So Now Judges Are Going to Decide Who Educates Kids

[Ravi]

Care, it almost sounds as if you believe non-custodial parents have no rights.

 

[Care4all]

It sounds like a divorce problem more than anything else. The father claims the mother is a member of a cult, and apparently the woman's father also agrees she is a member of a cult.

The judge had to side with one parent, he picked the father.

If she is a member of a dangerous cult, why did she get custody of the kids? Could they not prove she was a member of a cult? She shouldn't have the kids at all...?

Was she home schooling them when they were married, do you know Ravi?

even in a divorce case, the judge can not choose where the kids go to school, the parent does, according to law....

The judge can determine who has custody in a divorce proceeding, but not where the kids go to school, that is up to the parent with custody.

Care

I don't know when she joined the cult. And I disagree. Even in divorced families, both parents still have a say in their children's education.

I don't think so Ravi, i believe the parent with custody gets the FINAL decision on where their kids go to school....someone has to have the upper hand, and the parent with custody always has the upper hand.... if they were still married, then they would have equal say and they would have to work it out among themselves.

you can't have some parent that does not have custody continually causing havok on all the decisions on rearing the parent with custody has.....the parent with custody is given the legal protection to be the parent making most all of the critical or family decisions regarding the children....as it should be, so not to cause CHAOS.

Just think about this....this is a very bad ruling, on all grounds...and the judge wanting to make them more rounded is NOTHING BUT AN OPINION of the judges that has no place in this ruling, he does not get to decide what "more rounded is" for her or her children....can the father come in and insist his children go in to some HOLY ROLLER private, Army of God Warriors school when he does not have custody and have a judge FORCE the parent with custody to put their kids in to this private school?

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, when you give the judge this power.


(that he does not have according to the law and rightfully so.)

If for any reason, physical or mental abuse was taking place, then prove such, and take the kids away from her....give them to the pop, otherwise decisions on where to school the kids, are HERS to make.

 

[Ravi]

Care, what if the mother were sending her kids to the school that was passing out the book on gays to elementary schools brought up in the other thread...Pro-Homosexual Booklet to Be Distributed to All 16,000 US School Districts

Would the father have no right to insist that the children be moved to another school?

 

[WillowTree]

The right thing, is to FOLLOW THE LAW.....and parents can choose where their kids go to school, private or public...

if this woman belongs to some dangerous cult, then the right thing to do would be to give custody to the father....within Divorce LAW.

that's right,, if judgey thinks mama is a bad influence on the kiddos he needs to remove them

 

[jillian]

what a freaking troll. wonder if willow ever gets bored doing that ...

or maybe she really is that stupid.

ah well.

 

[Red Dawn]

Unbelievable....

Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms

"World Nut Daily" ??

 

[Skull Pilot]

say "Bye Bye" to the so-called right of religious zealots to brainwash their children. It's about time these loonies were taken to task. BRAVO to the judge BRAVO !

yeah god forbid a parent teaches their children and those children outperform government educated children.

Hey here's an idea, let the government tell you that you have to produce X amount of children and then the government can raise them and send you a bill every month for their care.

After all, at least according to you, the government knows better than a parent.

 

[Care4all]

Care, what if the mother were sending her kids to the school that was passing out the book on gays to elementary schools brought up in the other thread...Pro-Homosexual Booklet to Be Distributed to All 16,000 US School Districts

Would the father have no right to insist that the children be moved to another school?

Ravi, i haven't read that thread that you mentioned yet...

But here are my concerns....i think that in a divorce, the father or the one who did not receive custody, can not continually interupt the consistant GOOD rearing of the children that he doesn't have custody of.....this would be BAD for the children to be part of this continually strife between mom and dad, AFTER a divorce....you give an inch, you will have to give a yard...

this judge made the wrong decision because it was not his decision to make....it was his decision to decide where the kids should go, but not with the nitty gritty or rearing, this is the parent's responsibility.

This judge, as said, made a parental decision for this woman, solely on his OPINIUON on home schooling and his opinion that kids are more rounded going to public schools and do better in public school THAN PRIVATE SCHOOL.....with absolutely NO EVIDENCE of any sort to show such....he used his own opinion for Christ sake...NOT THE LAW, NOT AN ANALYSIS with Merit, but his opinion OVER THE MOTHER'S OPINION.....

this should set off bells in everyone imo, of how wrong this decision is....the government should not be rearing your children unless there is good reason for them to do such, like you are a law breaker, a drug dealer, an abuser, a incestual rapist etc....

It is NOT that i am fighting for home schoolers, i am taking this side because what the judge did, imo was a reach of power that the judge never had....in this case....

you give in an inch on this, and you will be giving a yard.... judges can not and do not have jurisdiction over your family if everything you are doing, such as home schooling, is LEGAL.... to say that they do, means they can tell any parent, that they must send their kids to PRIVATE SCHOOL as well....or they can tell a parent that their kids MUST PLAY in the PUBLIC playground for 2 hours every day between 3pm and 5pm because the judge thinks that would be healthier for the kids than going to the ymca.

Care

 

[Ravi]

It sounds as if they are in divorce proceeding currently, so it isn't the judge overriding the mother's opinion, it is the judge settling a dispute between the parents.

Wake judge orders home schoolers into public classrooms :: WRAL.com

I agree with your overall point that the custodial parent has to deal with the day to day decisions for the children. But I don't agree that the non-custodial parent has no say in what goes on.

The thread I mentioned was a discussion of a gay advocacy group handing out materials in schools to teach children that gay relationships were normal. So my question was, what if this woman was sending her children to one of those schools and had no problem with the literature being handed out, but the father objected to the literature...why would she have the final say, simply because she was the custodial parent? Where does the non-custodial parent lose his or her rights to what he or she considers the best interests of the child?

 

[Ravi]

btw, I have no problem with homeschooling in general.

 

[jillian]

Care, what if the mother were sending her kids to the school that was passing out the book on gays to elementary schools brought up in the other thread...Pro-Homosexual Booklet to Be Distributed to All 16,000 US School Districts

Would the father have no right to insist that the children be moved to another school?

Ravi, i haven't read that thread that you mentioned yet...

But here are my concerns....i think that in a divorce, the father or the one who did not receive custody, can not continually interupt the consistant GOOD rearing of the children that he doesn't have custody of.....

Who says it's good?? Apparently HE doesn't think so. And I'm wondering why you're ignoring my points when I'm the one who did divorces for people and am telling you how it goes. That isn't like you.

 

[Care4all]

Care, what if the mother were sending her kids to the school that was passing out the book on gays to elementary schools brought up in the other thread...Pro-Homosexual Booklet to Be Distributed to All 16,000 US School Districts

Would the father have no right to insist that the children be moved to another school?

Ravi, i haven't read that thread that you mentioned yet...

But here are my concerns....i think that in a divorce, the father or the one who did not receive custody, can not continually interupt the consistant GOOD rearing of the children that he doesn't have custody of.....

Who says it's good?? Apparently HE doesn't think so. And I'm wondering why you're ignoring my points when I'm the one who did divorces for people and am telling you how it goes. That isn't like you.

you are right, that is not like me!

And the reason i didn't respond is because i didn't see that you had posted anything! I swear!

Today is laundy day, and i have been running up and down the stairs getting to it, and doing other house work in between, so when coming back to the board, i am catching the last post to me and answering that....but primarily, had just been looking to discuss this with Ravi, so i had been skipping to her!!!

But, let me go thorough the thread and see what you had to say on it Jillian, and then, between the "laundry workout" I will respond, you have my word!

Care

 

[Care4all]

It sounds as if they are in divorce proceeding currently, so it isn't the judge overriding the mother's opinion, it is the judge settling a dispute between the parents.

Wake judge orders home schoolers into public classrooms :: WRAL.com

I agree with your overall point that the custodial parent has to deal with the day to day decisions for the children. But I don't agree that the non-custodial parent has no say in what goes on.

The thread I mentioned was a discussion of a gay advocacy group handing out materials in schools to teach children that gay relationships were normal. So my question was, what if this woman was sending her children to one of those schools and had no problem with the literature being handed out, but the father objected to the literature...why would she have the final say, simply because she was the custodial parent? Where does the non-custodial parent lose his or her rights to what he or she considers the best interests of the child?

let me answer you before looking for Jillians other posts on this...

i don't think the non custodial parent has no say..... usually the parents work out what is best for the kids.

If the non custodial parent has concerns for their children because of harm, or something illegal then by all means, see a judge to put some sort of stop order on the mother, or take the kids away....

But, when you have these kids, who have always been home schooled and they are testing at 2 years above norm and they were taken out of public school in the first place because they were doing poorly in public school, and they also participate in extra curricular activies and sports with kids of their own age, WHAT reason would there be for the judge to do this against the mother's will, who has temporary custody of the kids....if the divorce is not final yet, and the kids are with her, she has the custody of them...

If they were testing below their grade level, confined to never going out of the house and seeing sunshine, and 20lbs under weight, I'd say...Houston, we have a problem! And most certainly the non custodial parent should have a means to object.

On the passing out gay pamphlet thing by some activist group, at a school...i don't think they should be allowed to do it in the first place, nor should Christians be allowed to pass on pamphlets at a school.

(i still haven't read the thread, so i am not certain i am dipicting what happened)

but presuming i have the gist of it, if the mother wanted the child to continue to go to this school, where these pamphlets were distributed and the non custodial father objected to his child continuing to go to this public school, i would say the father would not have good reason to insist such....unless there was some proof that this harmed his child in some way.

There is no reason why the father could not take this booklet and go over it with his children and teach them why he disagrees with the booklet's view on this...if his children happened to even get a copy of it handed to them...

so, if i got the gist of the story right, this is how i think on it...

Care

 

[Againsheila]

yall are missing this point..the father objected to the homeschooling and forced the judge to make a ruling...

father refusing to pay home schooling expenses..when public education is free..

i am not an advocate of home schooling...but i do realize they do many activities as a group...and try to socialize the kids that way...the kids still dont learn how the "game" is played...school is for one thing only now days...teaching kids how to get over ...it does seem...if you really feel like you are a better teacher for your kids..then keep them at home and teach them...but i think it takes a real ego for people with high school educations to take over teaching their kids...your kids educations will be limited by your degree of education....and again..i think the varied of people that teach in public schools could be enlightening...kids need to be exposed to different teaching methods..not everyone will spoon feed them the information....now as far as testing ahead blah blah blah....there it is simply like the public schools where they teach to the test...both sides are very guilty of that..one aspect of home schooling that i do not see being accomplished is the literary part....of having a large library with many reference sources...reference books are expensive....you can depend of the county library for that...and homeschoolers who are involved in sports teams with public schoolers are always kinda pushed to the side by the other kids...(this is only my observation)

First of all, homeschooling doesn't take all that much money. You can buy used text books, or with the internet today you have virtually unlimited materials. Second of all, there are co ops, homeschool organizations, playdays, all kinds of help. Furthermore, at least in our state you can homeschool for some classes and use the public schools for others. Our school district brags about their graduation rate and grades because they offer program whereby high achievers can go to college for 2 years free. Most homeschoolers take advantage of that. My neighbor homeschools her kids, 8 of them. Three of them have graduated and all three got two years at our community college paid for by our public school.

Granted, there are a few homeschoolers who don't do a very good job, that's obviously not the case with this woman since her kids scored above their grade level. The judge is an idiot...bet his kids go to private school.

 

[Care4all]

Unbelievable....

Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms

Once again, you are either intentionally lying or show absolutely no understanding of the issues.

These people are going through a divorce. Mommy wants to homeschool. Daddy thinks it's bogus. In a divorce, a JUDGE gets to decide the best interests of the child. Aren't you guys always whining that daddy should have a say? Well, in a divorce, daddy GETS a say.

perhaps you need to read things that don't lie like you do.

It was fine with Daddy beforehand, now that he might have to put out some bucks he is claiming it is not okay, nothing more and nothing less imo.

the kids were pulled out of public school by the FATHER and the mother because they were doing poorly in public school, now they are testing above their grade...this is obviously the atmosphere these kids need to succeed, more one on one attention and they are thriving in their schooling since pulled out of public schools.

What GROUNDS do you think this father has in getting his way on this when it was fine with him when married, and the kids are doing so well, including in extra curricular activities at the school with other kids?

How can you call it ANYTHING BUT GOOD rearing, it certainly is not dangerous or BAD rearing where the husband could object to.

Also, the mother has temporary custody of these kids...if he was such a great non adulterous father and she was so rotten, he would have gotten custody imo.

this judge, used only his own opinion, without ANY FACTS SUPPORTING SUCH, to take these kids out of the environment that they were used to prior to the divorce and FORCE her to take her kids out of Private Schooling and put them in to a Public School setting.

If there were scientific analysis that showed home schooling is really bad for kids, then home schooling should be nixed, but THERE IS NO such thing Jillian....no such thing.

So no, this judge had no right to move these kids out of their comfortable, and good, schooling environment....regardless of the father not wanting to pay for the home schooling.

I have seen NO COMMENT from the father saying it was bad for his kids, only comment is he does not want to pay for it anymore? The judge is who said HE THOUGHT it would "make the kids more rounded"....?

Yes i think the non custodial parent should have some say in the rearing of his children, WHEN IT MERITS SUCH, otherwise....no, not via the gvt on things that clearly lie in the custodial parents hands, like the kids school...yes, through working it out with his wife or ex wife...

Admittingly so Jillian...I could be wrong on this, i really don't know the knitty gritty of the law as you do!

where do you stand on the parent being the one to choose their own child's means of education, private or public?

care

 

[Ravi]

It sounds as if they are in divorce proceeding currently, so it isn't the judge overriding the mother's opinion, it is the judge settling a dispute between the parents.

Wake judge orders home schoolers into public classrooms :: WRAL.com

I agree with your overall point that the custodial parent has to deal with the day to day decisions for the children. But I don't agree that the non-custodial parent has no say in what goes on.

The thread I mentioned was a discussion of a gay advocacy group handing out materials in schools to teach children that gay relationships were normal. So my question was, what if this woman was sending her children to one of those schools and had no problem with the literature being handed out, but the father objected to the literature...why would she have the final say, simply because she was the custodial parent? Where does the non-custodial parent lose his or her rights to what he or she considers the best interests of the child?

let me answer you before looking for Jillians other posts on this...

i don't think the non custodial parent has no say..... usually the parents work out what is best for the kids.

If the non custodial parent has concerns for their children because of harm, or something illegal then by all means, see a judge to put some sort of stop order on the mother, or take the kids away....

But, when you have these kids, who have always been home schooled and they are testing at 2 years above norm and they were taken out of public school in the first place because they were doing poorly in public school, and they also participate in extra curricular activies and sports with kids of their own age, WHAT reason would there be for the judge to do this against the mother's will, who has temporary custody of the kids....if the divorce is not final yet, and the kids are with her, she has the custody of them...

If they were testing below their grade level, confined to never going out of the house and seeing sunshine, and 20lbs under weight, I'd say...Houston, we have a problem! And most certainly the non custodial parent should have a means to object.

On the passing out gay pamphlet thing by some activist group, at a school...i don't think they should be allowed to do it in the first place, nor should Christians be allowed to pass on pamphlets at a school.

(i still haven't read the thread, so i am not certain i am dipicting what happened)

but presuming i have the gist of it, if the mother wanted the child to continue to go to this school, where these pamphlets were distributed and the non custodial father objected to his child continuing to go to this public school, i would say the father would not have good reason to insist such....unless there was some proof that this harmed his child in some way.

There is no reason why the father could not take this booklet and go over it with his children and teach them why he disagrees with the booklet's view on this...if his children happened to even get a copy of it handed to them...

so, if i got the gist of the story right, this is how i think on it...

Care

I think we are going to end up not agreeing on this...for all we know the father wanted custody of the children and didn't get it...I can't see any real reason that his educational wishes for the kids don't have the same merit as the mother's wishes. I suppose he could go over and teach them evolution...if she lets him.

I don't see this as a slippery slope kind of thing, either, because I think this disagreement between the parents has merit and the judge was within his rights to mediate...as lame as his reasoning sounded. I'd like to know more about the case than was given in the WorldNutDaily link.

 

[driveby]

Unbelievable....

Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms

Go easy on the judge, he thinks the proper left wing ideology will not be taught with home schooling....

 

[driveby]

Unbelievable....

Judge orders homeschoolers into public district classrooms

Once again, you are either intentionally lying or show absolutely no understanding of the issues.

These people are going through a divorce. Mommy wants to homeschool. Daddy thinks it's bogus. In a divorce, a JUDGE gets to decide the best interests of the child. Aren't you guys always whining that daddy should have a say? Well, in a divorce, daddy GETS a say.

perhaps you need to read things that don't lie like you do.

oops , i didn't read it, didn't know it was a divorce case, that does change things.....

 

[driveby]

say "Bye Bye" to the so-called right of religious zealots to brainwash their children. It's about time these loonies were taken to task. BRAVO to the judge BRAVO !

Just when i thought i've seen your most retarded post ever, you top it......

 

[Tech_Esq]

This kind of thing drives me (a licensed educator in two states) completely batshit.

I support public education, but not the way we're currently doing it in most places.

And I defintiely DO NOT THINK that any state has the right to force children to go to public schools IF the parents are doing a good job educating their own kids.

And that, my friends, is how REAL LIBERALS ROLL.

I would never try to homeschool my kids. And I do think that the social side of a school education does have value. But, parents should have the right to make that decisions themselves.

In this case, you have two parents, each wanting something different. And while I support the rights of both parents, in this case, the father is putting his own interests above those of his kids. It seems like it's a matter of money as he most likely would need to provide more alimony to his wife so she can stay home to school the kids rather than working. To top things off, he is the one who couldn't keep his prick in his pants.

We have home schooled our three children for a period of 5 years. There was a particular reason it all started but I won't bore everyone with the background. It is definitely not easy and I would not recommend it for everyone. That said, with the right parents, it is quite doable to turn out a much better product than the school system could ever do.

Auditor, I wanted to respond specifically to your socialize point. What is it that you believe is so valuable about the socialization in school? Because I can tell you what the result is. I sent a young lady to 9th grade that had been home schooled for 5 years and was on a club swim team (one of the best in the country). In her first year back in public school she was captain of the swim team (yes, as a freshman). She placed in all AP courses where she excelled the entire year. By the second year swim team was over. Push back on the school work and basically a steady slide down hill from there. Due mostly to this great socializing that went on at school.

I'm thinking she'd have probably done better without it.

Now my two boys are a bit different. They don't bend to peer pressure much and are more likely to push back on others in their peer group when they want to do something wrong. On balance though, I would have to say that keeping them in school for "socialization" is the wrong way to go.