If the owner of the carriage shop could not see that perhaps he should start making automobile bodies, then maybe he should have been fired. But the workers deserved better.

The communities affected by a massive GM shut down deserve better too. Ever been to Lordstown, Ohio? There, Reagan's tax cuts to big industry convinced steel manufacturers to pack up the mill and ship it to Singapore, or Korea or Guatemala. That threw thousands out of work. then NAFTA convinced other manufacturers to do the same, only this time the means of production were shipped to Mexico.

Now, you want the Capitalist juggernaut to finish the job and eliminate GM. What is to become of the American middle class? Policies like these are why it's a simple leap to believe Conservatives hate working people.

So despite the fact that they weren't producing something anybody wanted you think they should have been propped up. That doesn't help the economy whatsoever. It retards growth and leads to economic stagnation.

Retarded growth and economic stagnation has been the result here in the Rust Belt! Maybe it's time to try another tact.

Conservative unfettered Capitalism sounds grand on paper. It's consequences when applied to America's manufacturing sector have been a disaster. Whole communities have been ravaged. Those working ini manufacturing have lost their jobs and those jobs are never coming back. Those serving the workers in service based companies have also taken the flak of a shrinking customer base. Then something like Wal*Mart comes along and finishes the last of the Mom and Pop operations (hardware stores, jewelers, pharmacies, etc.)

We have seen "free market" Capitalism do its worst. Conglomeration, consolidation, outsourcing of jobs. And you prescribe even more?

Tell me. With all this economic destruction, where do you suppose the customers for the producers will come from? Disposable income is a thing of the past. Just staying afloat is the call of the day. Do you suppose those workers in Asia who benefited from all this great Capitalism are capable of picking up the slack in consumption?

 

[Nosmo King]

So despite the fact that they weren't producing something anybody wanted you think they should have been propped up. That doesn't help the economy whatsoever. It retards growth and leads to economic stagnation.

You're better off talking to a stone. Nosmo is living in his own fantasy Kingdom where economics don't apply and nice guys get all the girls...

To the contrary. In my area, we have seen blight in spectacular proportions. Closing steel mills in the 1980s. Closing parts suppliers today. And now the threat of closing a GM plant which employs 8,000. What do you suppose will be left for us to do here once "free" market Capitalism is finished with us? What will happen to our communities? Our schools? Our families?

 

[AllieBaba]

We have never had unfettered capitalism...unless you want to say we had unfettered capitalism in the second half of the 19th century. A time of UNPRECEDENTED growth and expansion, I might add. When anyone could achieve anything, and did.

 

[Nosmo King]

We have never had unfettered capitalism...unless you want to say we had unfettered capitalism in the second half of the 19th century. A time of UNPRECEDENTED growth and expansion, I might add. When anyone could achieve anything, and did.

Sure. The last half of the 19th century. When sweat shops prospered, the rich got incredibly rich and the poor slaved behind a share cropper's plow or in a steel mill without safety procedures or in a mine whose roof would collapse due to shoddy mining practices designed to maximize profits and minimize the life span of the workers.

What else happened during the last half of the 19th century? The unprecedented growth of labor unions. The institution of federal safety regulations for food, drugs and worker safety. The regulation of the exploitation of child labor.

Unfettered Capitalism makes its own sauce, like dry dog food.

 

[AllieBaba]

And with all those things growth came to a grinding halt and we waltzed into the Great Depression.

 

[Nosmo King]

And with all those things growth came to a grinding halt and we waltzed into the Great Depression.

The result of an under-regulated, highly speculative and greed driven market. Thanks!

 

[eagleseven]

So despite the fact that they weren't producing something anybody wanted you think they should have been propped up. That doesn't help the economy whatsoever. It retards growth and leads to economic stagnation.

You're better off talking to a stone. Nosmo is living in his own fantasy Kingdom where economics don't apply and nice guys get all the girls...

To the contrary. In my area, we have seen blight in spectacular proportions. Closing steel mills in the 1980s. Closing parts suppliers today. And now the threat of closing a GM plant which employs 8,000. What do you suppose will be left for us to do here once "free" market Capitalism is finished with us? What will happen to our communities? Our schools? Our families?

I was raised in the rust belt, and have since moved away. You'll adapt or starve...it's how the world works. Why should you be paid more for the same work that starving people in India, China, and Africa will do for much less?

Business models from the 1950s no longer work today, as GM is learning the hard way. Unskilled labor will no longer maintain the American lifestyle. Deal with it.

 

[Nosmo King]

You're better off talking to a stone. Nosmo is living in his own fantasy Kingdom where economics don't apply and nice guys get all the girls...

To the contrary. In my area, we have seen blight in spectacular proportions. Closing steel mills in the 1980s. Closing parts suppliers today. And now the threat of closing a GM plant which employs 8,000. What do you suppose will be left for us to do here once "free" market Capitalism is finished with us? What will happen to our communities? Our schools? Our families?

I was raised in the rust belt, and have since moved away. You'll adapt or starve...it's how the world works. Why should you be paid more for the same work that starving people in India, China, and Africa will do for much less?

Business models from the 1950s no longer work today, as GM is learning the hard way. Unskilled labor will no longer maintain the American lifestyle. Deal with it.

Why should American worker get paid more than the slave wages offered in the third world? Is that the question? Really?

And our workers are not "unskilled". We are millwrights and mechanics. We are tool and die makers and welders. We are boilermakers and electricians and plumbers and carpenters. "Unskilled". Another piece of evidence on how the Conservatives hole labor in utter contempt.

 

[eagleseven]

Why should American worker get paid more than the slave wages offered in the third world? Is that the question? Really?

Yes. Justify your existence in the modern world, or live off welfare as an obsolete parasite.

And our workers are not "unskilled". We are millwrights and mechanics. We are tool and die makers and welders. We are boilermakers and electricians and plumbers and carpenters. "Unskilled". Another piece of evidence on how the Conservatives hole labor in utter contempt.

The average plumber makes $50,000 a year, so cry me a river.

 

[Nosmo King]

Why should American worker get paid more than the slave wages offered in the third world? Is that the question? Really?

Yes. Justify your existence in the modern world, or live off welfare as an obsolete parasite.

And our workers are not "unskilled". We are millwrights and mechanics. We are tool and die makers and welders. We are boilermakers and electricians and plumbers and carpenters. "Unskilled". Another piece of evidence on how the Conservatives hole labor in utter contempt.

The average plumber makes $50,000 a year, so cry me a river.

How has our trade deficit worked out since we decided to move production overseas? Not only are we importing the goods we used to make right here in America, but we have ERODED THE BUYING POWER OF OUR OWN MIDDLE CLASS! We should get paid more than Asian slaves because we sustain the greatest lifestyle workers have ever known. We are the CUSTOMERS of the producers. Without a vibrant middle class, we lose everything. We lose our competitive edge in innovation (slaves and uneducated unskilled workers do not innovate. Educated, driven individuals do.) the middle class pays the taxes, educates the future generations and drives the consumption of goods and services. If you advocate paying third world wages to the workers of America, you will effectively turn America into the third world!

 

[eagleseven]

Why should American worker get paid more than the slave wages offered in the third world? Is that the question? Really?

Yes. Justify your existence in the modern world, or live off welfare as an obsolete parasite.

And our workers are not "unskilled". We are millwrights and mechanics. We are tool and die makers and welders. We are boilermakers and electricians and plumbers and carpenters. "Unskilled". Another piece of evidence on how the Conservatives hole labor in utter contempt.

The average plumber makes $50,000 a year, so cry me a river.

How has our trade deficit worked out since we decided to move production overseas? Not only are we importing the goods we used to make right here in America, but we have ERODED THE BUYING POWER OF OUR OWN MIDDLE CLASS! We should get paid more than Asian slaves because we sustain the greatest lifestyle workers have ever known. We are the CUSTOMERS of the producers. Without a vibrant middle class, we lose everything. We lose our competitive edge in innovation (slaves and uneducated unskilled workers do not innovate. Educated, driven individuals do.) the middle class pays the taxes, educates the future generations and drives the consumption of goods and services. If you advocate paying third world wages to the workers of America, you will effectively turn America into the third world!

American unskilled labor should be paid more than their Asian counterparts because you're special? Because your father was paid more?

I was hoping you would say "Because American workers are more productive," but we both know that isn't the case. And as GM is learning, the new Chinese middle class purchases cars just like the American middle class.

GM China

Welcome to the new China:

 

[Nosmo King]

Yes. Justify your existence in the modern world, or live off welfare as an obsolete parasite.


The average plumber makes $50,000 a year, so cry me a river.

How has our trade deficit worked out since we decided to move production overseas? Not only are we importing the goods we used to make right here in America, but we have ERODED THE BUYING POWER OF OUR OWN MIDDLE CLASS! We should get paid more than Asian slaves because we sustain the greatest lifestyle workers have ever known. We are the CUSTOMERS of the producers. Without a vibrant middle class, we lose everything. We lose our competitive edge in innovation (slaves and uneducated unskilled workers do not innovate. Educated, driven individuals do.) the middle class pays the taxes, educates the future generations and drives the consumption of goods and services. If you advocate paying third world wages to the workers of America, you will effectively turn America into the third world!

American unskilled labor should be paid more than their Asian counterparts because you're special? Because your father was paid more?

I was hoping you would say "Because American workers are more productive," but we both know that isn't the case. And as GM is learning, the new Chinese middle class purchases cars just like the American middle class.

GM China

Welcome to the new China:

My post says more than because we're 'special'. Your post says more about your attitude toward workers than you know. Erode our lifestyle down to huts and disease and ignorance all because to do otherwise would erode the wealth of a very few? If this is Capitalism, you can have it!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If there was one carriage shop employing 8,000 workers then maybe, yes they should have been propped up. If those carriage makers could not go directly to work for one of the automobile manufacturers then they should have received some unemployment insurance benefits. If the owner of the carriage shop could not see that perhaps he should start making automobile bodies, then maybe he should have been fired. But the workers deserved better.

The communities affected by a massive GM shut down deserve better too. Ever been to Lordstown, Ohio? There, Reagan's tax cuts to big industry convinced steel manufacturers to pack up the mill and ship it to Singapore, or Korea or Guatemala. That threw thousands out of work. then NAFTA convinced other manufacturers to do the same, only this time the means of production were shipped to Mexico.

Now, you want the Capitalist juggernaut to finish the job and eliminate GM. What is to become of the American middle class? Policies like these are why it's a simple leap to believe Conservatives hate working people.

So despite the fact that they weren't producing something anybody wanted you think they should have been propped up. That doesn't help the economy whatsoever. It retards growth and leads to economic stagnation.

Retarded growth and economic stagnation has been the result here in the Rust Belt! Maybe it's time to try another tact.

Conservative unfettered Capitalism sounds grand on paper. It's consequences when applied to America's manufacturing sector have been a disaster. Whole communities have been ravaged. Those working ini manufacturing have lost their jobs and those jobs are never coming back. Those serving the workers in service based companies have also taken the flak of a shrinking customer base. Then something like Wal*Mart comes along and finishes the last of the Mom and Pop operations (hardware stores, jewelers, pharmacies, etc.)

We have seen "free market" Capitalism do its worst. Conglomeration, consolidation, outsourcing of jobs. And you prescribe even more?

Tell me. With all this economic destruction, where do you suppose the customers for the producers will come from? Disposable income is a thing of the past. Just staying afloat is the call of the day. Do you suppose those workers in Asia who benefited from all this great Capitalism are capable of picking up the slack in consumption?

Well we haven't had free market Capitalism at all so it's not possible for any of the problems you describe to be the fault of free market Capitalism.

 

[eagleseven]

My post says more than because we're 'special'. Your post says more about your attitude toward workers than you know. Erode our lifestyle down to huts and disease and ignorance all because to do otherwise would erode the wealth of a very few?

It is not "The Rich vs. the Poor." It is "American workers vs. Chinese workers."

If this is Capitalism, you can have it!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwZV0vl7GiE&feature=PlayList&p=2A5BBA0365F7F5EC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=58"]Socialism is Good![/ame]