So, What's The Solution...?

Discussion in 'Race Relations/Racism' started by bayoubill, May 10, 2012.

  1. bayoubill
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    bayoubill aka Sheik Yerbouti... Supporting Member

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    over the course of my lifetime, I've seen various presidents and Congress promulgate numerous measures intended to lift black folks out of abject poverty... and yet I see that vast numbers of black folks are still in that position...

    and they seem even more pissed off than ever...

    so... what's the answer...?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  2. eflatminor
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    eflatminor Classical Liberal

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    I would argue that no one in America is really in abject poverty. Not compared to the rest of the world. That said, I understand the desire to see Black Americans rise from their largely inferior financial position. Personally, I have every confidence that all Americans are capable of bettering their position in life unless held back by a superior force. That force for Black folks, from the days of slavery until today is government. It was government that enforced the rules of slavery in the Southern states. It is government that enforces the rules of entitlement today. If find it repulsive to hear our central planners proclaim that Blacks cannot thrive without redistribution of wealth, entitlement programs, and special class status laws like affirmative action. What low regard they hold for a segment of our population that's been here from the beginning! I do not share their pessimistic outlook on the capabilities of all Americans, regardless of race, to thrive if they choose to do so.

    Blacks, new immigrants, and all minorities in free states, from before the founding of the country until the beginning of the Progressive era, increased their economic status to a greater extent than any time in history. That is to say, more poor became middle class and more middle class became rich than ever before. That time period coincided with the great experiment in limited government and individual freedom. I do not believe that's a coincidence. Not surprisingly, as soon as the central planners gained control and began increasing their meddling and collectivist policies, the economic status of the poor stagnated. Now that they've had 100 years to screw things up, we also see the middle class stagnating. Sad for Black folks, sad for all of us.
     
  3. Pheonixops
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    Pheonixops Proud Liberal

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    Would you say that the vast majority of Black folks are in "that position" or is it a minority of Black folks "still in that position"?
     
  4. bayoubill
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    bayoubill aka Sheik Yerbouti... Supporting Member

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    either way, it's enough to be troublesome...
     
  5. Pheonixops
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    Pheonixops Proud Liberal

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    I agree that it is "troublesome" , but that is the same with anybody. Let's take a look at another ethnic group who was shit on in a similar manner to Black people, the American Indians, what are their numbers like regarding "abject poverty" , etc.? What about Hispanics (who mostly came here voluntarily)?
    I'm not saying that you do it Bill, but why do some people like to constantly use "the Blacks" solely as their "whipping boy", especially when there are other "minority" groups with similar numbers and problems?
     
  6. bayoubill
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    bayoubill aka Sheik Yerbouti... Supporting Member

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    Thanks for that, PO...

    I know that poverty is not confined to any one ethnic/racial group,

    but I was thinking in terms of government actions that began in the 60's... economic and political measures that specifically targeted the situation that many black people found themselves in at the time...
     
  7. catzmeow
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    catzmeow BANNED

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    I've worked with and on poverty programs for most of my life. I would say that statistically speaking, blacks are actually doing better, economically, than they have ever done at any point in time in this country.

    However, there is an increasing gap between affluent blacks and poor ones. Middle class and upper class blacks are doing better than ever. Poor blacks are doing worse.

    For me, at least, the divide is educational, cultural and familial, and it's grown deeper over time. What you see now are pockets of concentrated social dysfunction: intense poverty, failing schools, destroyed family structures, high crime.

    i don't think that outsiders CAN lift blacks out of poverty. Black people have to lift themselves. However, it appears to me that the people who are currently trapped in poverty in the U.S., in many cases, appear to lack the skill sets that they need in order to transition from the lower to the middle class.

    Schools in those areas are almost all failing. The social fabric of the community that was held together by churches, families, and shared community standards have unraveled. Individual family units struggle with issues like illiteracy, poor nutrition, lack of access to healthcare, the inability to handle or manage money, ineffective parenting activities, and deeper issues like drug/alcohol addiction and in some cases, mental illness.

    I have seen isolated rays of hopefulness, but in general, I see communities, school districts, neighborhoods and families trapped in a cycle of dysfunction that can't be escaped.

    Consider Camden, NJ. Here's a brief description of this lovely area:

    Camden is an extreme example, but having spent time working there, I have to say...the answers to these problems are not simple ones. 30% of Camden residents live in subsidized housing. Employment opportunities are non-existent, the schools are so bad that they were taken over by the state of New Jersey in 2005. The local political leaders have had major issues with corruption. The city of Camden can't self-manage; in fact, New Jersey heavily subsidizes Camden's annual budget.

    How do you fix an area like this with high levels of poverty? You would have to have a comprehensive strategy that addressed everything from reducing violent crime to rebuilding the learning environment of the local schools to finding ways to bring in business and industry to provide jobs.

    It's a crazy big situation, and it's not going to be easy.

    The people I've worked with that live in places like this tend to lack essential skills in so many areas: they don't know how to cook. They don't know how to clean. They don't know how to manage their monthly income/budget. They don't know how to be employable. Many are functionally illiterate and read on the 3-4th grade level.

    You would have to address the skill deficits in all of these areas in order to solve poverty for these people.

    But, this isn't about skin color. Look at the White family of West Virginia, and you see the same damn scenario being played out in the same damn way. Go and spend time on almost any indian reservation in the U.S., and you'll see the same thing...high crime rates, high rates of social dysfunction.

    There are people in every community in the U.S., pockets of them, who are not succeeding on any level...they're white, brown, black, etc. Our system isn't working for them, and they're stuck in a hole that is bad for them, bad for their kids, and bad for society.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  8. bayoubill
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    bayoubill aka Sheik Yerbouti... Supporting Member

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    thanks for that, CM...

    excellent summary of the situation...

    unfortunately, it paints an unblinkingly bleak picture...

    the problem is so huge, it seems insurmountable...

    can we reasonably hope that things can be turned around...?

    and, if so, how...?

    the government has thrown alot of programs and money at the problem (some of which has been counterproductive)... all of which has had comparatively little success compared to the amount of effort and resources expended...

    various wealthy persons have established a few private programs to help folks rise out of the poverty cycle... dollar for dollar, such programs have had better success than the government's efforts because they're better managed and demand results... but these efforts are like a drop in the bucket...

    mebbe I'm being naive, but it seems to me the country's super-billionaires could be persuaded to get together for the betterment of the country regardless of political leanings (e.g., Koch's, Soros, etc...) and forge an alliance to dump a huge pile of their money into a well-structured and managed super initiative for those types of programs that: teach skills (for both employment and family) and give the opportunity for persons to take pride in themselves and their accomplishments; provide business loans for folks who've got big ideas and have demonstrated personal responsibly; rebuild communities to the point that large manufacturers and retailers will open branches to provide good jobs and a better quality of life...
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  9. Pheonixops
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    In my opinion, few of them (government actions) were direct solely toward Black people, unless you are talking about the "lunch counter" stuff. Welfare has no racial requirements, affirmative action was and is available to a myriad of minority groups as well as women (even White women). In fact I remember MANY White male executives starting companies in their wives' names so they could bid on "minority contracts". If you have some specific "government actions" and "political measures" that were geared solely towards Blacks, please lets discuss them. One i can think of is "Gerrymandering" and poll taxes.
     
  10. Pheonixops
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    Pheonixops Proud Liberal

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    Very EXCELLENT POINTS!!!
     

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