So much for buy american! walmart to outsource even more!

[Shogun]

It's not a dumb theory...It's basic econ 101.

I'm old enough to remember the exact kind of ignorant economic populist and trade isolationist whining-n-crying about products that came from Japan, Indonesia, Hong Kong, and Taiwan.

Guess what happened...Not only did America become a more wealthy place, but those places from whence America received the "outsourced" production of those goods became wealthier themselves.

America's wealth grew out of people of all backgrounds creating added value to raw materials, not merely form union labor.

If anyone here is short on knowledge of history and economics, it's you Bubba.

yea dude! Our auto industry sure is reflective of yout silly little hypothesis, lemme tellya!

our auto industry is the text book example of how NOT to run a profitable business.

In fact after the shit American auto companies produced in the 70s, and the much improved cars thereafter shows how imports improved American companies but in the long run they couldn't adapt and compete could they?

Certainly the SUV fiasco is an example of the failures of American auto... but I'll buy a fucking ford Mustang over a Hyundai any day. You go ahead and hang with the 2 fast 2 furious crowd if you wanna. You won't find cheap toyotas from the 80s lasting any longer than dodge omnis did.

 

[Shogun]

so, are you suggesting that China is just "better" at making tennis shoes? I call shennanigans. Japan isn't "better" than America in making cars. Neither is Mexico. The only difference in location is the cost of labor; Here in the US where the globe likes to sell their shit WE demand a base minimum standard of living instead of fostering a culture where dirt poor human beings will work for 54 grains of rice per product they make. House painters and farmers employ a skill or trade which is simply not unique, nor BETTER, if applied at some foreign location. I think the failure of your post is in the application of your econ theory.


If you want a toe I'll get you a toe. fucking amateurs.

Depends upon what you mean by "better".

Even though Japan (arguably) isn't any better than making cars than America, basic economic rules of efficiency dictated that they build factories in America, rather than build them in Japan and ship them.

Aren't you afraid that Americans are "stealing" Japanese jobs??

No. In fact, they can have them back. Those cheap ass local factories are about as economically profound as an after school job at mcdonalds considering their pay scale compared to the consuming ability of a single UAW worker at an American plant.


Tell me, can you consume more goods if you make 9 dollars an hour working for a hyundai factory in the US or 24 dollars an hour working for a UAW location in Detroit? Further, where do you think executive capital gets spent after profits are divied up between the two? In Detroit or fucking Japan? I take it you didn't want to admit that your application was flawed..

 

[Oddball]

Certainly the SUV fiasco is an example of the failures of American auto... but I'll buy a fucking ford Mustang over a Hyundai any day. You go ahead and hang with the 2 fast 2 furious crowd if you wanna. You won't find cheap toyotas from the 80s lasting any longer than dodge omnis did.

The SUV "fiasco" is a failure of a central gubmint dictating to industry, and ultimately the customer, what kinds of cars they shroud or shoudln't be building and buying.

The only reson for the existence of the SUV -the Vega, Pinto an Omni to boot- are federal CAFE standards, which dictated that the only acceptable measure of fuel efficiency is miles per gallon.

 

[WillowTree]

Wal-Mart Stores has shortlisted top Indian tech firms, including TCS, Infosys and Wipro, for an outsourcing contract potentially worth up to $500 million over next few years, as the retailer seeks to award multiple contracts for managing its business applications and other back office activities.

At least two people familiar with Wal-Mart's outsourcing strategy told ET on conditions of anonymity that the retailer is expected to start outsourcing more to India within six months.

"Wal-Mart has been testing the waters by outsourcing smaller projects to companies such as Infosys, TCS and Wipro. Now, the retailer wants to flesh out a more comprehensive outsourcing strategy and has shortlisted these tech vendors," said a senior executive of one of the tech firms exploring business opportunities with Wal-Mart. He requested anonymity because he is not authorised to speak to media.

Wal-Mart to Start Outsourcing More to India - BusinessWeek

Yeah and? if it made business sense to keep the jobs in this country, Wal Mart might actually do that, huh? I wonder why it doesn't make business sense.... hmmm......

so it makes MORE business sense to screw americans out of jobs that they are capable of doing! Oh yeah I forgot it would cut into profit margins to pay american workers 7-9 bucks on hour when you can save that profit and keep more in their already fat wallet, overpaid asses by outsourcing at half or better of the cost! viva la capitalism!

you mean the way Gettlefinger Motors and the Democwats did??

 

[Oddball]

No. In fact, they can have them back. Those cheap ass local factories are about as economically profound as an after school job at mcdonalds considering their pay scale compared to the consuming ability of a single UAW worker at an American plant.

Who died and made you the prime arbiter of which jobs are "economically profound" or not??

Tell me, can you consume more goods if you make 9 dollars an hour working for a hyundai factory in the US or 24 dollars an hour working for a UAW location in Detroit? Further, where do you think executive capital gets spent after profits are divied up between the two? In Detroit or fucking Japan? I take it you didn't want to admit that your application was flawed..

I make even more with my own small construction and real estate ventures. Ultimately, working for the man is a waste of anyone's life.

The days of the 30-year tenured 9-to-5 J-O-B are over....Time to get over it.

 

[Agnapostate]

Are you operating under the delusion that Wal Mart is some sort of an employment agency for American Workers? Hate to break it to you but Wal Mart is a for profit company which means that they have a responsibility to their share holders to maximize profit.

That's merely another example of how the profit maximization motive is in fact destructive in a capitalist economy, whereas it could be more productively utilized in a socialist economy. For example, market and wealth concentration are natural consequences of profit maximization in a capitalist economy, but they inhibit the establishment of more efficient firms, and thus undermine legitimately competitive market enterprise. A socialist economy would not suffer from this deficiency.

As to Wal-Mart itself, the adverse effects that the chain generally has on the economy are well-documented by the empirical literature. For example, we could analyze the work of Goetz and Swaminathan in Wal-Mart and County-Wide Poverty. Consider the abstract:

After carefully and comprehensively accounting for other local determinants of changes in poverty, we find that the presence of Wal-Mart was unequivocally associated with smaller reductions in family-poverty rates in U.S. counties during the 1990s relative to places that had no stores. This was true not only in terms of existing stores in a county in 1987, but also an independent outcome of new stores built between 1987 and 1998.

Of similar empirical value is Zhang et al.'s The effects of Wal-Mart on local labor markets. Its abstract is similarly telling:

We estimate the effects of Wal-Mart stores on county-level retail employment and earnings, accounting for endogeneity of the location and timing of Wal-Mart openings that most likely biases the evidence against finding adverse effects of Wal-Mart stores. We address the endogeneity problem using a natural instrumental variables approach that arises from the geographic and time pattern of the opening of Wal-Mart stores, which slowly spread out from the first stores in Arkansas. The employment results indicate that a Wal-Mart store opening reduces county-level retail employment by about 150 workers, implying that each Wal-Mart worker replaces approximately 1.4 retail workers. This represents a 2.7 percent reduction in average retail employment. The payroll results indicate that Wal-Mart store openings lead to declines in county-level retail earnings of about $1.4 million, or 1.5 percent. Of course, these effects occurred against a backdrop of rising retail employment, and only imply lower retail employment growth than would have occurred absent the effects of Wal-Mart.

So honestly, Wal-Mart settlements effectively transfer wealth from the working poor to consumers and stockholders.

 

[Shogun]

Certainly the SUV fiasco is an example of the failures of American auto... but I'll buy a fucking ford Mustang over a Hyundai any day. You go ahead and hang with the 2 fast 2 furious crowd if you wanna. You won't find cheap toyotas from the 80s lasting any longer than dodge omnis did.

The SUV "fiasco" is a failure of a central gubmint dictating to industry, and ultimately the customer, what kinds of cars they shroud or shoudln't be building and buying.

The only reson for the existence of the SUV -the Vega, Pinto an Omni to boot- are federal CAFE standards, which dictated that the only acceptable measure of fuel efficiency is miles per gallon.

hehehe.. yea, dude.. 'cause that ebil ole gobmint sure did tell GM to pump out SUVs and fuckin HUMMERS during a period when gas prices had skyrocketted through the roof. sure, dude. do you see boogeymen in your closet too?


And, I totally agree with Fuel Efficiency standards. Especially in newer model cars. I STILL see omnis being driven. And, you can't touch the longevity of a fucking ford Taurus. How many early model Hyundais do you still see on the road?

 

[WillowTree]

Listen if you were a poor billionaire, like the Waltons, you'd see how tough it was to make ends meet. Greed motivates walmart, but greed motivates its customers too. Buy cheap junk - it makes you feel better about your third world wages. When you look at the collapse of Russia it is obvious it came from inside. America will collapse too if our children have no jobs and all work goes to third world nations.

Offshoring: The Next Industrial Revolution? | Foreign Affairs

Wal-Mart Watch | Fighting for Wal-Mart Workers | Employee Free Choice Act
WAL-MART: The High Cost of Low Price
Value and Values at Wal-Mart -- Behind That Implacable Smiley Face
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Wal-Mart Subsidy Watch - brought to you by Good Jobs First


I buy widget X, that person supports me too - cars bicycles tools all made here.

MadeInUSA.com : Search over 300,000 US manufacturers and American made products
American Made Products Directory - Made in USA, United States Manufacturers
Made in USA, Made in America, US, American-Made
UAW Made Products

what if people go to wal mart and don't buy cheap junk? for instance,, a 12 pack of diet pepsi at wal mart is $4.88 at Publix it is $6.15.. I'm going to buy my pepsi at wal mart,, and other stuff too having nothing to do with China.

 

[RodISHI]

I buy very few things at wally world...

They have a Cheese that is made in Wisconsin that other stores do not sell. Fact they have products that other grocery stores here do not carry. I usually find that the products at wally world or more expensive than at the local grocery store where I go shopping.

I used to buy dollar material but now that it's two bucks I normally pass. How many textile companies that make material are left in the US?

I buy things on sale there.. I mean really cheap stuff when it get's down to little of nothing. I love their after Christmas sales. I bought packages of poly fill for 30 cents a package. Three plant hangers for a buck a piece and candles for ten cents each (candles are nice lighting when the electric is off). Do we have many candle factories left here in the US?

I get to wondering this. If it get's to a point where no one has a job and no one can afford to buy what the government and CEO's are selling, what happens?

 

[Shogun]

No. In fact, they can have them back. Those cheap ass local factories are about as economically profound as an after school job at mcdonalds considering their pay scale compared to the consuming ability of a single UAW worker at an American plant.

Who died and made you the prime arbiter of which jobs are "economically profound" or not??

Tell me, can you consume more goods if you make 9 dollars an hour working for a hyundai factory in the US or 24 dollars an hour working for a UAW location in Detroit? Further, where do you think executive capital gets spent after profits are divied up between the two? In Detroit or fucking Japan? I take it you didn't want to admit that your application was flawed..

I make even more with my own small construction and real estate ventures. Ultimately, working for the man is a waste of anyone's life.

The days of the 30-year tenured 9-to-5 J-O-B are over....Time to get over it.

Well, your opinion of what you think is OVER means very little to me. You found yourself a nice little niche; good for you. But, you and your kind don't provide the kind of middle class support that UAW Auto workers did. Having to rely on your feast or famine input is about as tempting as blindly gambling with the stock market. No thanks.

And, everyone who can see the economic impact of a 24 dollar UAW job versus the 9 dollar Suzuki job is who will eventually get tired of the kind of bullshit you keep typing. If you can't see the difference in the economic impact between both examples then I guess it's clear why you keep posting theoretical bullshit instead of concrete examples; which, ironically, was the kind of trap alan Greenspan fell into THIS side of the giant fubar result of his economic theory which you share. Care to see some Greenspan quotes? I bet you dont.

 

[Shogun]

I buy very few things at wally world...

They have a Cheese that is made in Wisconsin that other stores do not sell. Fact they have products that other grocery stores here do not carry. I usually find that the products at wally world or more expensive than at the local grocery store where I go shopping.

I used to buy dollar material but now that it's two bucks I normally pass. How many textile companies that make material are left in the US?

I buy things on sale there.. I mean really cheap stuff when it get's down to little of nothing. I love their after Christmas sales. I bought packages of poly fill for 30 cents a package. Three plant hangers for a buck a piece and candles for ten cents each (candles are nice lighting when the electric is off). Do we have many candle factories left here in the US?

I get to wondering this. If it get's to a point where no one has a job and no one can afford to buy what the government and CEO's are selling, what happens?

they rationalize importing wealthier foreigners and relegate you to a marginalized demographic. Do you find it mysterious why they won't hesitate to sell a fucking US port to some asshole in Dubai? This is the Great American Yard Sale, yo! From Belgian vampires buying the "American" Lager to selling chinese made American flags... You are only as important as how cheap your labor is. even in your own nation.

 

[RodISHI]

But has not the American public allowed that to happen, Shogun?

 

[Shogun]

But has not the American public allowed that to happen, Shogun?

thats like asking if the American public allowed child labor and Bell Labs monopolies to occur. Is that question more important than the answer to when we put an end to it?

 

[Oddball]

Well, your opinion of what you think is OVER means very little to me. You found yourself a nice little niche; good for you. But, you and your kind don't provide the kind of middle class support that UAW Auto workers did. Having to rely on your feat or famine input is about as tempting as blindly gambling with the stock market. No thanks.

Your criteria of what constitutes "support of the middle class" isn't shared with everyone else. There are as many differing values hierarchies out there as there are people.

If you value having a supposedly steady job at an auto plant for 30 years, that's your funeral. That choice, and the risks that come along with it, gives neither you nor anyone else any room to go around pretending that your version of "security" trumps the values and benefits gained, and risks taken, by anyone else in their given field of endeavor.

And, everyone who can see the economic impact of a 24 dollar UAW job versus the 9 dollar Suzuki job is who will eventually get tired of the kind of bullshit you keep typing. If you can't see the difference in the economic impact between both examples then I guess it's clear why you keep posting theoretical bullshit instead of concrete examples; which, ironically, was the kind of trap alan Greenspan fell into THIS side of the giant fubar result of his economic theory which you share. Care to see some Greenspan quotes? I bet you dont.

No.....YOU can see that, and subsequently *ahem* ASSume that your observations and values hierarchy are the only which are legitimate for others to have.

 

[Vel]

...still waiting on if it is ok to buy an American flag made in China?

Sorry I missed that, yeah sure if I was in the market for an American Flag, I'd buy whichever one was the lowest cost at a quality level I found acceptable and if that one happened to be made in China then that would be the one I'd buy.

Why would any rational person behave differently ?[/QUOTE]



A rational person might behave differently because sometimes the principle is worth more than the few pennies saved. I know when I purchase Chinese goods that I'm in truth supporting the communist Chinese government.

 

[WillowTree]

But has not the American public allowed that to happen, Shogun?

They sure as heck did. The American public got sick and tired of paying top dollar for inferior products.. ie american cars.. you want Americans to buy America give us something good and affordable to buy.

 

[strollingbones]

so it makes MORE business sense to screw americans out of jobs that they are capable of doing! Oh yeah I forgot it would cut into profit margins to pay american workers 7-9 bucks on hour when you can save that profit and keep more in their already fat wallet, overpaid asses by outsourcing at half or better of the cost! viva la capitalism!

Are you operating under the delusion that Wal Mart is some sort of an employment agency for American Workers? Hate to break it to you but Wal Mart is a for profit company which means that they have a responsibility to their share holders to maximize profit. If they could pursue that objective by keeping those jobs in the United States they would, however apparently they can get the same services at a cheaper price elsewhere and not doing so would be idiotic and be grounds for dismissing it's management.

Let me ask you this, do you regularly buy american made products which are more expensive than foreign produced alternatives just because they are made in America, or do you attempt (like the vast majority of us) to get the best value for your hard earned dollar?

i try to buy american as much as possible. i have posted the american products sight but i am sure you are capable of googling....i have an oreck vaccuum, know why? of course not you are too busy showing how smart you are....about this and that..and nothing really

 

[Oddball]

hehehe.. yea, dude.. 'cause that ebil ole gobmint sure did tell GM to pump out SUVs and fuckin HUMMERS during a period when gas prices had skyrocketted through the roof. sure, dude. do you see boogeymen in your closet too?

GM built those cars WELL BEFORE the price of gas went up to $4.00/gal.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler created the SUV because Americans still want large cars, and truck chassis were exempt from the original CAFE standards.

Just another example of people getting what they want, and the marketplace delivering to them, no matter what a bunch of authoritarian do-gooders believe is "best" for them.

 

[strollingbones]

dude thinks paragliding which you can do at the coast for a fee is living on the edge....thats a fat edge there

 

[Shogun]

Well, your opinion of what you think is OVER means very little to me. You found yourself a nice little niche; good for you. But, you and your kind don't provide the kind of middle class support that UAW Auto workers did. Having to rely on your feat or famine input is about as tempting as blindly gambling with the stock market. No thanks.

Your criteria of what constitutes "support of the middle class" isn't shared with everyone else. There are as many differing values hierarchies out there as there are people.

If you value having a supposedly steady job at an auto plant for 30 years, that's your funeral. That choice, and the risks that come along with it, gives neither you nor anyone else any room to go around pretending that your version of "security" trumps the values and benefits gained, and risks taken, by anyone else in their given field of endeavor.

And, everyone who can see the economic impact of a 24 dollar UAW job versus the 9 dollar Suzuki job is who will eventually get tired of the kind of bullshit you keep typing. If you can't see the difference in the economic impact between both examples then I guess it's clear why you keep posting theoretical bullshit instead of concrete examples; which, ironically, was the kind of trap alan Greenspan fell into THIS side of the giant fubar result of his economic theory which you share. Care to see some Greenspan quotes? I bet you dont.

No.....YOU can see that, and subsequently *ahem* ASSume that your observations and values hierarchy are the only which are legitimate for others to have.

Like I said, homey.. if YOU think you have more economic impact making 9 dollars than 24 then you probably should have picked a different school at which to take an econ class. Your opinion about the value of a solid, stable UAW middle class, and the American culture it produced, means two things to me. Go ahead and ask around what those two things are. They begin with a J and an S. Again, there is a reason why you rely on theoretical bullshit rather than concrete facts. I'll spare you the Greenspan quotes because I'd hate to burst that iridescent little bubble you seem to be floating in. Let's just say that his POST-fubar quotes don't particularly match his PRE-fubar quotes. Care to guess which one matches your posts?