Social scientists agree..welfare increases criminality, poverty, dysfunction

[NYcarbineer]

Liar.

When you use the word "logical fallacy" it helps if you know what it is.

I know exactly what it is:

Fallacy: Post Hoc

Now prove your claim doesn't fall into that category,

or shut up and quit making a fool of yourself.

That was easy. It did shut her up. On this anyway.

 

[koshergrl]

You didn't shut me up, nitwit. I just don't waste much time on idiots.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

the cato institute??? really?

Indeed.

The profound ignorance of the right concerning public assistance is remarkable, just as remarkable is their willingness to exhibit that ignorance. Obviously a consequence of their blind hatred of such programs, exacerbated by the false information perpetuated by conservative dogma.

So why did you choose your subject heading the way you did? Were you intentionally dishonest, or are you just a moron?

Both, actually.

 

[jillian]

"The Maryland NAACP recently concluded that "the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today." Welfare contributes to crime by destroying the family structure and breaking down the bonds of community. Moreover, it contributes to the social marginalization of young black men by making them irrelevant to the family. Their role has been supplanted by the welfare check. "

Welfare Reform - March 9, 1995

This is from 1995. Nearly half the births in the US are now out of wedlock.
This isn't a good thing but it crosses at socio-economic and racial barriers now.

you must spread some reputation around... yadda yadda yadda...

 

[Peach]

Original post, CORRECT. POVERTY gives rise to these problems.

 

[koshergrl]

the cato institute??? really?

Indeed.

The profound ignorance of the right concerning public assistance is remarkable, just as remarkable is their willingness to exhibit that ignorance. Obviously a consequence of their blind hatred of such programs, exacerbated by the false information perpetuated by conservative dogma.

Specifics, please. What false information are you referring to?

So why did you choose your subject heading the way you did? Were you intentionally dishonest, or are you just a moron?

Both, actually.

You bet.

 

[rightwinger]

I am with koshergirl, the obvious answer is to cut their aid.

Suffering encourages people to get married

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Social scientists may dispute the degree of linkage between welfare and illegitimacy, but the vast majority agree that there is some connection. Even William Galston, President Clinton's Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs, says that the welfare system is responsible for at least 15 to 20 percent of the family disintegration in America. Others, such as Charles Murray, attribute as much as 50 percent of illegitimacy to welfare. I believe that any objective look at the available literature on this topic indicates a strong correlation between the availability of welfare and out-of-wedlock births."

Welfare Reform - March 9, 1995

Welfare is intimately associated with a kind of social poverty, and with family dissolution.

1. The colloquial use of “poverty” implies a material deprivation, which hardly exists. But this is not to say that a poverty of social conditions does not exist, and this cannot be remedied with money. In fact, the root cause of this poverty is the perverse, counterproductive incentives arising from the welfare system itself.

2. Charles Murray’s “Losing Ground” documented this effect using social indicators such as work, marriage, legitimacy, crime, and alcohol and drug abuse, and showing how the massive increase in government welfare programs worsened the problem.

3. A key to why ‘poverty’ ceased to decline almost as soon as the ‘War on Poverty’ began, is that the poor and lower-income population stopped working, and this led to the other deteriorating social conditions Murray cites. In 1960, almost 2/3 of lowest-income households were headed by persons who worked. http://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-080.pdf

a. By 1991, this number was down to only one third….and only 11% working full time. Nor was this due to being unable to find work, as the ‘80’s and ‘90’s were boom times.
See chapter five of Ferrara's "America's Ticking Bankruptcy Bomb."

 

[The T]

"Forty-five percent of
black women managers or professionals have had an illegitimate child,
compared to 3 percent of managerial or professional whites. Half of all
births in New York City are illegitimate, and in some neighborhoods the
proportion reaches 80 percent. A 1997 survey by the federal government
found that the percentage of black high-school students who said they
have had sex was 73 percent, versus 44 percent for whites and 52 percent
for Hispanics.

"But it hasn't always been this way. In 1940, the black illegitimacy
rate was 19 percent, less than what it is for whites now."
http://jkalb.freeshell.org/rants/illegitimacy.html

But I thought birth control and abortion were supposed to stem the flow of illegitimate birth, out of wedlock birth, and poverty! Seems to have had the opposite effect, no?

50% of all births in the US are to single parent households. This will only increase as our government enables and encourages this behavior. Mainly from the left side of the isle.

Key word. And the fact that Obama and the Congress have done damage, and contiue to damage the private sector will result in more of a rise.

The WANT dependency...so they may rule.

 

[Vast LWC]

So... Let me see if I have this straight.

You all seem to feel that:

1. Women should not be allowed contraception
2. Women should not be allowed to have abortions.
3. Women should not be supported by the public if they have children and are unable to afford them.

So, I guess what you're saying is, no-one should be allowed to have sex, unless they're married and rich?

Wow, not for nothing, but that seems like a really shitty country to live in.

Sounds like a home for a bunch of frigid prudes.

Not to mention the fact that that is never, ever going to happen, so trying to promote such a philosophy as a serious platform for governing is damn stupid.

 

[Old Rocks]

"Social scientists may dispute the degree of linkage between welfare and illegitimacy, but the vast majority agree that there is some connection. Even William Galston, President Clinton's Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs, says that the welfare system is responsible for at least 15 to 20 percent of the family disintegration in America. Others, such as Charles Murray, attribute as much as 50 percent of illegitimacy to welfare. I believe that any objective look at the available literature on this topic indicates a strong correlation between the availability of welfare and out-of-wedlock births."

Welfare Reform - March 9, 1995

By God, if they starve to death as children, they cannot be criminals, can they? What an elegant solution.

 

[Full-Auto]

"Forty-five percent of
black women managers or professionals have had an illegitimate child,
compared to 3 percent of managerial or professional whites. Half of all
births in New York City are illegitimate, and in some neighborhoods the
proportion reaches 80 percent. A 1997 survey by the federal government
found that the percentage of black high-school students who said they
have had sex was 73 percent, versus 44 percent for whites and 52 percent
for Hispanics.

"But it hasn't always been this way. In 1940, the black illegitimacy
rate was 19 percent, less than what it is for whites now."
http://jkalb.freeshell.org/rants/illegitimacy.html

But I thought birth control and abortion were supposed to stem the flow of illegitimate birth, out of wedlock birth, and poverty! Seems to have had the opposite effect, no?

50% of all births in the US are to single parent households. This will only increase as our government enables and encourages this behavior. Mainly from the left side of the isle.

Key word. And the fact that Obama and the Congress have done damage, and contiue to damage the private sector will result in more of a rise.

The WANT dependency...so they may rule.

Rep guns out, sorry brother. Oh O you made the list.

 

[koshergrl]

"Social scientists may dispute the degree of linkage between welfare and illegitimacy, but the vast majority agree that there is some connection. Even William Galston, President Clinton's Deputy Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs, says that the welfare system is responsible for at least 15 to 20 percent of the family disintegration in America. Others, such as Charles Murray, attribute as much as 50 percent of illegitimacy to welfare. I believe that any objective look at the available literature on this topic indicates a strong correlation between the availability of welfare and out-of-wedlock births."

Welfare Reform - March 9, 1995

By God, if they starve to death as children, they cannot be criminals, can they? What an elegant solution.

What are you talking about? Cripes you people need to smoke less dope.

 

[The T]

50% of all births in the US are to single parent households. This will only increase as our government enables and encourages this behavior. Mainly from the left side of the isle.

Key word. And the fact that Obama and the Congress have done damage, and contiue to damage the private sector will result in more of a rise.

The WANT dependency...so they may rule.

Rep guns out, sorry brother. Oh O you made the list.

I made the list?

 

[bripat9643]

"Forty-five percent of
black women managers or professionals have had an illegitimate child,
compared to 3 percent of managerial or professional whites. Half of all
births in New York City are illegitimate, and in some neighborhoods the
proportion reaches 80 percent. A 1997 survey by the federal government
found that the percentage of black high-school students who said they
have had sex was 73 percent, versus 44 percent for whites and 52 percent
for Hispanics.

"But it hasn't always been this way. In 1940, the black illegitimacy
rate was 19 percent, less than what it is for whites now."
http://jkalb.freeshell.org/rants/illegitimacy.html

But I thought birth control and abortion were supposed to stem the flow of illegitimate birth, out of wedlock birth, and poverty! Seems to have had the opposite effect, no?

Logical fallacy, and one of the most retarded ones I've heard lately.

What is the "logical fallacy," disputing the liberal received wisdom?

You don't even know what a logical fallacy is.

 

[bripat9643]

Logical fallacy, and one of the most retarded ones I've heard lately.

Bullshit....

I've never seen a fine, law abiding and safe community where the majority are on welfare.

You ever been to a housing project???

You ever been to a low income community???

It's not a fucking fallacy - fuck, I could prove it...

There is more crime (violent crime especially) in low income areas than areas with less poverty - middle class/upper middle class/rich.

If you look at a map of the crime rate in an urban area, you'll find the mountain peaks centered directly over government housing projects. In Tampa, when the bulldozed the housing projects, the crime problem disappeared.

 

[koshergrl]

No, he doesn't. He was stung by having his irrelevant idiocies tagged as logical fallacy, so now he's going to apply the label to the posts of anyone he doesn't agree with...and he still doesn't know what it means.

 

[bripat9643]

Liar.

When you use the word "logical fallacy" it helps if you know what it is.

I know exactly what it is:

Fallacy: Post Hoc

Now prove your claim doesn't fall into that category,

or shut up and quit making a fool of yourself.

That would rule out virtually every liberal theory of society.

Sure you want to go there?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I am with koshergirl, the obvious answer is to cut their aid.

Suffering encourages people to get married

What has happened to you???

Are you actually clueless...or is this simply a political post with no basis in reality.

Fact: withdraw the self respect garnered via working, and family life suffers, and marriages break apart...your post to the contrary notwithstanding.

Again: the good intentions of Leftist welfare schemes have the opposite result than intended.


Proof?
Sure.
The government conducted a study, 1971-1978 known as the Seattle-Denver Income Maintenance Experiment, or SIME-DIME, in which low income families were give a guaranteed income, a welfare package with everything liberal policy makers could hope for. Result: for every dollar of extra welfare given, low income recipients reduced their labor by 80 cents.
http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/12794.pdf

a. Further results: dissolution of families: “This conclusion was unambiguously unfavorable to advocates of a negative income tax that would cover married couples, for two important reasons.
First, increased
marital breakups among the poor would increase the numbers on
welfare and the amount of transfer payments, principally because the
separated wife and children would receive higher transfer payments.

Second, marital dissolutions and the usual accompanying absence of
fathers from households with children are generally considered unfavorable outcomes regardless of whether or not the welfare rolls increase.” http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/conf/conf30/conf30c.pdf

b. “When families received guaranteed income at 90% of the poverty level, there was a 43% increase in black family dissolution and a 63% increase in white family dissolution. At 125% of the poverty levels, dissolutions were 75% and 40%.”
Robert B. Carleson, “Government Is The Problem,” p. 57.


Folks on the Left, like yourself, no matter your intentions, have become the problem, not the solution.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Forty-five percent of
black women managers or professionals have had an illegitimate child,
compared to 3 percent of managerial or professional whites. Half of all
births in New York City are illegitimate, and in some neighborhoods the
proportion reaches 80 percent. A 1997 survey by the federal government
found that the percentage of black high-school students who said they
have had sex was 73 percent, versus 44 percent for whites and 52 percent
for Hispanics.

"But it hasn't always been this way. In 1940, the black illegitimacy
rate was 19 percent, less than what it is for whites now."
http://jkalb.freeshell.org/rants/illegitimacy.html

But I thought birth control and abortion were supposed to stem the flow of illegitimate birth, out of wedlock birth, and poverty! Seems to have had the opposite effect, no?

Logical fallacy, and one of the most retarded ones I've heard lately.

Bullshit....

I've never seen a fine, law abiding and safe community where the majority are on welfare.

You ever been to a housing project???

You ever been to a low income community???

It's not a fucking fallacy - fuck, I could prove it...

There is more crime (violent crime especially) in low income areas than areas with less poverty - middle class/upper middle class/rich.

You are, of course, 100% correct.

Liberal policies do nothing to help folks out of poverty...they maintain poverty.


1. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Such should be the epitaph of Liberalism.

2. ‘Welfare’ as a wholly owned subsidiary of the government, and its main result is the incentivizing of a disrespect for oneself, and for the entity that provides the welfare. As more folks in a poor neighborhood languish with little or no work, entire local culture begins to change: daily work is no longer the expected social norm. Extended periods of hanging around the neighborhood, neither working nor going to school becoming more and more socially acceptable.

a. Since productive activity not making any economic sense because of the work disincentives of the welfare plantation, other kinds of activities proliferate: drug and alcohol abuse, crime, recreational sex, illegitimacy, and family breakup are the new social norms, as does the culture of violence.

b. "The lessons of history … show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit."

These searing words about Depression-era welfare are from Franklin Roosevelt's 1935 State of the Union Address.