CDZ Social Security Trust Fund will go broke in 17 years

[Toddsterpatriot]

The FACT IS -- that interest was never paid during the life of the debt. Like it is on REAL bonds.

It was paid and bought more bonds. Just like real bonds re-investing the interest.

There weren't any bonds. There weren't any actual payments made. No reinvestment in ACTUAL BONDS. It's a book-keeping entry. AND the proper term for the JUNK that's in there is not bonds. They are called Inter-Governmental Dept Debit Memos.. They are NOT an investment. They are worthless IOUs with ZERO power to pay the bills. YOU'RE gonna be robbed again to pay for the money and phony interest that the Congress and Leadership stole from you 30 years ago.. And then did NOTHING to manage the situation..

There weren't any bonds.

You act like bonds don't count unless you can touch them.
Remember the final scene of Die Hard? All those Bearer Bonds fluttering around
after the building explodes? That was cool!

Treasury Bonds are all bookkeeping entries now.
They don't even send you a paper savings bond anymore.

All electronic.
I guess you can claim savings bonds are worthless IOUs.
I'll disagree with you there too.

YOU'RE gonna be robbed again to pay for the money and phony interest that the Congress and Leadership stole from you 30 years ago..

When the Trust Fund stops reinvesting the interest earned and starts redeeming bonds to pay benefits, it wouldn't make one bit of difference if the funds were held at Fidelity or held by the US government, that money is coming from the US taxpayers would cough up the dough every single time a bond matures.

Complete BS. As you've been denying, Bonds held at Fidelity provide YEARLY income, tangible assets and their VALUE floats with the markets. These are not bonds. The fund was ignored and feloniously mismanaged. If it were subject to SEC -- folks would be in jail...

And it DOES make about a $TRILL difference in BUDGETING and PAYING THAT DEBT.. ZERO was invested or paid during the 30 years of theft. They left that up to YOU to cover ever $$ of SS income shortfall TODAY.

NOTHING comes out of the Trust Fund to pay for ANYTHING..

The fund was ignored and feloniously mismanaged.

You can say many things about a fund with 100% US Treasury Bonds, mismanaged probably isn't one of them.

And it DOES make about a $TRILL difference in BUDGETING and PAYING THAT DEBT

It makes zero difference. Not one dollar.

Bonds held at Fidelity provide YEARLY income, tangible assets and their VALUE floats with the markets.

Let's think about 2 Trust Funds, each with $2.6 trillion in Treasury Bonds.

One is held at Fidelity. Every week day, $10 billion in 1 year Treasuries matures. $50 billion each week.
$2.6 trillion each year.
Fidelity takes the cash they get from the US Treasury, $10 billion plus interest and buys a new 1 year Treasury, at the Treasury website.

The other is held by the US government. Every week day, $10 billion in 1 year Treasuries matures. $50 billion each week. $2.6 trillion each year.
The Treasury issues a new 1 year Treasury to the Trust Fund. $10 billion plus interest.

At the end of the week, each fund has exactly the same number of bonds earning the same interest rate.

The day arrives when the funds have to pay out more benefits than they receive in payroll taxes.
The Fidelity fund decides that on Monday, they'll just take the cash.
The Treasury was used to the rollover, they don't have that much cash sitting around.
They go out into the market and sell $10 billion in 1 year Treasuries to the public.

The government held Trust Fund does the same. They notify the Treasury, they'll take cash on Monday.
The Treasury was used to the rollover, they don't have that much cash sitting around.
They go out into the market and sell $10 billion in 1 year Treasuries to the public.

Any difference in the value or behavior of the 2 funds?

Can anything come out of the either Trust Fund to pay for anything?

 

[regent]

"Social Security Going Broke" seems to be the battle cry of the Republican party it
has been used since the bill was passed wonder If that t battle cry is as effective as "Social Security is Socialism and Will Lead to Communism"?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Social Security Going Broke" seems to be the battle cry of the Republican party it
has been used since the bill was passed wonder If that t battle cry is as effective as "Social Security is Socialism and Will Lead to Communism"?

"Social Security Going Broke" seems to be the battle cry of the Republican party

Isn't it?

 

[regent]

"Social Security Going Broke" seems to be the battle cry of the Republican party it
has been used since the bill was passed wonder If that t battle cry is as effective as "Social Security is Socialism and Will Lead to Communism"?

"Social Security Going Broke" seems to be the battle cry of the Republican party

Isn't it?

Always.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"Social Security Going Broke" seems to be the battle cry of the Republican party it
has been used since the bill was passed wonder If that t battle cry is as effective as "Social Security is Socialism and Will Lead to Communism"?

"Social Security Going Broke" seems to be the battle cry of the Republican party

Isn't it?

Always.

Always going broke?

 

[usmbguest5318]

Social Security Trust Fund will go broke in 17 years

The impending exhaustion of the Social Security Trust Fund (SSTF) is not news. It was noted at least as far back as the Reagan years. Insofar as it was, workers have long had two choices: prepare adequately for that eventuality or don't. For those who headed the warning and are prepared, it won't matter. For those who ignored the warning, it'll matter to them, but it'll be their problem to deal with, not everyone else's.

One can say "they promised this and that," but "they" also informed the nation that the SSTF would run out of money. One can either take those two realities into consideration and, in one's own best interest, act accordingly to mitigate the impact one suffers when the first "promise" does not come to fruition, or not. I simply will not feel very sympathetic for ones who chose the latter course.

 

[flacaltenn]

You can say many things about a fund with 100% US Treasury Bonds, mismanaged probably isn't one of them.

The SS TFund hasn't hasn't had actual Treasury Bonds put in there in several decades now. Just "inter agency transfer notes" AKA IOUs. They and the CBO acknowledge that fact in the links I provided.

Treasury Bonds is what the Treasury has to sell TODAY to cover every penny of the SS Shortfall. NOTHING OF VALUE comes OUT of the purloined Trust Fund. EVERY PENNY of shortfall is NEW DEBT on the backs of the folks who got their surplus ROBBED -- or their children.

 

[skews13]

Each year the trustees for the SSTF are required to publish a report to the President and the Congress on the financial condition of the SSTF. This year it came out last friday afternoon, and it ain't good. Excerpts:

The Social Security report finds that the "trust fund" will run out of money in just 17 years. The news only gets worse from there.

The program's unfunded liability over the next 75 years is now $12.5 trillion, which is up from $11.4 trillion last year and $4.7 trillion a decade ago. In other words, Social Security's long-term unfunded liability has increased by 166% in the span of 10 years.

And on a cash flow basis, Social Security is now losing money every year. Last year it was $54 billion in the red. In a decade the annual shortfall will reach $215 billion – after adjusting for inflation.


What it basically means is that unless the SSA program is changed, the checks that SSTF beneficiaries will get will be reduced significantly. If you add in the Disability Insurance (DI) into the mix you get the total OASDI program: (OAS - Old Age & Survivors)

The Trustees also project that annual cost for the OASDI program will exceed non-interest income throughout the projection period, and will exceed total income beginning in 2022 under the intermediate assumptions. The projected hypothetical combined OASI and DI Trust Fund asset reserves increase through 2021, begin to decline in 2022, and become depleted and unable to pay scheduled benefits in full on a timely basis in 2034. At the time of depletion of these combined reserves, continuing income to the combined trust funds would be sufficient to pay 77 percent of scheduled benefits.


The good news is that this problem can be averted. It's called "the Chilean Model," as 2012 presidential candidate Herman Cain put it, in what was his effort to get the voters to get serious about the issue.

The Chilean Model, the system of private savings accounts for retirement, is practiced in 30 countries. It was developed on a nationwide scale by José Piñera, the former labor minister of Chile during the 1970s, when the country was a socialist rubble and the coffers were bare, and it has worked every time it's been tried.


https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2017/tr2017.pdf

No worries. The Republicans will be in a permanent minority by then, and taxes will be raised on the rich and corporations where they were before Reagan.

 

[skews13]

Good thing i have a 401K

401k was designed as a bonus for top executives. It was never intended to be the only means for workers to save for retirement. You can thank Reagan for that to. We need to go back to requiring companies to set up pensions for their workers like it used to be. The 401k scam is the biggest scam, besides tax cuts for rich people ever perpetrated on the American people. This to will be dealt with in time.

 

[Political Junky]

Cons are stupid, they believe this every time it's said for decades.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You can say many things about a fund with 100% US Treasury Bonds, mismanaged probably isn't one of them.

The SS TFund hasn't hasn't had actual Treasury Bonds put in there in several decades now. Just "inter agency transfer notes" AKA IOUs. They and the CBO acknowledge that fact in the links I provided.

Treasury Bonds is what the Treasury has to sell TODAY to cover every penny of the SS Shortfall. NOTHING OF VALUE comes OUT of the purloined Trust Fund. EVERY PENNY of shortfall is NEW DEBT on the backs of the folks who got their surplus ROBBED -- or their children.

The SS TFund hasn't hasn't had actual Treasury Bonds put in there in several decades now. Just "inter agency transfer notes" AKA IOUs. They and the CBO acknowledge that fact in the links I provided.

Yup. And they earn the exact same interest as if they were Treasury Bonds, so?

Treasury Bonds is what the Treasury has to sell TODAY to cover every penny of the SS Shortfall.

Yup.

NOTHING OF VALUE comes OUT of the purloined Trust Fund.

Yup.

EVERY PENNY of shortfall is NEW DEBT on the backs of the folks who got their surplus ROBBED

If the Treasury has to sell $10 billion this month to cover SS payments, that's not new debt on the backs of the "folks", that's $10 billion in new Public Debt and $10 billion less debt held by the Trust Fund.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Each year the trustees for the SSTF are required to publish a report to the President and the Congress on the financial condition of the SSTF. This year it came out last friday afternoon, and it ain't good. Excerpts:

The Social Security report finds that the "trust fund" will run out of money in just 17 years. The news only gets worse from there.

The program's unfunded liability over the next 75 years is now $12.5 trillion, which is up from $11.4 trillion last year and $4.7 trillion a decade ago. In other words, Social Security's long-term unfunded liability has increased by 166% in the span of 10 years.

And on a cash flow basis, Social Security is now losing money every year. Last year it was $54 billion in the red. In a decade the annual shortfall will reach $215 billion – after adjusting for inflation.


What it basically means is that unless the SSA program is changed, the checks that SSTF beneficiaries will get will be reduced significantly. If you add in the Disability Insurance (DI) into the mix you get the total OASDI program: (OAS - Old Age & Survivors)

The Trustees also project that annual cost for the OASDI program will exceed non-interest income throughout the projection period, and will exceed total income beginning in 2022 under the intermediate assumptions. The projected hypothetical combined OASI and DI Trust Fund asset reserves increase through 2021, begin to decline in 2022, and become depleted and unable to pay scheduled benefits in full on a timely basis in 2034. At the time of depletion of these combined reserves, continuing income to the combined trust funds would be sufficient to pay 77 percent of scheduled benefits.


The good news is that this problem can be averted. It's called "the Chilean Model," as 2012 presidential candidate Herman Cain put it, in what was his effort to get the voters to get serious about the issue.

The Chilean Model, the system of private savings accounts for retirement, is practiced in 30 countries. It was developed on a nationwide scale by José Piñera, the former labor minister of Chile during the 1970s, when the country was a socialist rubble and the coffers were bare, and it has worked every time it's been tried.


https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2017/tr2017.pdf

No worries. The Republicans will be in a permanent minority by then, and taxes will be raised on the rich and corporations where they were before Reagan.

Why wait?
Dems should run in 2018 and 2020 on raising the top individual rate to 90% and the corporate rate to 46%.
And total confiscation of firearms.
And open borders.

 

[flacaltenn]

You can say many things about a fund with 100% US Treasury Bonds, mismanaged probably isn't one of them.

The SS TFund hasn't hasn't had actual Treasury Bonds put in there in several decades now. Just "inter agency transfer notes" AKA IOUs. They and the CBO acknowledge that fact in the links I provided.

Treasury Bonds is what the Treasury has to sell TODAY to cover every penny of the SS Shortfall. NOTHING OF VALUE comes OUT of the purloined Trust Fund. EVERY PENNY of shortfall is NEW DEBT on the backs of the folks who got their surplus ROBBED -- or their children.

The SS TFund hasn't hasn't had actual Treasury Bonds put in there in several decades now. Just "inter agency transfer notes" AKA IOUs. They and the CBO acknowledge that fact in the links I provided.

Yup. And they earn the exact same interest as if they were Treasury Bonds, so?

Treasury Bonds is what the Treasury has to sell TODAY to cover every penny of the SS Shortfall.

Yup.

NOTHING OF VALUE comes OUT of the purloined Trust Fund.

Yup.

EVERY PENNY of shortfall is NEW DEBT on the backs of the folks who got their surplus ROBBED

If the Treasury has to sell $10 billion this month to cover SS payments, that's not new debt on the backs of the "folks", that's $10 billion in new Public Debt and $10 billion less debt held by the Trust Fund.

We've been over that. A T-Bond pays interest EVERY YEAR. It comes out of budgeted amounts provided for that purpose. NEVER has SS Trust Fund been budgeted for interest payments. It's all paid with NEW MONEY when the "fund" runs in deficit -- like NOW.. It's also transferable and has a fluctuating market value -- the IOUs in the Trust Fund CANNOT be transferred or redeeemed on market.

Does it make it make you better that misrepresent this?

If the Treasury has to sell $10 billion this month to cover SS payments, that's not new debt on the backs of the "folks", that's $10 billion in new Public Debt and $10 billion less debt held by the Trust Fund.

It IS on the backs of current and future taxpayers. It's NEW DEBT. Because nothing of value is actually in the fund to pay ANYTHING. And there's been no "accrual of interest" as there would be on REAL bonds. Don't know HOW that makes you feel better about getting robbed TWICE for the same amount PLUS --- 2 times the interest on the original debt..

There was never any investment. Only larceny and deception and mismanagement.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You can say many things about a fund with 100% US Treasury Bonds, mismanaged probably isn't one of them.

The SS TFund hasn't hasn't had actual Treasury Bonds put in there in several decades now. Just "inter agency transfer notes" AKA IOUs. They and the CBO acknowledge that fact in the links I provided.

Treasury Bonds is what the Treasury has to sell TODAY to cover every penny of the SS Shortfall. NOTHING OF VALUE comes OUT of the purloined Trust Fund. EVERY PENNY of shortfall is NEW DEBT on the backs of the folks who got their surplus ROBBED -- or their children.

The SS TFund hasn't hasn't had actual Treasury Bonds put in there in several decades now. Just "inter agency transfer notes" AKA IOUs. They and the CBO acknowledge that fact in the links I provided.

Yup. And they earn the exact same interest as if they were Treasury Bonds, so?

Treasury Bonds is what the Treasury has to sell TODAY to cover every penny of the SS Shortfall.

Yup.

NOTHING OF VALUE comes OUT of the purloined Trust Fund.

Yup.

EVERY PENNY of shortfall is NEW DEBT on the backs of the folks who got their surplus ROBBED

If the Treasury has to sell $10 billion this month to cover SS payments, that's not new debt on the backs of the "folks", that's $10 billion in new Public Debt and $10 billion less debt held by the Trust Fund.

We've been over that. A T-Bond pays interest EVERY YEAR. It comes out of budgeted amounts provided for that purpose. NEVER has SS Trust Fund been budgeted for interest payments. It's all paid with NEW MONEY when the "fund" runs in deficit -- like NOW.. It's also transferable and has a fluctuating market value -- the IOUs in the Trust Fund CANNOT be transferred or redeeemed on market.

Does it make it make you better that misrepresent this?

If the Treasury has to sell $10 billion this month to cover SS payments, that's not new debt on the backs of the "folks", that's $10 billion in new Public Debt and $10 billion less debt held by the Trust Fund.

It IS on the backs of current and future taxpayers. It's NEW DEBT. Because nothing of value is actually in the fund to pay ANYTHING. And there's been no "accrual of interest" as there would be on REAL bonds. Don't know HOW that makes you feel better about getting robbed TWICE for the same amount PLUS --- 2 times the interest on the original debt..

There was never any investment. Only larceny and deception and mismanagement.

A T-Bond pays interest EVERY YEAR. It comes out of budgeted amounts provided for that purpose.

That's an interesting claim.
What's the amounted budgeted for interest this year?
Is it in a funding bill that was passed?
I wonder how they know ahead of time what the interest is that they'll owe on new bonds, bills and notes
that they haven't even sold yet.

It IS on the backs of current and future taxpayers. It's NEW DEBT.

Nope, it's more public debt, less Trust Fund debt.
Net change is zero.

Because nothing of value is actually in the fund to pay ANYTHING.

It has the same value as any other Treasury debt someone holds.

And there's been no "accrual of interest"

Sure there is. The government paid interest to the Trust Fund that they would have paid to a public holder, if the Trust Fund hadn't bought the debt instead.

Don't know HOW that makes you feel better about getting robbed TWICE for the same amount PLUS --- 2 times the interest on the original debt.

Make no mistake about it, I'd much rather have been investing my SocSec taxes myself all these years, I'd have a shitload more than I do know, but I'm just correcting your poor understanding of accounting.

 

[flacaltenn]

That's an interesting claim.
What's the amounted budgeted for interest this year?
Is it in a funding bill that was passed?
I wonder how they know ahead of time what the interest is that they'll owe on new bonds, bills and notes
that they haven't even sold yet.

The amount of interest on issued debt is a stable KNOWN expense. It's budgeted way ahead of time to pay. And the CASH transactions are all made on schedule. Don't jive me about "New bonds....... that haven't been sold yet". That shows up on the NEXT year budget. And to boot --- THEY DON'T FUCKING CARE about increasing the budget with ballooning debt payments. If the interest goes up -- it will surpass almost every OTHER budgeted item..

Nope, it's more public debt, less Trust Fund debt.
Net change is zero.

Who do you think PAYS for "public debt"?? What VALUE was taken out of "Trust Fund" that actually helped for SS deficit? NOTHING --- that's right.. So what was in the Trust Fund WAS useless DEBT --- Not Treasury Bonds. NOW ---- you're getting it.. No investment. Just larceny and misrepresentation. SS IS BROKE NOW. There is no liquidity in there. THere's no 17 more years until it can't pay the bills. YOU are paying the same bill AGAIN today..

They Stole X dollars out of your paycheck. Wants YOU and your children to PAY X dollars plus 2 times the interest for THEIR THEFT.. Now that the SS is flat broke --- YOU have to cover any shortfalls BECAUSE there is nothing of value in the SS trust fund.

If you wanted VALUE in the SS Trust Fund -- they SHOULD have soaked up EXISTING public debt from open T-Bond markets -- taken it OUT of the markets -- reduced the public debt with the SS surpluses WHILE THE SURPLUSES EXISTED. But they SPENT that money on asinine things and put NOTHING of future worth into the fund.

Do you see the diff? NOTHING was bought with that money that paid ANY value into future TFund liabilities.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's an interesting claim.
What's the amounted budgeted for interest this year?
Is it in a funding bill that was passed?
I wonder how they know ahead of time what the interest is that they'll owe on new bonds, bills and notes
that they haven't even sold yet.

The amount of interest on issued debt is a stable KNOWN expense. It's budgeted way ahead of time to pay. And the CASH transactions are all made on schedule. Don't jive me about "New bonds....... that haven't been sold yet". That shows up on the NEXT year budget. And to boot --- THEY DON'T FUCKING CARE about increasing the budget with ballooning debt payments. If the interest goes up -- it will surpass almost every OTHER budgeted item..

Nope, it's more public debt, less Trust Fund debt.
Net change is zero.

Who do you think PAYS for "public debt"?? What VALUE was taken out of "Trust Fund" that actually helped for SS deficit? NOTHING --- that's right.. So what was in the Trust Fund WAS useless DEBT --- Not Treasury Bonds. NOW ---- you're getting it.. No investment. Just larceny and misrepresentation. SS IS BROKE NOW. There is no liquidity in there. THere's no 17 more years until it can't pay the bills. YOU are paying the same bill AGAIN today..

They Stole X dollars out of your paycheck. Wants YOU and your children to PAY X dollars plus 2 times the interest for THEIR THEFT.. Now that the SS is flat broke --- YOU have to cover any shortfalls BECAUSE there is nothing of value in the SS trust fund.

If you wanted VALUE in the SS Trust Fund -- they SHOULD have soaked up EXISTING public debt from open T-Bond markets -- taken it OUT of the markets -- reduced the public debt with the SS surpluses WHILE THE SURPLUSES EXISTED. But they SPENT that money on asinine things and put NOTHING of future worth into the fund.

Do you see the diff? NOTHING was bought with that money that paid ANY value into future TFund liabilities.

The amount of interest on issued debt is a stable KNOWN expense.

It's a line item? Cool. What's the line item amount in the last budget?

Don't jive me about "New bonds....... that haven't been sold yet". That shows up on the NEXT year budget.

Interest on 28 day bills is in next years budget? That money comes due way before next years budget.

Who do you think PAYS for "public debt"??

We do.

What VALUE was taken out of "Trust Fund" that actually helped for SS deficit? NOTHING --- that's right..

What are you talking about?

In your left pocket is an IOU for $100.
In your right pocket is an IOU for $100.
Total of $200.

If next year the one in the right pocket says $110 and the one in left pocket says $90, how much is the total?


So what was in the Trust Fund WAS useless DEBT --- Not Treasury Bonds.

Does the Treasury give the Trust Fund money in exchange for the "useless debt"?
Then it must not be useless, eh?

They Stole X dollars out of your paycheck. Wants YOU and your children to PAY

Yup, they took money out of my paycheck and gave it to retired people.
Of course they want my children to pay me in the future.

If you wanted VALUE in the SS Trust Fund -- they SHOULD have soaked up EXISTING public debt from open T-Bond markets -- taken it OUT of the markets -- reduced the public debt with the SS surpluses WHILE THE SURPLUSES EXISTED.

By buying the non-tradable bonds that they bought, they reduced the amount of debt issued to the public.

Do you see the diff?

Yes, I see your confusion. There is no diff.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Social Security Trust Fund will go broke in 17 years

The impending exhaustion of the Social Security Trust Fund (SSTF) is not news. It was noted at least as far back as the Reagan years. Insofar as it was, workers have long had two choices: prepare adequately for that eventuality or don't. For those who headed the warning and are prepared, it won't matter. For those who ignored the warning, it'll matter to them, but it'll be their problem to deal with, not everyone else's.

One can say "they promised this and that," but "they" also informed the nation that the SSTF would run out of money. One can either take those two realities into consideration and, in one's own best interest, act accordingly to mitigate the impact one suffers when the first "promise" does not come to fruition, or not. I simply will not feel very sympathetic for ones who chose the latter course.

Why is the SS trust fund going broke, but WELFARE isn't?

War on poverty cost
The War on Poverty has cost $22 trillion -- three times more than what the government has spent on all wars in American history. Federal and state governments spend $1 trillion in taxpayer dollars on America's 80 means-tested welfare programs annually.
The War on Poverty Has Cost $22 Trillion
ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?article_id=25288

Stop paying young worthless liberals to sit on their sorry asses, take the money put it to the national debt and soon no debt and plenty of money for those who worked hard to retire...