Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich

[editec]

Ironically tax breaks turn out to be inflationary.

Except the types of things they inflate are investments.

And then the bubbles burst.

If capitalism can be described as a pyramid, one wonders why people continuously fail to understand that when the bottom of the pyramid crumbles it doesn't matter how solid the bricks at the top are.

Trickle down economics doesn't really work, folks.

 

[Xenophon]

These threads are hilarious. Why anyone would defend the rich and wealthy is beyond me, it is sorta like 'the sermon on the mount' has been reversed and it is the rich who need our help. Too funny, actually rather absurd.

The true aburdity is watching people like you try to justify stealing other people's things, be they money or valuables.

Your inane concepts of tribal sharing belong back in the stone age, or at least in the 19th century fantasy world of Marx & Engels.

You see, you are all for stealing something from someone else, but if it is decided something YOU have should be taken 'for the greater good' you would have a shit coniption and probaly a stroke from whining how it ain't fair, especailly if you have no say in it, that it was decided by some group of people you never met and don't like.

 

[HUGGY]

These threads are hilarious. Why anyone would defend the rich and wealthy is beyond me, it is sorta like 'the sermon on the mount' has been reversed and it is the rich who need our help. Too funny, actually rather absurd.

The true aburdity is watching people like you try to justify stealing other people's things, be they money or valuables.

Your inane concepts of tribal sharing belong back in the stone age, or at least in the 19th century fantasy world of Marx & Engels.

You see, you are all for stealing something from someone else, but if it is decided something YOU have should be taken 'for the greater good' you would have a shit coniption and probaly a stroke from whining how it ain't fair, especailly if you have no say in it, that it was decided by some group of people you never met and don't like.

Stealing is starting an illegal and unneccesary trillion dollar war, borrowing the money to pay for it, and not putting its cost on the books.

 

[Xenophon]

Stealing is starting an illegal and unneccesary trillion dollar war, borrowing the money to pay for it, and not putting its cost on the books.

Couple of things here, first, I always opposed the over seas 'adventures.'

Second, there is no such thing as a 'leagal' or 'illeagal' war, wars between nations are not fought in court rooms.

The thrid is that these stupid wars have been going on since 1941, its not something chimptastic invented.

 

[Old Rocks]

let's SOAK the middle class instead, to pay for all of congress's bailouts to Wall Street and spending sprees, that'll work! It will at least keep the Rich happy!

How about the Gov takes care of defense and infrastructure and gets out of all the other little businesses they inserted themsleves into, and then they hardly need to tax anybody.

Yessiree! Who the hell needs their peanut butter inspected! And that dumb CDC is just a waste of money!

Seems to me that it was the big businesses that begged the government to save their asses from their bad decisions. If we have to do that to save the nation the trauma of a Second Great Republican Depression, so be it. But the bastards that created this situation need to be the ones that pay for it. And those bastards are the people who made vast profits off of the advanced Ponzi scheme that Wall Street foisted on us for the last couple of decades. Yes, tax the hell out of them, that would be just.

 

[editec]

Taxes are theft only to the degree that government fails to do its job.

Of course if you think that the job of government is to do nothing but protect the wealthy from the poor then the only cash you'll want government to spend is money spend on police, courts and the military.

That's basically the government system of the feudal period.

If you think the job of government is to promote a viable society with liberty and justice for all, then your government is going to need a whole lot more money.

 

[Xenophon]

let's SOAK the middle class instead, to pay for all of congress's bailouts to Wall Street and spending sprees, that'll work! It will at least keep the Rich happy!

How about the Gov takes care of defense and infrastructure and gets out of all the other little businesses they inserted themsleves into, and then they hardly need to tax anybody.

Yessiree! Who the hell needs their peanut butter inspected! And that dumb CDC is just a waste of money!

Seems to me that it was the big businesses that begged the government to save their asses from their bad decisions. If we have to do that to save the nation the trauma of a Second Great Republican Depression, so be it. But the bastards that created this situation need to be the ones that pay for it. And those bastards are the people who made vast profits off of the advanced Ponzi scheme that Wall Street foisted on us for the last couple of decades. Yes, tax the hell out of them, that would be just.

I just love who you prove you are a hypocrite over and over again.

In another thread you try to claim you are with editic and myself in our view of big government, and then you jump right back in to big brother land first chance you get!

 

[Old Rocks]

These threads are hilarious. Why anyone would defend the rich and wealthy is beyond me, it is sorta like 'the sermon on the mount' has been reversed and it is the rich who need our help. Too funny, actually rather absurd.

The true aburdity is watching people like you try to justify stealing other people's things, be they money or valuables.

Your inane concepts of tribal sharing belong back in the stone age, or at least in the 19th century fantasy world of Marx & Engels.

You see, you are all for stealing something from someone else, but if it is decided something YOU have should be taken 'for the greater good' you would have a shit coniption and probaly a stroke from whining how it ain't fair, especailly if you have no say in it, that it was decided by some group of people you never met and don't like.

The Goddamned theives did not do the work that created the wealth. The fellow on the factory floor did. A few, like Gates, created new industries, and some, like Buffet, are extroidenery business managers, but most are nothing but thieves.

A CEO is a hireling. Just as I am. Yet, as a trademan, I see them making 500 times what I make, and do their jobs damned incompetantly enough that they have almost brought this nation into bankruptcy. And both Gates and Buffet state that the wealthy do not pay their share of taxes.

 

[Old Rocks]

How about the Gov takes care of defense and infrastructure and gets out of all the other little businesses they inserted themsleves into, and then they hardly need to tax anybody.

Yessiree! Who the hell needs their peanut butter inspected! And that dumb CDC is just a waste of money!

Seems to me that it was the big businesses that begged the government to save their asses from their bad decisions. If we have to do that to save the nation the trauma of a Second Great Republican Depression, so be it. But the bastards that created this situation need to be the ones that pay for it. And those bastards are the people who made vast profits off of the advanced Ponzi scheme that Wall Street foisted on us for the last couple of decades. Yes, tax the hell out of them, that would be just.

I just love who you prove you are a hypocrite over and over again.

In another thread you try to claim you are with editic and myself in our view of big government, and then you jump right back in to big brother land first chance you get!

There are nations that have a reasonable approach to societies responsibilities to all of it's citizens, and still have wealthy people. One tries to get what one pays for. High taxes that aid a high standard of living for the citizens of a nation is a reasonable proposition. Low taxes, a declining standard of living for the most of society, increasing inequity between classes, that is the sure way to third world status.

Big government or small government is a false choice. The real debate is government for the general welfare of all, or government for the protection of the moneyed class. Right now, you seem to be supporting the latter.

 

[HUGGY]

Stealing is starting an illegal and unneccesary trillion dollar war, borrowing the money to pay for it, and not putting its cost on the books.

Couple of things here, first, I always opposed the over seas 'adventures.'

Second, there is no such thing as a 'leagal' or 'illeagal' war, wars between nations are not fought in court rooms.

The thrid is that these stupid wars have been going on since 1941, its not something chimptastic invented.

I agree with the above statement 100%. Viet Nam was a huge missadventure. Kennedy was responsible for one of the biggest mistakes our country was ever engaged in.
"The threat of Communism" was the biggest red herring ever. Communists are morons that can't even get out of thier own way. They are a joke. It never ceases to amaze me what the American public will fall for.

As far as "illegality."..I am refering to the collusion, the subtrafuge and lies that were told to faltsly sell the public on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and the outing of Valerie Plame(treason) who was tracking actual weapons of mass desruction in the mid east.

I consider it illegal to lie us into military conflict.

 

[Old Rocks]

Stealing is starting an illegal and unneccesary trillion dollar war, borrowing the money to pay for it, and not putting its cost on the books.

Couple of things here, first, I always opposed the over seas 'adventures.'

Second, there is no such thing as a 'leagal' or 'illeagal' war, wars between nations are not fought in court rooms.

The thrid is that these stupid wars have been going on since 1941, its not something chimptastic invented.

I agree with the above statement 100%. Viet Nam was a huge missadventure. Kennedy was responsible for one of the biggest mistakes our country was ever engaged in.
"The threat of Communism" was the biggest red herring ever. Communists are morons that can't even get out of thier own way. They are a joke. It never ceases to amaze me what the American public will fall for.

As far as "illegality."..I am refering to the collusion, the subtrafuge and lies that were told to faltsly sell the public on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and the outing of Valerie Plame(treason) who was tracking actual weapons of mass desruction in the mid east.

I consider it illegal to lie us into military conflict.

Actually, it was Eisenhower that got us involved in the first place. Kennedy increased the involvement, but was considering exit statigies at time he was assinnated. Johnson put us into 'Nam to where we could not withdraw without seeing it as a national defeat.

 

[Xenophon]

These threads are hilarious. Why anyone would defend the rich and wealthy is beyond me, it is sorta like 'the sermon on the mount' has been reversed and it is the rich who need our help. Too funny, actually rather absurd.

The true aburdity is watching people like you try to justify stealing other people's things, be they money or valuables.

Your inane concepts of tribal sharing belong back in the stone age, or at least in the 19th century fantasy world of Marx & Engels.

You see, you are all for stealing something from someone else, but if it is decided something YOU have should be taken 'for the greater good' you would have a shit coniption and probaly a stroke from whining how it ain't fair, especailly if you have no say in it, that it was decided by some group of people you never met and don't like.

The Goddamned theives did not do the work that created the wealth. The fellow on the factory floor did. A few, like Gates, created new industries, and some, like Buffet, are extroidenery business managers, but most are nothing but thieves.

A CEO is a hireling. Just as I am. Yet, as a trademan, I see them making 500 times what I make, and do their jobs damned incompetantly enough that they have almost brought this nation into bankruptcy. And both Gates and Buffet state that the wealthy do not pay their share of taxes.

I have read this speech before, it was more amusing when it had the line 'workers of the world unite'.

 

[Xenophon]

There are nations that have a reasonable approach to societies responsibilities to all of it's citizens, and still have wealthy people. One tries to get what one pays for. High taxes that aid a high standard of living for the citizens of a nation is a reasonable proposition. Low taxes, a declining standard of living for the most of society, increasing inequity between classes, that is the sure way to third world status.

Again with the socialism-r-us theme, those nations are in fact in serious trouble now.

Why?

Because the money making capitalists that helped keep them above water are in trouble now.

Big government or small government is a false choice. The real debate is government for the general welfare of all, or government for the protection of the moneyed class. Right now, you seem to be supporting the latter.

No, what you just presented was a false choice.

The real choice is a society standing on it's own two feet vs a mommy state taking from its citizens to garner political support to keep itself in power by gifts and boons to the masses.

In short, what you want is diametrically opposed to what the United States was founded upon and thrived on.

 

[Xenophon]

Actually, it was Eisenhower that got us involved in the first place. Kennedy increased the involvement, but was considering exit statigies at time he was assinnated. Johnson put us into 'Nam to where we could not withdraw without seeing it as a national defeat.

Actually its Harry Truman, he allowed the french to return to Vietnam to try and reimpose colonial rule there, and thus violated the promises we had given to Ho Chi Minh during WWII that his nation would be free after WWII ended.

It was only when the french failed in 1954 that Ike became involved.

 

[jillian]

I have read this speech before, it was more amusing when it had the line 'workers of the world unite'.

it's easy to dismiss complaints of a lack of parity, I guess. But in reality, historically, management made approximately 6 times what the workers did, IIRC. Now top management earns approximately 22 times what the workers earn. That type of absurd burden creates societal rifts that we see in banana republics. Companies (and certain members of the public) then ignore the burden of those out-sized salaries as well as golden parachutes for failed CEO's but complain that they provide health coverage to workers and keep cutting back on workers' benefts... all while certain people bemoan the existence of collective bargaining which only partly levels the playing field.

 

[RodISHI]

it's easy to dismiss complaints of a lack of parity, I guess. But in reality, historically, management made approximately 6 times what the workers did, IIRC. Now top management earns approximately 22 times what the workers earn. That type of absurd burden creates societal rifts that we see in banana republics. Companies (and certain members of the public) then ignore the burden of those out-sized salaries as well as golden parachutes for failed CEO's but complain that they provide health coverage to workers and keep cutting back on workers' benefts... all while certain people bemoan the existence of collective bargaining which only partly levels the playing field.

I think the majority would agree with you on that Jillian but the politicians on both ends are not going to bite the hands that feed them and most of them do not consider that to be the average people in this country.

 

[Xenophon]

I have read this speech before, it was more amusing when it had the line 'workers of the world unite'.

it's easy to dismiss complaints of a lack of parity, I guess. But in reality, historically, management made approximately 6 times what the workers did, IIRC. Now top management earns approximately 22 times what the workers earn. That type of absurd burden creates societal rifts that we see in banana republics. Companies (and certain members of the public) then ignore the burden of those out-sized salaries as well as golden parachutes for failed CEO's but complain that they provide health coverage to workers and keep cutting back on workers' benefts... all while certain people bemoan the existence of collective bargaining which only partly levels the playing field.

And you think government is the solution for what you consider is an imbalance?

Government CREATED the imbalance by inserting itself too deeply into business.

 

[RodISHI]

And you think government is the solution for what you consider is an imbalance?

Government CREATED the imbalance by inserting itself too deeply into business.

I think you have a point there on certain issues. Then again there has to be a way to balance things out.

I know at the pit I had government inspectors over there giving me fines immediately. actually passing out fines when nothing was operational after the manufacturers people blew up my equipment. Can you imagine who sent them my way? It was Rod and I working there so just a mom and pop that refused to go along with the big boys take out or sellout program. I suppose I could have partnered with a big company but then again I did not believe that is what this country is all about. I will say this it was not Republicans running this state as that all went down. Plus Obama made the former governor from here one of his cabinet. That tells me it ain't looking good for the country if what happen to us is any indication of what is coming down the pike.

 

[Xenophon]

I think you have a point there on certain issues. Then again there has to be a way to balance things out.

I know at the pit I had government inspectors over there giving me fines immediately. actually passing out fines when nothing was operational after the manufacturers people blew up my equipment. Can you imagine who sent them my way? It was Rod and I working there so just a mom and pop that refused to go along with the big boys take out or sellout program. I suppose I could have partnered with a big company but then again I did not believe that is what this country is all about. I will say this it was not Republicans running this state as that all went down. Plus Obama made the former governor from here one of his cabinet. That tells me it ain't looking good for the country if what happen to us is any indication of what is coming down the pike.

It's at the heart of the issue.

Some like to use the extreme, playing on class warfare concepts as an argument for the nanny state such as saying 'X makes more then Y, therefore its unfair'.

The REAL problem is government intrusion into business with crazy tax laws and so many ways to corrupt the system that nobody knows the laws anymore.

A perfect example of this is the two biggest business in America, Insurence & law firms make nothing, build nothing, produce nothing, and are basically parasitical and detremental to people.

More gov is NEVER the answer.

 

[Barb]

Americans know how to use the moving van to escape high taxes.Soak the Rich, Lose the Rich - WSJ.com

Dayum. We'll miss them and shit (waving hankie). Maybe the the rest of the world needs them more? They can pay to pave their own roads wherever they're going, purify their own water, pay full price for a doctor if they can find one, educate their own children, staff a fire department, police force, and military to keep them all safe and cozy. It would have been a little better if they had been born out in someplace a little less socially constructed, then they could have been the "self made men" they imagine themselves to be, but hey, better late than never to truly own and spend their own wealth for their own happiness. Happy trails.