So you want better paying jobs?

[danielpalos]

It merely requires a clue and a Cause.

That was not an answer.


It is dishonest of you to pretend that I ceded anything.

Your context does not help much.

Men are not angles nor are we governed by them.

THus, your constant implication that we should be able to behave like them is delusional.

As is any goal you wish to reach by that behavior.

And near as I can tell by your surreal and obtuse jargon, is the Ideal Communist State.

If my guess is wrong, then tell me what you are really on about and stop being so coy.

If my guess is right, then that explains why you are so coy.

Because you know that your position is indefeasible.

If you don't understand the Federalist Papers; I cannot help you since I am not Master Yoda.

You have avoided any honest answer about your meanings or your intent.

what part of my quote of the Federalist Papers Number Fifty-One was too difficult for you to understand, or look up the entire context that includes that quote?

MOre games.

Is my guess about you being a communist correct or not?

nothing but diversions; are you a Capitalist with no capital involved?

what part of my quote of the Federalist Papers Number Fifty-One was too difficult for you to understand, or look up the entire context that includes that quote?

 

[danielpalos]

Dude, Bad management can explain all of your scenarios. Good management could can do a Good job.

Nope.

Different systems have differences.

A good manager of a bad system is limited by the system.

Gorbachev tried to give some freedom to the People and the system immediately collapsed into chaos.

Dude, Only Bad managers blame their systems not the bad management that got those bad systems.

Only madmen claim that Different systems do not have differences.

Only madder men claim that Good management and not Bad management is nugatory and of no significance, regardless of any given system.

I of course, never claimed that quality of management was nugatory.

You want to pretend that all differences in outcomes between difference systems is only a result of different management.

This requires the unstated corollary, the System itself is nugatory.

Which is madness.

THe reason you don't clearly state that corollary is because you know it is indefensible and so you try to hide your meaning with unclear jargon and bad sentence structure.

Yes; all problems in any given system may be made better or worse, by Good management or Bad management.

 

[Correll]

That was not an answer.


It is dishonest of you to pretend that I ceded anything.

Your context does not help much.

Men are not angles nor are we governed by them.

THus, your constant implication that we should be able to behave like them is delusional.

As is any goal you wish to reach by that behavior.

And near as I can tell by your surreal and obtuse jargon, is the Ideal Communist State.

If my guess is wrong, then tell me what you are really on about and stop being so coy.

If my guess is right, then that explains why you are so coy.

Because you know that your position is indefeasible.

If you don't understand the Federalist Papers; I cannot help you since I am not Master Yoda.

You have avoided any honest answer about your meanings or your intent.

what part of my quote of the Federalist Papers Number Fifty-One was too difficult for you to understand, or look up the entire context that includes that quote?

MOre games.

Is my guess about you being a communist correct or not?

nothing but diversions; are you a Capitalist with no capital involved?

what part of my quote of the Federalist Papers Number Fifty-One was too difficult for you to understand, or look up the entire context that includes that quote?

No diversion, my best guess of what you are about based on your incoherent posts.

How hard would it be for you to say, "I am not a communist, the out come I was hinting at was X"

Or,

"Yes. That is correct. And you are wrong, communism is a good thing because of "Y".

 

[Correll]

Nope.

Different systems have differences.

A good manager of a bad system is limited by the system.

Gorbachev tried to give some freedom to the People and the system immediately collapsed into chaos.

Dude, Only Bad managers blame their systems not the bad management that got those bad systems.

Only madmen claim that Different systems do not have differences.

Only madder men claim that Good management and not Bad management is nugatory and of no significance, regardless of any given system.

I of course, never claimed that quality of management was nugatory.

You want to pretend that all differences in outcomes between difference systems is only a result of different management.

This requires the unstated corollary, the System itself is nugatory.

Which is madness.

THe reason you don't clearly state that corollary is because you know it is indefensible and so you try to hide your meaning with unclear jargon and bad sentence structure.

Yes; all problems in any given system may be made better or worse, by Good management or Bad management.

Progress. THis is the first you have admitted that there are underlying differences between Different Systems.

The long history of the US as a massive creator of Wealth, compared to the long history of the USSR as a totalitarian dystopia demonstrates, IMO, that the Capitalistic US System is far, far superior to the Communist System of the USSR.

Despite minor output variations caused by fluctuations in style and quality of Management during these two histories.

 

[danielpalos]

Dude, Only Bad managers blame their systems not the bad management that got those bad systems.

Only madmen claim that Different systems do not have differences.

Only madder men claim that Good management and not Bad management is nugatory and of no significance, regardless of any given system.

I of course, never claimed that quality of management was nugatory.

You want to pretend that all differences in outcomes between difference systems is only a result of different management.

This requires the unstated corollary, the System itself is nugatory.

Which is madness.

THe reason you don't clearly state that corollary is because you know it is indefensible and so you try to hide your meaning with unclear jargon and bad sentence structure.

Yes; all problems in any given system may be made better or worse, by Good management or Bad management.

Progress. THis is the first you have admitted that there are underlying differences between Different Systems.

The long history of the US as a massive creator of Wealth, compared to the long history of the USSR as a totalitarian dystopia demonstrates, IMO, that the Capitalistic US System is far, far superior to the Communist System of the USSR.

Despite minor output variations caused by fluctuations in style and quality of Management during these two histories.

You are committing a fallacy of composition or false Cause by believing in that form of causation instead of simple Bad management and not Good management.

Socialism advanced the former Soviet Union more than even FDR's brand of socialism did for the US. It may have merely been easier in the US. We lost the Space Race. There was no reason for the former Soviet Union to not engage us in an industrial automation race instead of a Capital Arms Race under their form of socialism.

 

[Correll]

Only madmen claim that Different systems do not have differences.

Only madder men claim that Good management and not Bad management is nugatory and of no significance, regardless of any given system.

I of course, never claimed that quality of management was nugatory.

You want to pretend that all differences in outcomes between difference systems is only a result of different management.

This requires the unstated corollary, the System itself is nugatory.

Which is madness.

THe reason you don't clearly state that corollary is because you know it is indefensible and so you try to hide your meaning with unclear jargon and bad sentence structure.

Yes; all problems in any given system may be made better or worse, by Good management or Bad management.

Progress. THis is the first you have admitted that there are underlying differences between Different Systems.

The long history of the US as a massive creator of Wealth, compared to the long history of the USSR as a totalitarian dystopia demonstrates, IMO, that the Capitalistic US System is far, far superior to the Communist System of the USSR.

Despite minor output variations caused by fluctuations in style and quality of Management during these two histories.

You are committing a fallacy of composition or false Cause by believing in that form of causation instead of simple Bad management and not Good management.

Socialism advanced the former Soviet Union more than even FDR's brand of socialism did for the US. It may have merely been easier in the US. We lost the Space Race. There was no reason for the former Soviet Union to not engage us in an industrial automation race instead of a Capital Arms Race under their form of socialism.

And you are back to denying that there are differences between Different systems.

Incredible.

Just because you believe that there are no differences between different systems, does not make it a Fallacy for me to disagree with you.

At this point, if you were honest, you would be trying to make your case that all systems are basically equal and that only Good and Bad management effect outcome.

But, at some level you know you can't do that, hence the various techniques you use to be unclear.

Many leftists point to the rapid industrialization of Russia as an accomplishment of Communism.

Link to demonstrate that this industrialization was a result of Soviet planning. Please show that the Industrialization was not already underway before 1917 AND that it was not vastly accelerated by Lend Lease or War booty from Eastern Europe.

The US "Losing" the Space Race is at best spin. The US was not in a SPace Race until the SOviet put up Sputnik and used that success to make grandiose claims about the superiority of their system.

The US countered by upping the ante and turning it into a Moon Race and winning that. A clever tactic.

"industrial automation race"? At one point they thought they could outperform US when it comes to qualify of life. This turned out to be a delusion, because their system could NOT produce wealth at anything like our rate.

Our you ready to admit you are a communist now?

 

[danielpalos]

differences in any given system is no excuse for Bad management and not Good management.

simply going to space is a social goal not a capital goal. capitalism still has not discovered a profit motive to go where socialism went, last millennium via the command economics of our Moon Race.

Industrial automation could help provide the best things in life on a not for profit basis, for the People.

I am ready to admit a Commune of Heaven on Earth merely requires the Good management of Good social morals for free and not the Bad management of Bad social morals for free.

In any case, my good Capitalist, are you trying to establish confidence in your sincerity with Anyone by claiming to subscribe to the Social morals of Religion for free under our form of Capitalism?

 

[Correll]

differences in any given system is no excuse for Bad management and not Good management.

simply going to space is a social goal not a capital goal. capitalism still has not discovered a profit motive to go where socialism went, last millennium via the command economics of our Moon Race.

Industrial automation could help provide the best things in life on a not for profit basis, for the People.

Your focus on Management is no excuse for ignoring basic differences between different systems.

Going to space was a Military and Propaganda goal for both sides. Being willing to spend more money on a goal that does not show any short term return can be a strength. Or it can lead to a bad allocation of resources that are needed elsewhere.

REgardless, the Soviet System was not able to reach the goal desired by it's "Management" , ie to get to the Moon ahead of the US system. Our system produced more wealth, which lead to more revenue and technical ability then our enemy.

Industrial automation as a solution to this lack of wealth creation was not an option during the time frame of the SOviet Union.

It is not advanced enough now to render the differences in wealth creation between the Capitalist US and the more socialistic nations moot.

Some day it may be. Not soon.

 

[danielpalos]

The basic differences between systems is irrelevant; you either have Good management or Bad management.

Command economics is always an option for any command economy with Good management and not Bad management.

 

[Ernie S.]

Tariffs historically have more often been mercantilistic, ie desinged to protect the profits of business owners and investors.

Currently, modern business has adapted to using outsourcing to avoid high wages and costs here in the US.

That modern labor unions support this is an example of how they have sold out their members in favor of their political allies the democrats.

i.e. Donald Trump supports socialism.

Calling Mercantilism "Socialist" is like calling chocolate Cheesecake matter.

Under some definitions of the word is might be technically true, but it hard conveys how tasty it is.

Hell, you could call having cops and prisons "socialistic", if you wanted to.

Doesn't mean people who want to have cops are "supporting socialism".

It's socialism.

Long before Marx, the US received the majority of their revenue from tariffs. As a matter of fact, the Civil War was fought, not to "preserve the Union" or to end slavery, but to preserve the tariffs. The South accounted for about 75% of tariffs in 1860.

 

[Correll]

The basic differences between systems is irrelevant; you either have Good management or Bad management.

Command economics is always an option for any command economy with Good management and not Bad management.

You keep saying that, but you do nothing to support it.

What is so attractive to you about communism that you want to ignore history, deny obvious differences and play with a system that has a record of genocide, mass murder and oppression?

 

[danielpalos]

The basic differences between systems is irrelevant; you either have Good management or Bad management.

Command economics is always an option for any command economy with Good management and not Bad management.

You keep saying that, but you do nothing to support it.

What is so attractive to you about communism that you want to ignore history, deny obvious differences and play with a system that has a record of genocide, mass murder and oppression?

it is a self-evident Truth. We can use simple game "systems" such as checkers and chess for examples.

When has the Bad management you claim, ever Not occurred, regardless of government "system".

 

[Correll]

The basic differences between systems is irrelevant; you either have Good management or Bad management.

Command economics is always an option for any command economy with Good management and not Bad management.

You keep saying that, but you do nothing to support it.

What is so attractive to you about communism that you want to ignore history, deny obvious differences and play with a system that has a record of genocide, mass murder and oppression?

it is a self-evident Truth. We can use simple game "systems" such as checkers and chess for examples.

When has the Bad management you claim, ever Not occurred, regardless of government "system".

It is not a self evident truth.

It is the opposite of a self evident truth.


Simple game systems? HOw so?

 

[danielpalos]

The basic differences between systems is irrelevant; you either have Good management or Bad management.

Command economics is always an option for any command economy with Good management and not Bad management.

You keep saying that, but you do nothing to support it.

What is so attractive to you about communism that you want to ignore history, deny obvious differences and play with a system that has a record of genocide, mass murder and oppression?

it is a self-evident Truth. We can use simple game "systems" such as checkers and chess for examples.

When has the Bad management you claim, ever Not occurred, regardless of government "system".

It is not a self evident truth.

It is the opposite of a self evident truth.


Simple game systems? HOw so?

Good management over Bad management of Any system usually results in a win under most forms of "game theory" or system "theory".

 

[Correll]

The basic differences between systems is irrelevant; you either have Good management or Bad management.

Command economics is always an option for any command economy with Good management and not Bad management.

You keep saying that, but you do nothing to support it.

What is so attractive to you about communism that you want to ignore history, deny obvious differences and play with a system that has a record of genocide, mass murder and oppression?

it is a self-evident Truth. We can use simple game "systems" such as checkers and chess for examples.

When has the Bad management you claim, ever Not occurred, regardless of government "system".

It is not a self evident truth.

It is the opposite of a self evident truth.


Simple game systems? HOw so?

Good management over Bad management of Any system usually results in a win under most forms of "game theory" or system "theory".

Well, that was about as informative as any of your posts.

That works if the system in question is the same.

All checkers games use the same board, same pieces and same rules.

DIfferent economic/political systems do NOT do that.

THat is the point.

YOu want to use the system that is best.

What has Communism to offer that you find so attractive that you would ignore or minimize or rationalize away, it's history of failure and blood and terror?

 

[danielpalos]

All governments govern. Rules for governing are usually agreed to by the People.

 

[Correll]

All governments govern. Rules for governing are usually agreed to by the People.

Different rules, different systems, different outcomes.


What is so attractive about Communism to you?

 

[danielpalos]

All governments govern. Rules for governing are usually agreed to by the People.

Different rules, different systems, different outcomes.


What is so attractive about Communism to you?

Different rules, systems, and outcomes are irrelevant to the extent management is Good and not Bad.

you are confused due to your having nothing but fallacy at your disposal.

It is about Order versus Chaos.

We the people of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[Correll]

All governments govern. Rules for governing are usually agreed to by the People.

Different rules, different systems, different outcomes.


What is so attractive about Communism to you?

Different rules, systems, and outcomes are irrelevant to the extent management is Good and not Bad.

you are confused due to your having nothing but fallacy at your disposal.

It is about Order versus Chaos.

We the people of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Believing that different systems have differences that cause different outcomes is hardly a fallacy.

It is dishonest of you to pretend otherwise.

Order vs Chaos?

The Founding Fathers were not using that meaning of the word "order" in that sentence.

What is so attractive about Communism to you?

 

[danielpalos]

All governments govern. Rules for governing are usually agreed to by the People.

Different rules, different systems, different outcomes.


What is so attractive about Communism to you?

Different rules, systems, and outcomes are irrelevant to the extent management is Good and not Bad.

you are confused due to your having nothing but fallacy at your disposal.

It is about Order versus Chaos.

We the people of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Believing that different systems have differences that cause different outcomes is hardly a fallacy.

It is dishonest of you to pretend otherwise.

Order vs Chaos?

The Founding Fathers were not using that meaning of the word "order" in that sentence.

What is so attractive about Communism to you?

The fallacy is that not all outcome of any given system will be Bad or Good; but dependent upon the management of the system.

You are confusing communism with socialism.

Our Founding Fathers already Told us how much socialism we need; merely enough to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.