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Not going to bother focusing on the talking points here, since so far everything I have read is just plain stupid.
First, the IQ of them wouldn't matter, it's memorization that would which means all they had to do was fucking study, period. Also, their training would have covered it all anyway, since that's what the stupid test was about. The simple fact is this, they either didn't study thinking they could skate by using Affirmative Action to get their position, or the training they went through didn't take and they need more anyway ....
It's pretty silly to worry about the color of the skin for the people who are saving youf fucking lives since skill and capability will actually determine if you survive, as well as them to a lesser extent. Seriously, if they can't remember their training then fuck em, I don't want them on the force even.
First, I remember reading somewhere that the test was a national test and that some of the questions on the test were not specific to their city/town. Whether they had study materials or not was not mentioned. But I did read that some questions were applicable to NYC firefighters and would not apply to New Haven.
Second, what is it with the AA speculation? I am black and I have never even thought about AA when testing/applying/interviewing for a job. I have tried to do the best that I could. That's just plain ignorant for you and others to suggest that they were banking on AA. And unless someone said that they were told that they were going to be placed higher or that someone mentioned AA to them, that shouldn't be an issue.
They failed to work as hard, otherwise they would've been competitive. They relied on the policy they believed would work in their favor, and past arguments had come to nothing against. Otherwise we would have go believe that this group of black guys were less intelligent than their white counterparts. I say intelligent because they were all exposed to the same work requirments, knew the nomenclature, and the standards and practices.
So.....why work very hard for something you believe you will get in any case? These black firemen believed their competition was other black guys, that the white guys would be duly discounted. And that had been the case until the white guys stood up for themselves. If the black guys had studied as hard for the exam as the white guys did the results would've been closer, avoiding a court case at the end.
But having relied on the levelling process, which that did not result, they may have begun to undo that policy and in the end black folks competing with whites will see the need to compete as equals, not presuming already having a leg up.
Why would they presume that they had a leg up here? Their scores didn't get boosted because they were black.
Not going to bother focusing on the talking points here, since so far everything I have read is just plain stupid.
First, the IQ of them wouldn't matter, it's memorization that would which means all they had to do was fucking study, period. Also, their training would have covered it all anyway, since that's what the stupid test was about. The simple fact is this, they either didn't study thinking they could skate by using Affirmative Action to get their position, or the training they went through didn't take and they need more anyway ....
It's pretty silly to worry about the color of the skin for the people who are saving youf fucking lives since skill and capability will actually determine if you survive, as well as them to a lesser extent. Seriously, if they can't remember their training then fuck em, I don't want them on the force even.
First, I remember reading somewhere that the test was a national test and that some of the questions on the test were not specific to their city/town. Whether they had study materials or not was not mentioned. But I did read that some questions were applicable to NYC firefighters and would not apply to New Haven.
Second, what is it with the AA speculation? I am black and I have never even thought about AA when testing/applying/interviewing for a job. I have tried to do the best that I could. That's just plain ignorant for you and others to suggest that they were banking on AA. And unless someone said that they were told that they were going to be placed higher or that someone mentioned AA to them, that shouldn't be an issue.
It was a possibility not an absolute that I offered, and I never lump "everyone" of the same type in the same categories. However, I have seen many minorities abuse AA quite often, I could to and choose not to.
As for what does and does not apply between cities, that still wouldn't make the test biased by race, now would it?
First, I remember reading somewhere that the test was a national test and that some of the questions on the test were not specific to their city/town. Whether they had study materials or not was not mentioned. But I did read that some questions were applicable to NYC firefighters and would not apply to New Haven.
Second, what is it with the AA speculation? I am black and I have never even thought about AA when testing/applying/interviewing for a job. I have tried to do the best that I could. That's just plain ignorant for you and others to suggest that they were banking on AA. And unless someone said that they were told that they were going to be placed higher or that someone mentioned AA to them, that shouldn't be an issue.
It was a possibility not an absolute that I offered, and I never lump "everyone" of the same type in the same categories. However, I have seen many minorities abuse AA quite often, I could to and choose not to.
As for what does and does not apply between cities, that still wouldn't make the test biased by race, now would it?
No, it doesn't. But it doesn't mean that they were hoping for AA to assist them either. And as far as minorities abusing AA, you would have to be a part of HR in order to be privileged to that information. If they didn't study, then it's their own fault. I don't think that any minority goes into a place of business thinking they have a leg up because of AA unless someone tells them that they do. I can pretty much guarantee that a minority expects to get turned down for a position more often than not.
For a promotion you already know the HR department ... unless you worked in a cave.It was a possibility not an absolute that I offered, and I never lump "everyone" of the same type in the same categories. However, I have seen many minorities abuse AA quite often, I could to and choose not to.
As for what does and does not apply between cities, that still wouldn't make the test biased by race, now would it?
No, it doesn't. But it doesn't mean that they were hoping for AA to assist them either. And as far as minorities abusing AA, you would have to be a part of HR in order to be privileged to that information. If they didn't study, then it's their own fault. I don't think that any minority goes into a place of business thinking they have a leg up because of AA unless someone tells them that they do. I can pretty much guarantee that a minority expects to get turned down for a position more often than not.
I am getting sick of these false "racism" cries, so much that now I don't give a fuck, let the blacks struggle like the whites, the more they cry racism when there isn't any, the less sorry I feel for them.
KK "knows" everything, don't even bother trying to tell her differently.
I am getting sick of these false "racism" cries, so much that now I don't give a fuck, let the blacks struggle like the whites, the more they cry racism when there isn't any, the less sorry I feel for them.
Fact:
Black firefighters did in fact pass the tests, its just that out of those that did pass none would have been selected for captain. Its not like this kind of stuff happens all the time.
So you're saying you're surprised that they passed?
The military doesn't give IQ tests.
Your “The Bell Curve” book has been largely debunked.
Your The Bell Curve book has been largely debunked.
No, it hasn't. The core idea that intelligence is more influenced by INHERITANCE than ENVIRONMENT is rock-solid. The "debunking" of the Bell Curve is hysterical politics, not sound science.
Stalking the Wild Taboo - WSJ Statement on The Bell Curve
Your The Bell Curve book has been largely debunked.
No, it hasn't. The core idea that intelligence is more influenced by INHERITANCE than ENVIRONMENT is rock-solid. The "debunking" of the Bell Curve is hysterical politics, not sound science.
Stalking the Wild Taboo - WSJ Statement on The Bell Curve
I could go on and on but I have other things to do - so you just go ahead and cling to your precious debunked book.
I could go on and on but I have other things to do - so you just go ahead and cling to your precious debunked book.
You're citing me the Quakers and a Slate writer as a debunking of the Bell Curve? By the way... check out what William Saletan, another writer for Slate, has to say on this issue... not happy, matt!
If you have other things to do, check out these books, all of which support the Bell Curve:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Global-Bell-Curve-Inequality-Worldwide/dp/1593680287]Amazon.com: The Global Bell Curve: Race, IQ, and Inequality Worldwide: Richard Lynn: Books[/ame]
Arthur Jensen Replies to Steven Jay Gould
VDARE.com: 04/23/06 - Lynn's Race Differences in Intelligence: PC Won't Make Them Go Away
The bottom line is that people like you aren't "open minded" -- you're as close-minded as they come... you're just DEATHLY AFRAID of the notion that races differ in intelligence!
THAT's what's "clung to"!
Don't you think it's funny, oh center-of-the-roader, that both liberals and conservatives are equally afraid of this issue?
It would take a totally controlled study an experiment in which from birth to death large populations from each race had their experiences identical and totally controlled every minute of every day. Then we would know for certain to what degree, if any, IQ differences between races are due to genetics or experience.
