so many of you talk about the poor and underpriveledged

[Katzndogz]

There are plenty of "bums" out there who won't work, and no amount of money can persuade them to work either. Some are insulted that you would offer them "slavery" their time and freedom is priceless.

I once gave some clean up work to one of the alcoholics that decorated the neighborhood. To my utter shock, awe and surprise, he did a very good job. I asked him to take the job permanently. He said that due to his alcoholism he was on SSI. He was, to his mind, getting paid for being an alcoholic. If he worked, he wouldn't spend as much time being drunk. That might threaten his SSI for which he didn't need to do any work at all.

It made perfect sense. He was employed by the federal government as an alcoholic. Getting drunk and being drunk was job security.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Oh..you caught a typo. Bravo!

You think that we are proud of our daughter's messy room. You fail to comprehend.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There are plenty of "bums" out there who won't work, and no amount of money can persuade them to work either. Some are insulted that you would offer them "slavery" their time and freedom is priceless.

I once gave some clean up work to one of the alcoholics that decorated the neighborhood. To my utter shock, awe and surprise, he did a very good job. I asked him to take the job permanently. He said that due to his alcoholism he was on SSI. He was, to his mind, getting paid for being an alcoholic. If he worked, he wouldn't spend as much time being drunk. That might threaten his SSI for which he didn't need to do any work at all.

It made perfect sense. He was employed by the federal government as an alcoholic. Getting drunk and being drunk was job security.

Plenty? Lots? A large portion? All bullshit.

How Many???????????

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Oh..you caught a typo. Bravo!

You think that we are proud of our daughter's messy room. You fail to comprehend.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JuVjI6gPPI&feature=youtube_gdata_player]The Dark Knight: Joker's Laugh - YouTube[/ame]

 

[snjmom]

There are plenty of "bums" out there who won't work, and no amount of money can persuade them to work either. Some are insulted that you would offer them "slavery" their time and freedom is priceless.

I once gave some clean up work to one of the alcoholics that decorated the neighborhood. To my utter shock, awe and surprise, he did a very good job. I asked him to take the job permanently. He said that due to his alcoholism he was on SSI. He was, to his mind, getting paid for being an alcoholic. If he worked, he wouldn't spend as much time being drunk. That might threaten his SSI for which he didn't need to do any work at all.

It made perfect sense. He was employed by the federal government as an alcoholic. Getting drunk and being drunk was job security.

That was just a rationalization. In his mind, he was getting paid to be an alcoholic. In reality, he wouldn't be on SSI if he was capable of not drinking and working permanently. If he would have said yes, you would have discovered this when you finally fired him for not showing up and/or being drunk all the time.

I have the local panhandlers poop-scoop for me once in a while for 10 and a couple of sandwiches. Cheaper than the professional services, but you always run the risk of the "occasional handyman" murder/robbery spree.

 

[Againsheila]

Just for the sake of argument, Gramps, what should the entertainment budget be for a family of 4 whose parents work but earn an income that still qualifies for public assistance?

Tent - $40 and it lasts for years.
Free - Hiking the Sierra Nevada's, the Rockies or Blue Ridge Parkway.
Free - Swimming at a coastal beach or inland lake.

Reading - free books at the public library
Playing with kids - public parks are also free

Just ask yourself what families did for entertainment before all those pricey little electronic gizmos existed, and go do that.

When we were kids, my parents took us to the Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium. It's not free anymore, it's not even free to get into the park and forget about the gas to get there.

We played pick up at the local baseball field, now it's locked and the only people allowed to use it are organized sports teams.

We picked berries in the local field, now it has homeless living there and parents won't let their kids go there.

Camping isn't free anymore....and I don't know of any family tents that cost $40 or less.

We used to swim in the local lake but now it's filled with parasites.

We used to feed the ducks at another lake but now it's completely surrounded by apartments and condos and even if you could get to the lake, it's illegal to feed the ducks.

We used to play kickball in the street, now there's too much traffic, and we even have speed bumps.

We used to collect polliwogs, and play Tom Sawyer at the local swamp, but it's gone too.

books at the local library are still free but they don't have a lot of choices, unless you get online and reserve the books and pick them up later, and of course, you have to have an address to get a library card.

Even the playgrounds at the local elementary schools aren't the same. No slides, no swings, no merry go rounds...don't want to endanger the kids.

You have to wonder about people who haven't noticed how much the world has changed.

 

[Flopper]

Thanks. She is motivated, I was a single mother most of her life but never out of work for long. You just have to keep going.

We have to have more people like her. It's not only motivation, but pride and a sense of personal responsibility. Something many have lost.

We have the same number of people with pride and a sense of personal responsibility as we have ever had.

The problem with personal responsibility is its really shared responsibility. For example, Lester is serving a life term for murder. It was an open an and shut case. He killed a man during a robbery. He alone committed the crime and boar the consequences of the act. Lester's life history is pretty common, a single parent family with an alcoholic mother who taught him by word and deed that he can't make it in life no matter how hard he tries. Lester's school attendance was spotty. By the six grade, teachers considered him a lost cause. In high school, he was shunned by classmates and got into a gang. He was arrested and sent to a juvenile facility where he was to complete his education and learn a skill. The only thing taught was how to survive in the outside world with no education and no skills. He was latter convicted of a several petty crimes and finally murder. The court found that he and he alone was responsible. But was he the only one responsible? Weren't there others responsible, the alcohol mother, the school that failed to help him as child, the classmates that shunned him, juvenile facility that failed to prepare him for life outside.

Although there is clearly shared responsibility, courts must hold the person that committed the crime fully responsible. However, if we are to solve social problems, we must treat them as shared responsibility and take actions to correct the situation. Many say we can't afford it. I submitted to you, that we can't afford not to. In Lester's case, if he had the right family life and schooling, he could have been a very productive member of society adding hundreds of thousands of dollars to our GDP. Instead his trials and imprisonment cost the state over 2 million dollars and that doesn't include the child support for his two kids who will likely follow in footsteps, or the financial impact on society of those he robbed or murdered.

 

[Chris]

Another blame the poor thread from a Republican.

What a surprise!

 

[jgarden]

But you seemingly have no perspective on what it means to truly be poor. Or why someone is in that situation.

The terms are thrown around on USMB anytime it serves your personal agenda or ideology without giving any thought to what constitutes their personal circumstances. I've told my story a couple times so I won't go into it again but sufficed to say most of you are clueless.

Most of the time a mere lack of priorities leads a family down the wrong path. How many times have you stopped to help a homeless person to offer help only to have it denied? I have many times. On occasion I've offered to work someone with a "will work for food" sign only to have them put out their cigarette (which cost money) and tell me they really
only had time for cash gifts.

Then you have families that can barely afford to put food on the table yet they have cable and xboxes. My brother is one of those people. He is right now as we speak sleeping in my basement despite being told to find a job by this Monday or get out.

I am tired of people always saying we have to do more for the poor when a large portion of them won't even help themselves. I lifted myself from poverty so why do I have to do for others what they can do for themselves? I'm not saying we shouldn't have a safety net but I am saying the able but unwilling can fall through our safety net for all I care.

The Greatest Commandment (Matthew 22:36-40)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is a reoccurring theme in the Bible that how we judge/treat others is how we, ourselves, will be ultimately judged/treated.

By choosing to judge others harshly instead of following The Greatest Commandment, "Grampa Murked U" and those who share his opinions, have passed judgement on themselves.

 

[editec]

I do so love all these anecdotal stories from our resident right wing cranks about how they offered a poor person a job but those welfare frauds said they're rather not work.

I remember once I offered a rich man a lucrative contract once, but he said he'd rather steal money from poor people.

Yeah really, true story.

 

[MeBelle]

The problem with personal responsibility is its really shared responsibility. For example, Lester is serving a life term for murder. It was an open an and shut case. He killed a man during a robbery. He alone committed the crime and boar the consequences of the act. Lester's life history is pretty common, a single parent family with an alcoholic mother who taught him by word and deed that he can't make it in life no matter how hard he tries. Lester's school attendance was spotty. By the six grade, teachers considered him a lost cause. In high school, he was shunned by classmates and got into a gang. He was arrested and sent to a juvenile facility where he was to complete his education and learn a skill. The only thing taught was how to survive in the outside world with no education and no skills. He was latter convicted of a several petty crimes and finally murder. The court found that he and he alone was responsible. But was he the only one responsible? Weren't there others responsible, the alcohol mother, the school that failed to help him as child,
the classmates that shunned him, juvenile facility that failed to prepare him for life outside.
Although there is clearly shared responsibility, courts must hold the person that committed the crime fully responsible. However, if we are to solve social problems, we must treat them as shared responsibility and take actions to correct the situation. Many say we can't afford it. I submitted to you, that we can't afford not to. In Lester's case, if he had the right family life and schooling, he could have been a very productive member of society adding hundreds of thousands of dollars to our GDP. Instead his trials and imprisonment cost the state over 2 million dollars and that doesn't include the child support for his two kids who will likely follow in footsteps, or the financial impact on society of those he robbed or murdered.

Playing Devil's Advocate here...
Are you saying that Government run schools and Government run juvie centers failed Lester?
How can one put the responsibility for Lester on his peers who were also children?
Where was the REST of Lester's family?

 

[Sarah G]

Thanks. She is motivated, I was a single mother most of her life but never out of work for long. You just have to keep going.

We have to have more people like her. It's not only motivation, but pride and a sense of personal responsibility. Something many have lost.

Or those like my brother that never learned such values.

Tomorrow is going to be problematic for me. I gave him an ultimatum and he clearly isn't gonna be successful.

Fuck!

My point was not that she is so much more motivated than others but to start thinking more creatively when you (or when you are suggesting ideas to your brother) are looking. My brother in law was laid off for awhile and he cleaned bars after hours.

He could be depressed and not just lazy. Keep suggesting specific things that you see in the paper, etc.. Give him a directive to get dressed and go, don't just threaten to throw him out. Good luck, it's hard I know but you want your brother to be ok so he can get hell out.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Another blame the poor thread from a Republican.

What a surprise!

Another know nothing post from a lib who is so utterly clueless that he didn't realize that the thread is about him more than it is about the poor.

Exploit away

 

[Claudette]

Be interesting to see how the freeloaders do when the money runs out.

I'll just bet these folks can do a dandy job of taking care of themselves when the free ride stops.

Its always easy to spend someone elses money especially when you never ever have to pay it back. Of course you don't give a shit who worked their ass off to provide it either.

The only problem is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

 

[Againsheila]

Be interesting to see how the freeloaders do when the money runs out.

I'll just bet these folks can do a dandy job of taking care of themselves when the free ride stops.

Its always easy to spend someone elses money especially when you never ever have to pay it back. Of course you don't give a shit who worked their ass off to provide it either.

The only problem is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

Remember the French Revolution? Yeah, that's what'll happen. I'm hoping it happens soon.

Running out of other people's money? Yeah, that's a laugh. The income gap is so big in this country that less than 10% of the people in it own more wealth than 90% of the people. No nation can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

 

[Claudette]

Be interesting to see how the freeloaders do when the money runs out.

I'll just bet these folks can do a dandy job of taking care of themselves when the free ride stops.

Its always easy to spend someone elses money especially when you never ever have to pay it back. Of course you don't give a shit who worked their ass off to provide it either.

The only problem is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

Remember the French Revolution? Yeah, that's what'll happen. I'm hoping it happens soon.

Running out of other people's money? Yeah, that's a laugh. The income gap is so big in this country that less than 10% of the people in it own more wealth than 90% of the people. No nation can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

Well whose money do you think provides the rent, food and medical care for all the poor and downtrodden?? Yep. You got it. Whoever pays Fed taxes. BTW a good portion of those Fed taxes are payed by those "evil" rich folks.

Our Govt has decided that whoever pays taxes is responsible for those that can't or won't take care of themselves. Pretty high handed if you ask me. Believe me if I had a choice not one dime of my hardearned money would go toward that end.

As for the income gap?? I don't pay much attention to it becasue I get by quite well thanks. I'm also not envious of rich folks like you obviously are.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Tent - $40 and it lasts for years.
Free - Hiking the Sierra Nevada's, the Rockies or Blue Ridge Parkway.
Free - Swimming at a coastal beach or inland lake.

Reading - free books at the public library
Playing with kids - public parks are also free

Just ask yourself what families did for entertainment before all those pricey little electronic gizmos existed, and go do that.

When we were kids, my parents took us to the Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium. It's not free anymore, it's not even free to get into the park and forget about the gas to get there.

We played pick up at the local baseball field, now it's locked and the only people allowed to use it are organized sports teams.

We picked berries in the local field, now it has homeless living there and parents won't let their kids go there.

Camping isn't free anymore....and I don't know of any family tents that cost $40 or less.

We used to swim in the local lake but now it's filled with parasites.

We used to feed the ducks at another lake but now it's completely surrounded by apartments and condos and even if you could get to the lake, it's illegal to feed the ducks.

We used to play kickball in the street, now there's too much traffic, and we even have speed bumps.

We used to collect polliwogs, and play Tom Sawyer at the local swamp, but it's gone too.

books at the local library are still free but they don't have a lot of choices, unless you get online and reserve the books and pick them up later, and of course, you have to have an address to get a library card.

Even the playgrounds at the local elementary schools aren't the same. No slides, no swings, no merry go rounds...don't want to endanger the kids.

You have to wonder about people who haven't noticed how much the world has changed.

What you should be wondering is whether or not you're living in the wrong place, with an insanely negative "I'll find some reason why I can't change things" attitude.

If you don't have an address with which to get a library card, then you have bigger problems than wondering what to do for entertainment besides electronics.

What the hell's wrong with going online and reserving books? The library has computers you can do that on, and also allows you to order them from other branches if the one nearest you doesn't have a copy. Or, at least, my library does.

The parks and the baseball fields and play areas in the parks are still free where I live, and I suspect in most towns and cities. And because Tucson's citizens finally wised up and demanded that the laws and the cops crack down on the homeless problem, most of them are very pleasant, even in the poorer areas of town.

Tucson doesn't have lakes, being in a desert and all, but it DOES have community centers with pools for very nominal fees during the hotter parts of the year.

The largest park in town, Reid Park, has a huge duck pond where people can feed the ducks if they wish. It also has a rose garden where you can wander and see examples of a vast variety of roses (quite pretty and peaceful), and a band shell where you can see concerts and Shakespeare in the Park. The zoo is there, and while it's not free, it's not expensive. When I had just my first child, twenty-some years ago, we used to save up a little every week so that we could go to the zoo every so often.

All of the elementary schools in my city have really spiffy play areas. My kid loves 'em. Of course, Arizona's not as dumb and paranoid as some places.

I also used to take my daughter to wander the shopping malls. Most of them have play areas, and once I had it through her head that we weren't buying, but just browsing, she had a great time. The important thing to her - and this is the operative point that people forget - was that she had my undivided attention for the entire day.

I suggest you use some of the imagination you're spending on making excuses to think of ways to enjoy life without big bucks, and possibly investigate living somewhere more amenable to a simple lifestyle.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But you seemingly have no perspective on what it means to truly be poor. Or why someone is in that situation.

The terms are thrown around on USMB anytime it serves your personal agenda or ideology without giving any thought to what constitutes their personal circumstances. I've told my story a couple times so I won't go into it again but sufficed to say most of you are clueless.

Most of the time a mere lack of priorities leads a family down the wrong path. How many times have you stopped to help a homeless person to offer help only to have it denied? I have many times. On occasion I've offered to work someone with a "will work for food" sign only to have them put out their cigarette (which cost money) and tell me they really
only had time for cash gifts.

Then you have families that can barely afford to put food on the table yet they have cable and xboxes. My brother is one of those people. He is right now as we speak sleeping in my basement despite being told to find a job by this Monday or get out.

I am tired of people always saying we have to do more for the poor when a large portion of them won't even help themselves. I lifted myself from poverty so why do I have to do for others what they can do for themselves? I'm not saying we shouldn't have a safety net but I am saying the able but unwilling can fall through our safety net for all I care.

The Greatest Commandment (Matthew 22:36-40)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

38 This is the first and greatest commandment.

39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There is a reoccurring theme in the Bible that how we judge/treat others is how we, ourselves, will be ultimately judged/treated.

By choosing to judge others harshly instead of following The Greatest Commandment, "Grampa Murked U" and those who share his opinions, have passed judgement on themselves.

Sorry, Sparkles, but loving someone doesn't mean I have to think they're wonderful or that every word that comes out of their mouths is philosophical brilliance. Sometimes, the most loving thing we can do for someone is to tell them when they're being a self-defeating jackass.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Be interesting to see how the freeloaders do when the money runs out.

I'll just bet these folks can do a dandy job of taking care of themselves when the free ride stops.

Its always easy to spend someone elses money especially when you never ever have to pay it back. Of course you don't give a shit who worked their ass off to provide it either.

The only problem is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

Remember the French Revolution? Yeah, that's what'll happen. I'm hoping it happens soon.

Running out of other people's money? Yeah, that's a laugh. The income gap is so big in this country that less than 10% of the people in it own more wealth than 90% of the people. No nation can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

Oh, really? You're hoping the French Revolution happens again?

When the mobs stormed the Bastille - which only had six prisoners in it at the time, because it was in the process of being closed down - the prison's commander, Marquis de Launay, tried repeatedly to surrender it, requiring only that it be done peacefully. The mobs refused and ended up hacking him to death and then mutilating the body. They stuck his head on a pike and danced in the streets with it.

When an armed mob stormed the Tuileries on August 10, 1792, they murdered every single person there. Women were raped and hacked to death. Members of the mob tore pieces off the mutilated corpses and carried them away as trophies. Children played kickball with the heads. The bodies were left to rot in the streets for days as a warning.

Another mob attacked a Carmelite convent, chopping the clergy they found there into pieces and throwing the bodies down a well. Later discovery of this well unearthed 119 skeletons down there.

I can go on and on, but I think we all get the idea. And you hope this happens again soon, do you? You're looking forward to blood running in the streets and mutilated bodies rotting, are you? Hoping to wear an ear on your blouse as a decoration, perhaps, or were you wanting to pull a heart out of someone's body and drink the blood from it (both documented occurrences during the French Revolution)?

You should be ashamed of yourself, either for your disgusting savagery or your woeful ignorance, whichever led you to say such an incredibly stupid thing.

 

[Katzndogz]

Be interesting to see how the freeloaders do when the money runs out.

I'll just bet these folks can do a dandy job of taking care of themselves when the free ride stops.

Its always easy to spend someone elses money especially when you never ever have to pay it back. Of course you don't give a shit who worked their ass off to provide it either.

The only problem is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

Remember the French Revolution? Yeah, that's what'll happen. I'm hoping it happens soon.

Running out of other people's money? Yeah, that's a laugh. The income gap is so big in this country that less than 10% of the people in it own more wealth than 90% of the people. No nation can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

Oh, really? You're hoping the French Revolution happens again?

When the mobs stormed the Bastille - which only had six prisoners in it at the time, because it was in the process of being closed down - the prison's commander, Marquis de Launay, tried repeatedly to surrender it, requiring only that it be done peacefully. The mobs refused and ended up hacking him to death and then mutilating the body. They stuck his head on a pike and danced in the streets with it.

When an armed mob stormed the Tuileries on August 10, 1792, they murdered every single person there. Women were raped and hacked to death. Members of the mob tore pieces off the mutilated corpses and carried them away as trophies. Children played kickball with the heads. The bodies were left to rot in the streets for days as a warning.

Another mob attacked a Carmelite convent, chopping the clergy they found there into pieces and throwing the bodies down a well. Later discovery of this well unearthed 119 skeletons down there.

I can go on and on, but I think we all get the idea. And you hope this happens again soon, do you? You're looking forward to blood running in the streets and mutilated bodies rotting, are you? Hoping to wear an ear on your blouse as a decoration, perhaps, or were you wanting to pull a heart out of someone's body and drink the blood from it (both documented occurrences during the French Revolution)?

You should be ashamed of yourself, either for your disgusting savagery or or woeful ignorance, whichever led you to say such an incredibly stupid thing.

The left is really using the French Revolution as their protest model. That is EXACTLY what they want.

Their error is in thinking that there is a majority in this country that supports them. Since there isn't, and we are an armed society, I too wish they would start their glorious revolution soon.