So we were supposed to be a christian nation huh....?

[cbirch2]

The founding fathers were far from the christians Palin, Bachmann, and Beck would have you believe they were. Most of them went to church, but what they wrote and what they said paint a definite picture of a group of people that were dedicated more to the abstract principles that the church tried to teach, and didnt particularly believe in the institution itself. Ill provide a few quotes from Thomas Jefferson.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law." -letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814

"It has been fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and then I considered it merely the ravings of a maniac."

"They [preachers] dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live."

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."


Doesnt he sound like he would love the science denying bible thumping christians of today?

 

[Sherry]

Nice cherry picking....now be prepared to have the tables turned.

 

[cbirch2]

Heres Franklin:

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -in Poor Richard's Almanac

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." -in Poor Richard's Almanac

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."
- "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", 1728

 

[cbirch2]

I would be very interested if you found any quotes from Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin that specifically support religion. Because they werent christians. Those three were openly not christian.

 

[Sherry]

I would be very interested if you found any quotes from Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin that specifically support religion. Because they werent christians. Those three were openly not christian.

You wouldn't be interested in the least bit....now continue preaching to your choir.

 

[cbirch2]

Adams:

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."

"Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?"

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"

Notice the last part particularly. "God of Nature". Go up to the last part and reference the washington quote about deism. They were more deist than christian.

 

[cbirch2]

I would be very interested if you found any quotes from Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin that specifically support religion. Because they werent christians. Those three were openly not christian.

You wouldn't be interested in the least bit....now continue preaching to your choir.

No im actually really waiting for you to "turn the tables"...

It should be fun. Go to google, better get going.

 

[Sherry]

I would be very interested if you found any quotes from Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin that specifically support religion. Because they werent christians. Those three were openly not christian.

You wouldn't be interested in the least bit....now continue preaching to your choir.

No im actually really waiting for you to "turn the tables"...

It should be fun. Go to google, better get going.

I have no desire to get in a pissing match with a dumbass....I just know this board well enough to warn you to be prepared to have others step up to debate you. Now go stroke off.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So we were supposed to be a christian nation huh....?

The First Amendment renders this question moot.

The only issue is do Palin, Bachmann, Beck, and their ilk understand and support the First Amendment as interpreted by the Supreme Court. The evidence would indicate not.

 

[cbirch2]

The previous section about washington was actually about Franklin, the sections renamed now.

Washington didnt write much about religion, except that he never received communion. Thats an established fact.

 

[cbirch2]

I have no desire to get in a pissing match with a dumbass....I just know this board well enough to warn you to be prepared to have others step up to debate you. Now go stroke off.

mmmk. I havent said anything here that isnt established fact, so let the debate begin. Franklin, Jefferson, and Adams were very vocal in their opposition to the church establishment. Washington was fairly secretive about his religion. They were arguably the most influential founding fathers, and they were certainly not the christians of today.

 

[WillowTree]

I wonder why that dumbass in the wh yells "God Bless America" every chance he gets. he comes from a church that yelled "God Damn America" every chance it got. Think he's been converted?????

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

why why that dumbass in the wh yells "God Bless America" every chance he gets. he comes from a church that yelled "God Damn America" every chance it got. Think he's been converted?????

One assumes this is a rhetorical question, otherwise you’re merely exhibiting your ignorance. Yet again.

 

[shintao]

Nice cherry picking....now be prepared to have the tables turned.

I think you would find defending Christianity a losing cause, wherein the godhead is a burning bush, and the idol smoking it.

 

[WillowTree]

why why that dumbass in the wh yells "God Bless America" every chance he gets. he comes from a church that yelled "God Damn America" every chance it got. Think he's been converted?????

One assumes this is a rhetorical question, otherwise you’re merely exhibiting your ignorance. Yet again.

It's a spot on question. You got an answer?

 

[cbirch2]

why why that dumbass in the wh yells "God Bless America" every chance he gets. he comes from a church that yelled "God Damn America" every chance it got. Think he's been converted?????

someone is still sad about losing in 2008....


even though obama is just another conservative president. His healthcare law is the Bob Dole plan from 94. He kept the bush tax cuts. He bailed out corporate owners and not average workers. His Afghanistan drawdown is too slow. Hes bombing two more countries in the middle east/north africa, bringing the total to 5.

Remind me again how this liberal is destroying america? It sounds a lot like our 2nd conservative president in a row is destroying it.

 

[Sherry]

Nice cherry picking....now be prepared to have the tables turned.

I think you would find defending Christianity a losing cause, wherein the godhead is a burning bush, and the idol smoking it.

I've never been inspired to defend Christianity....I don't give a shit what anyone else believes or doesn't believe.

 

[WillowTree]

why why that dumbass in the wh yells "God Bless America" every chance he gets. he comes from a church that yelled "God Damn America" every chance it got. Think he's been converted?????

someone is still sad about losing in 2008....


even though obama is just another conservative president. His healthcare law is the Bob Dole plan from 94. He kept the bush tax cuts. He bailed out corporate owners and not average workers. His Afghanistan drawdown is too slow. Hes bombing two more countries in the middle east/north africa, bringing the total to 5.

Remind me again how this liberal is destroying america? It sounds a lot like our 2nd conservative president in a row is destroying it.

They are spending us into oblivioun.. they streaming toward the wh even as we speak.. dumbass.atheist.

 

[cbirch2]

They are spending us into oblivioun.. they streaming toward the wh even as we speak.. dumbass.atheist.

They are? Republicans spent all the money...

 

[Cecilie1200]

The founding fathers were far from the christians Palin, Bachmann, and Beck would have you believe they were. Most of them went to church, but what they wrote and what they said paint a definite picture of a group of people that were dedicated more to the abstract principles that the church tried to teach, and didnt particularly believe in the institution itself. Ill provide a few quotes from Thomas Jefferson.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law." -letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814

"It has been fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and then I considered it merely the ravings of a maniac."

"They [preachers] dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live."

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

"We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication ."


Doesnt he sound like he would love the science denying bible thumping christians of today?

Because we all know Thomas Jefferson was THE ONLY Founding Father there was, thus all of the Founding Fathers can be judged by highly cherrypicked quotes from him.

Don't be any more of a public dumbass than nature forces on you, okay?

Come back and talk to us when you've read any of the source documents whose minute quotes you so cherish, and can tell us, in your own words, what the man was actually talking about.

Furthermore, when I want to hear from you on what Christians are like and what they believe, Reverend cbirch, rest assured, I will ask you. Until then, spare us your judgements based on your undoubtedly "extensive" knowledge of and research into the teachings of Christianity.