So no plane hit the Pentagon?

Did they? Did you see it yourself? Sheeple.

no, the world trade center and the pentagon dont really exist. they are all a zionist plot and images are entirely manufactured in hollywood.

in fact, 9-11-2001 never happened. people were secretly gassed by airplanes with chemtrails and given hypnotic suggestions of the events that day. when they awakened they thought they skipped a day and it was now 9-12-2001 but in reality it was only 9/11 and they had dreamed an extra day had happened.

And there wasn't one person in the Pentagon that wasn't a loyal Bushy. They got rid of any Democrats that worked at the Pentagon just like they appointed only wacko's to the Justice Department.

A bunch of Alberto Gonzales who recalled nothing.

Do us all a favor, go post your IGNORANT pap somewhere else. You are so fucking stupid there isn't even a word to describe your ignorance.

Where did the plane go? Where did the passengers and crew go? Please provide us with the type of missile that could do the damamge done to the Pentagon on 9/11.

By the way you dumb ass fuck, using the excuse " you did not see it" applies to your ignorant claim a missile hit the Pentagon.

THOUSANDS of people were involved in the clean up and investigation. Most of the aircraft including parts with SERIAL numbers on them were recovered at the site. Using your ignorant " you did not see it" also applies to EVERY accident or crime ever committed.
 
not as funny as the man that met Atta...and perhaps even some inside leads on the bomb laden van...nothing is funnier than that...agent fuzznuts

i've met lots of people. he was one of them. i dont care if you believe it or not. i probably wouldnt believe it if you claimed it either.

i dont have any "inside info" on the van and never said i did. i probably know more than you do but thats not difficult. :lol:

Can't keep your lies straight eh? First you met him then you didn't then you did....blah blah.
 
Ok Sunniman and Huggy explain where flight 77 went? How all the aircraft debris body parts and material got in the pentagon. Don't expect any help from troofers like Eots cause he has no idea according to him. Terrel will just make the claim there was never a flight to begin with.

If that is your claim explain how all the crew and passengers died and parts and bodies appeared in the Pentagon.

if you dint know, a UFO fell on pentagon. top secret.
 
no, the world trade center and the pentagon dont really exist. they are all a zionist plot and images are entirely manufactured in hollywood.

in fact, 9-11-2001 never happened. people were secretly gassed by airplanes with chemtrails and given hypnotic suggestions of the events that day. when they awakened they thought they skipped a day and it was now 9-12-2001 but in reality it was only 9/11 and they had dreamed an extra day had happened.

And there wasn't one person in the Pentagon that wasn't a loyal Bushy. They got rid of any Democrats that worked at the Pentagon just like they appointed only wacko's to the Justice Department.

A bunch of Alberto Gonzales who recalled nothing.

Do us all a favor, go post your IGNORANT pap somewhere else. You are so fucking stupid there isn't even a word to describe your ignorance.

Where did the plane go? Where did the passengers and crew go? Please provide us with the type of missile that could do the damamge done to the Pentagon on 9/11.

By the way you dumb ass fuck, using the excuse " you did not see it" applies to your ignorant claim a missile hit the Pentagon.

THOUSANDS of people were involved in the clean up and investigation. Most of the aircraft including parts with SERIAL numbers on them were recovered at the site. Using your ignorant " you did not see it" also applies to EVERY accident or crime ever committed.

I'll conceed those points that you made. I'm not married to the idea. So how the fuck did NORAD let a plane hit the Pentagon? Oh yea, Chaney was in control of NORAD. Never before has a US VP been in control of NORAD. Coincidence? Yea right.

I still say PNAC, a neo con group knew 9-11 was going to happen and allowed it because it would make Bush a wartime president and that was the only way they were going to push thru their very radical agenda. War for profit and massive outsourcing and tax breaks to the rich, deregulations, offshore tax havens, high gas prices, bankruptsies, renigging on pensions, breaking unions, healthcare goes up 191%, everything they wanted

They simply let it happen. Bush and Chaney and Rumsfeld planned all this out before 2000. Stole the election.

You don't even have to be a conspiracy theorist to know they are traitors. The rest of the world knows this. They lied.
 
Is it possible that the plane was shot down just prior to hitting the Pentagon and a further errant missile hit the pentagon by mistake?
Just saying.

No military aircraft was launched in time to do that, further where is the debris field from the wrecked air craft shot down? You do know that no missile we have will vaporize a 757?


Yet another classic example of OCTA ignorance. Jets were airborne BEFORE 77 was even hijacked.

"Two Air Force F-15s were dispatched from an Air Force base in Massachusetts, but they were not airborne until 8:53 a.m."
CNN.com - 'Stay quiet and you'll be OK,' Atta told passengers - Jun 18, 2004


Stuff like this is evidence the OCT is believed more on emotions than facts. It's clear most OCTAs are pretty ill informed and if they haven't researched the information their position cannot be based on fact.
 
And there wasn't one person in the Pentagon that wasn't a loyal Bushy. They got rid of any Democrats that worked at the Pentagon just like they appointed only wacko's to the Justice Department.

A bunch of Alberto Gonzales who recalled nothing.

Do us all a favor, go post your IGNORANT pap somewhere else. You are so fucking stupid there isn't even a word to describe your ignorance.

Where did the plane go? Where did the passengers and crew go? Please provide us with the type of missile that could do the damamge done to the Pentagon on 9/11.

By the way you dumb ass fuck, using the excuse " you did not see it" applies to your ignorant claim a missile hit the Pentagon.

THOUSANDS of people were involved in the clean up and investigation. Most of the aircraft including parts with SERIAL numbers on them were recovered at the site. Using your ignorant " you did not see it" also applies to EVERY accident or crime ever committed.

I'll conceed those points that you made. I'm not married to the idea. So how the fuck did NORAD let a plane hit the Pentagon? Oh yea, Chaney was in control of NORAD. Never before has a US VP been in control of NORAD. Coincidence? Yea right.

I still say PNAC, a neo con group knew 9-11 was going to happen and allowed it because it would make Bush a wartime president and that was the only way they were going to push thru their very radical agenda. War for profit and massive outsourcing and tax breaks to the rich, deregulations, offshore tax havens, high gas prices, bankruptsies, renigging on pensions, breaking unions, healthcare goes up 191%, everything they wanted

They simply let it happen. Bush and Chaney and Rumsfeld planned all this out before 2000. Stole the election.

You don't even have to be a conspiracy theorist to know they are traitors. The rest of the world knows this. They lied.

Your ignorance showing again. There were no Air support missions before 9-11 . No ready aircraft on the line with pilots to man them in case a plane flew to close to the white House. The air force could not have done anything and were even unable to scramble ARMED aircraft against the plane that went down in Pennsylvania.

It does not matter if mickey Mouse or John Wayne were running NORAD on 9-11 there were no assets anywhere to launch an aircraft to stop flight 77. They had a hard time arming a plane to go against the Pennsylvania flight. That is why I get such a chuckle out of the ignorant claims that an armed airforce jet shot that flight down. They were still arming aircraft at that time, they launched unarmed jets. The only thing those jets could have done is RAM the plane.

NORAD is DESIGNED to detect aircraft OUTSIDE the US border and provide intercept routes to stop them. Until 9-11 no one dreamed we would need anything like that INSIDE our own air space. With the wall going down 11 years earlier there were not even armed flights ready for outside attack either. No one dreamed they would need them.

I ask again, you have claimed no plane hit the Pentagon, lets play along and assume you are like Terrel and support the idea no plane was ever flying. Where did the dead passengers and crew come from we now claim were on flight 77? Why do their families believe they were all aboard that aircraft that never took off? Why were there radar tracks of said flight and of said flight after it turned off its transponder?

Who secreted massive amounts of a 757 wreckage into the pentagon blast site? Why did no fire and rescue people see this happening? Why did none of the investigators that FOUND the debris not notice it was not consistent with the plane hitting a reinforced BRICK wall?

You have said NO PLANE hit the Pentagon, you did not say you did not know, you said YOU KNOW no plane hit the Pentagon. Explain away all the facts that support the contention that the flight DID hit the building.
 
Is it possible that the plane was shot down just prior to hitting the Pentagon and a further errant missile hit the pentagon by mistake?
Just saying.

No military aircraft was launched in time to do that, further where is the debris field from the wrecked air craft shot down? You do know that no missile we have will vaporize a 757?


Yet another classic example of OCTA ignorance. Jets were airborne BEFORE 77 was even hijacked.

"Two Air Force F-15s were dispatched from an Air Force base in Massachusetts, but they were not airborne until 8:53 a.m."
CNN.com - 'Stay quiet and you'll be OK,' Atta told passengers - Jun 18, 2004


Stuff like this is evidence the OCT is believed more on emotions than facts. It's clear most OCTAs are pretty ill informed and if they haven't researched the information their position cannot be based on fact.

Without armaments. The dumb ass is you.
 
no, the world trade center and the pentagon dont really exist. they are all a zionist plot and images are entirely manufactured in hollywood.

in fact, 9-11-2001 never happened. people were secretly gassed by airplanes with chemtrails and given hypnotic suggestions of the events that day. when they awakened they thought they skipped a day and it was now 9-12-2001 but in reality it was only 9/11 and they had dreamed an extra day had happened.

And there wasn't one person in the Pentagon that wasn't a loyal Bushy. They got rid of any Democrats that worked at the Pentagon just like they appointed only wacko's to the Justice Department.

A bunch of Alberto Gonzales who recalled nothing.

Do us all a favor, go post your IGNORANT pap somewhere else. You are so fucking stupid there isn't even a word to describe your ignorance.

Where did the plane go? Where did the passengers and crew go? Please provide us with the type of missile that could do the damamge done to the Pentagon on 9/11.

By the way you dumb ass fuck, using the excuse " you did not see it" applies to your ignorant claim a missile hit the Pentagon.

THOUSANDS of people were involved in the clean up and investigation. Most of the aircraft including parts with SERIAL numbers on them were recovered at the site. Using your ignorant " you did not see it" also applies to EVERY accident or crime ever committed.


Where is a link on exactly which confirmed 77 parts were recovered?

Why do you keep practicing intellectual dishonesty by demanding to know where the people are if it wasn't 77 that hit the pent? Nobody needs to show what happened to them to show the official story is not true. There are several plausible scenarios of disposal but you want to use that to distract from the center issues. People have been convicted of murder when the body of the victim has never been recovered.
 
No military aircraft was launched in time to do that, further where is the debris field from the wrecked air craft shot down? You do know that no missile we have will vaporize a 757?


Yet another classic example of OCTA ignorance. Jets were airborne BEFORE 77 was even hijacked.

"Two Air Force F-15s were dispatched from an Air Force base in Massachusetts, but they were not airborne until 8:53 a.m."
CNN.com - 'Stay quiet and you'll be OK,' Atta told passengers - Jun 18, 2004


Stuff like this is evidence the OCT is believed more on emotions than facts. It's clear most OCTAs are pretty ill informed and if they haven't researched the information their position cannot be based on fact.

Without armaments. The dumb ass is you.


I love it when jackasses like you call others a dumb ass when you clearly are so damn clueless.


"That morning NEADS could call on two alert sites, each with one pair of ready fighters: Otis Air National Guard Base in Cape Cod, Massachusetts, and Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Virginia. Other facilities, not on "alert," would need time to arm the fighters and organize crews."
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

Pay attention to the last line sherlock. If non-alert locations needed time to arm that means the "alert" planes were already armed. Want more links? Would you like one that emphasizes the importance of being informed on an issue prior to speaking?
 
Do us all a favor, go post your IGNORANT pap somewhere else. You are so fucking stupid there isn't even a word to describe your ignorance.

Where did the plane go? Where did the passengers and crew go? Please provide us with the type of missile that could do the damamge done to the Pentagon on 9/11.

By the way you dumb ass fuck, using the excuse " you did not see it" applies to your ignorant claim a missile hit the Pentagon.

THOUSANDS of people were involved in the clean up and investigation. Most of the aircraft including parts with SERIAL numbers on them were recovered at the site. Using your ignorant " you did not see it" also applies to EVERY accident or crime ever committed.

I'll conceed those points that you made. I'm not married to the idea. So how the fuck did NORAD let a plane hit the Pentagon? Oh yea, Chaney was in control of NORAD. Never before has a US VP been in control of NORAD. Coincidence? Yea right.

I still say PNAC, a neo con group knew 9-11 was going to happen and allowed it because it would make Bush a wartime president and that was the only way they were going to push thru their very radical agenda. War for profit and massive outsourcing and tax breaks to the rich, deregulations, offshore tax havens, high gas prices, bankruptsies, renigging on pensions, breaking unions, healthcare goes up 191%, everything they wanted

They simply let it happen. Bush and Chaney and Rumsfeld planned all this out before 2000. Stole the election.

You don't even have to be a conspiracy theorist to know they are traitors. The rest of the world knows this. They lied.

Your ignorance showing again. There were no Air support missions before 9-11 . No ready aircraft on the line with pilots to man them in case a plane flew to close to the white House. The air force could not have done anything and were even unable to scramble ARMED aircraft against the plane that went down in Pennsylvania.

It does not matter if mickey Mouse or John Wayne were running NORAD on 9-11 there were no assets anywhere to launch an aircraft to stop flight 77. They had a hard time arming a plane to go against the Pennsylvania flight. That is why I get such a chuckle out of the ignorant claims that an armed airforce jet shot that flight down. They were still arming aircraft at that time, they launched unarmed jets. The only thing those jets could have done is RAM the plane.

NORAD is DESIGNED to detect aircraft OUTSIDE the US border and provide intercept routes to stop them. Until 9-11 no one dreamed we would need anything like that INSIDE our own air space. With the wall going down 11 years earlier there were not even armed flights ready for outside attack either. No one dreamed they would need them.

I ask again, you have claimed no plane hit the Pentagon, lets play along and assume you are like Terrel and support the idea no plane was ever flying. Where did the dead passengers and crew come from we now claim were on flight 77? Why do their families believe they were all aboard that aircraft that never took off? Why were there radar tracks of said flight and of said flight after it turned off its transponder?

Who secreted massive amounts of a 757 wreckage into the pentagon blast site? Why did no fire and rescue people see this happening? Why did none of the investigators that FOUND the debris not notice it was not consistent with the plane hitting a reinforced BRICK wall?

You have said NO PLANE hit the Pentagon, you did not say you did not know, you said YOU KNOW no plane hit the Pentagon. Explain away all the facts that support the contention that the flight DID hit the building.


Wanted to also point out the painful ignorance behind the whole "NORAD didn't anticipate the need to detect aircraft inside the US" bullshit. That very morning one of the training exercises was to respond to a commercial jet hijacked in the US.

There is also another scenario that was proposed and it's quite freaky.

"Five months before Sept. 11, 2001, an air defense planner proposed an exercise scenario in which military officials would have to deal with foreign terrorists who were threatening to crash a hijacked foreign commercial plane into the Pentagon, according to a North American Aerospace Defense Command spokesman."
Air Force News, news from Iraq - Air Force Times


Here's some more neat stuff.

"John Arquilla, an associate professor of defense analysis at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, later says that while “No one knew specifically that 20 people would hijack four airliners and use them for suicide attacks against major buildings… the idea of such an attack was well known, [and] had been war gamed as a possibility in exercises before Sept. 11.”


"Similarly, NORAD will state that before 9/11, it normally conducts four major exercises each year at headquarters level. Most of them include a hijack scenario, and some of them are apparently quite similar to the 9/11 attacks (see Between 1991 and 2001 and Between September 1999 and September 10, 2001)."
Complete 911 Timeline: Military Exercises Up to 9/11
 
not as funny as the man that met Atta...and perhaps even some inside leads on the bomb laden van...nothing is funnier than that...agent fuzznuts

i've met lots of people. he was one of them. i dont care if you believe it or not. i probably wouldnt believe it if you claimed it either.

i dont have any "inside info" on the van and never said i did. i probably know more than you do but thats not difficult. :lol:

Can't keep your lies straight eh? First you met him then you didn't then you did....blah blah.

i was in a bar at the same time as him. i already said that to eots. he seems to consider that "meeting him" although i dont. my comment was to him. i dont really feel like arguing over the semantics of the situation with him, or you. it is what it is and has always been the same.
 
tells us the one about how the how he was harassing stripper and how the FBI interviewed you...twice !..that's my fave !...there must be more to the story if they interview you twice !...please share...
 
tells us the one about how the how he was harassing stripper and how the FBI interviewed you...twice !..that's my fave !...there must be more to the story if they interview you twice !...please share...

Oh, that's rich. An id-eot with zero credibility trying to mock somebody else for something he has said!

Once again, Id-eots has no fucking clue; but since he has an agenda, he thinks HIS own simplistic and bombastic disbelief somehow qualifies as a good basis to doubt Fizz. :cuckoo:

Just another example of why id-eots is an idiot.
 
tells us the one about how the how he was harassing stripper and how the FBI interviewed you...twice !..that's my fave !...there must be more to the story if they interview you twice !...please share...

stripper is your word, not mine. public nudity is illegal in the philippines therefore so is stripping.

they interviewed lots of people twice. the second time seemed mostly to see if we recognized other people they had photos of. i didnt recognize anyone else.

you can always contact the FBI at the manila embassy if you want more info. here's the number 011-63-2-523-10010.
 
popular mechanics give it up already,,,he held a tail section in his hand ? tail sections are huge..bodies ..well yes something just hit the pentagon so there are bodies..wing imprints...give me a break were are the wings then what about mike Walters report he saw the wings fold back and follow the plane in ...lol..popular mechanics

So the man is lieing? Do you not get yet what a ridiculous counter argument it is to attack the messenger rather than the message?
 
popular mechanics give it up already,,,he held a tail section in his hand ? tail sections are huge..bodies ..well yes something just hit the pentagon so there are bodies..wing imprints...give me a break were are the wings then what about mike Walters report he saw the wings fold back and follow the plane in ...lol..popular mechanics

So the man is lieing? Do you not get yet what a ridiculous counter argument it is to attack the messenger rather than the message? I'll give you some options to pick from to make it easy, You're contention is what:

Mr. Killsheimer is lieing?

Mr. Killsheimer doesn't know what he's talking about?

Mr. Killsheimer was coerced into saying what he said?

Popular mechanics made up what Mr. Kilsheimer said?

Those are your options. Pick one.
 
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popular mechanics give it up already,,,he held a tail section in his hand ? tail sections are huge..bodies ..well yes something just hit the pentagon so there are bodies..wing imprints...give me a break were are the wings then what about mike Walters report he saw the wings fold back and follow the plane in ...lol..popular mechanics

So the man is lieing? Do you not get yet what a ridiculous counter argument it is to attack the messenger rather than the message? I'll give you some options to pick from to make it easy, You're contention is what:

Mr. Killsheimer is lieing?

Mr. Killsheimer doesn't know what he's talking about?

Mr. Killsheimer was coerced into saying what he said?

Popular mechanics made up what Mr. Kilsheimer said?

Those are your options. Pick one.


PM is trustworthy like britney spears is the modern American Bach. The tail section is 44 feet tall. If this guy held it in one hand then I need to find him asap for a contract with the highest bidding NBA team.


Kilsheimer is a liar or ignorant or both. PM doesn't care about fact checking, as proven with this one example of claiming he found the black box.

Carlton Burkhammer
 
Where is a link on exactly which confirmed 77 parts were recovered?

Why do you keep practicing intellectual dishonesty by demanding to know where the people are if it wasn't 77 that hit the pent? Nobody needs to show what happened to them to show the official story is not true. There are several plausible scenarios of disposal but you want to use that to distract from the center issues. People have been convicted of murder when the body of the victim has never been recovered.

Yeah, but any defense lawyer will tell you that it is much harder to try a case without a body. When someone is convicted of murder when the body of the victim has never been recovered, there has to be a plausible explanation of what happened on the night of the murder. There has to be some plausible explanation of what happened to the body, even if it is not found. You have to have a plausible explanation of what happened to all those passengers on the plane, and how personal effects were found at the Pentagon?

You want to tell us what such a plausible scenario might be?
 
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Where is a link on exactly which confirmed 77 parts were recovered?

Why do you keep practicing intellectual dishonesty by demanding to know where the people are if it wasn't 77 that hit the pent? Nobody needs to show what happened to them to show the official story is not true. There are several plausible scenarios of disposal but you want to use that to distract from the center issues. People have been convicted of murder when the body of the victim has never been recovered.

Yeah, but any defense lawyer will tell you that it is much harder to try a case without a body. When someone is convicted of murder when the body of the victim has never been recovered, there has to be a plausible explanation of what happened on the night of the murder. There has to be some plausible explanation of what happened to the body, even if it is not found. You have to have a plausible explanation of what happened to all those passengers on the plane, and how personal effects were found at the Pentagon?

You want to tell us what such a plausible scenario might be?

In addition to the numerous eyewitness accounts, the remains of the passengers and crew on board American Airlines flight 77 were recovered from the Pentagon crash site. A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77). All but one of the passengers on board American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims. These positive forensic identifications provide irrefutable proof that American Airlines flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11. In addition, rescue and recovery personnel at the Pentagon reported seeing the bodies of airline passengers. The September 14, 2001, edition of USA Today reported, “When [Army Sergeant Mark] Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped in their seats.”

Plane Debris Found at Pentagon Crash Site

People who went to the Pentagon crash site reported seeing parts of an airplane, including the nose cone, landing gear, an airplane tire, the fuselage, an intact cockpit seat, and the tail number of the airplane, as reported in an e-mail to a conspiracy theory Web site that debunks the conspiracy theory claims. The e-mail also contains photographs of airplane landing gear, tires, and fuselage fragments, which were taken at the Pentagon crash site. Moreover, the “black boxes” — the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder — for American Airlines flight 77 were found at the Pentagon crash site. For more photographs of debris from the airliner, including the crumpled "C" from "American Airlines," see portions 4:57 to 6:00 of the "911 Case Study: Pentagon Flight 77" video.

Read more: Did a Plane Hit the Pentagon?
 
Where is a link on exactly which confirmed 77 parts were recovered?

Why do you keep practicing intellectual dishonesty by demanding to know where the people are if it wasn't 77 that hit the pent? Nobody needs to show what happened to them to show the official story is not true. There are several plausible scenarios of disposal but you want to use that to distract from the center issues. People have been convicted of murder when the body of the victim has never been recovered.

Yeah, but any defense lawyer will tell you that it is much harder to try a case without a body. When someone is convicted of murder when the body of the victim has never been recovered, there has to be a plausible explanation of what happened on the night of the murder. There has to be some plausible explanation of what happened to the body, even if it is not found. You have to have a plausible explanation of what happened to all those passengers on the plane, and how personal effects were found at the Pentagon?

You want to tell us what such a plausible scenario might be?

In addition to the numerous eyewitness accounts, the remains of the passengers and crew on board American Airlines flight 77 were recovered from the Pentagon crash site. A team of more than 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77). All but one of the passengers on board American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims. These positive forensic identifications provide irrefutable proof that American Airlines flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11. In addition, rescue and recovery personnel at the Pentagon reported seeing the bodies of airline passengers. The September 14, 2001, edition of USA Today reported, “When [Army Sergeant Mark] Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped in their seats.”

Plane Debris Found at Pentagon Crash Site

People who went to the Pentagon crash site reported seeing parts of an airplane, including the nose cone, landing gear, an airplane tire, the fuselage, an intact cockpit seat, and the tail number of the airplane, as reported in an e-mail to a conspiracy theory Web site that debunks the conspiracy theory claims. The e-mail also contains photographs of airplane landing gear, tires, and fuselage fragments, which were taken at the Pentagon crash site. Moreover, the “black boxes” — the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder — for American Airlines flight 77 were found at the Pentagon crash site. For more photographs of debris from the airliner, including the crumpled "C" from "American Airlines," see portions 4:57 to 6:00 of the "911 Case Study: Pentagon Flight 77" video.

Read more: Did a Plane Hit the Pentagon?

So CurveLight

What is the plausible explanation for this? Are all the eyewitnesses lying? I can provide a list of a few hundred documented eyewitnesses. There were over 100 forensic scientists. Are they all lying? Rescuers saw the bodies. How did the bodies get there? Were those not parts of the airline on the ground?
 

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