So I Called My Local Islamic Center &

It's the same thing. Churches are not required to do certain things, but they may. If someone doesn't like what the church is doing they are free to find another.

It's pretty simple.

I don't think that was at issue here, there weren't implications of legality or freedom, just mistreatment of women as subservient.

It's pretty simple.
Again, the sexes are being separated. If this is mistreating women it is also mistreating men.

Yeah, you go with that Ravi.... :lol:
 
As a Christian, I get to sit beside my husband at church and share the experience with him, and God doesn't care what I where or what I look like, what's important is that I'm there.
We seek neither your approval or disapproval.

Islam is what it is.

If you feel more comfortable in a church setting next to your husband.

Than that is where you should go. :cool:
 
maybe I should write down a list of questions

I think it would be interesting to find out why so many muslims not only dislike israel but hate it?

Makes sure to ask that peaceful nice man what he thinks of Hamas, Israel and Al Qaeda? Bet you will get a tap dance around those issues. Well maybe not Israel, its PC to bash Israel nowadays!

Don't forget to tell him your a Jews that strongly supports Israel, you might want to open that way and see where the conversation goes.

I encourage anyone interested in learning about any religion to visit their local house of worship.

I cant speak for atheists, or others. Only myself

How about you ask him to come here and prove with scripture non muslims are innocent .
I hear many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
 
As a Christian, I get to sit beside my husband at church and share the experience with him, and God doesn't care what I where or what I look like, what's important is that I'm there.

St. Paul is rolling in his grave, Newby.

How do you figure that, Kalam?

He says that God cares what you look like in terms of dress:
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. - I Corinthians 11:5-6​

Apparently, he would also prefer that you keep silent:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. - I Corinthians 14:34-35

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - I Timothy 2:11-12​

What gives?
 
told her I had some questions about some of the versus.

She was very sweet/polite, and told me questions are fine, and that I could come in whenever and ask an Imam.

I reccomend, if you have questions about islam, doing the same thing.

I also want to apologize to the boards muslims for being at times, hateful and mean spirited.

I am sorry, and dont want to hate, or dislike anyone simply based on what religion they choose

ANM...you are a hoot ! fer real...you are something else...sometimes you are so far off base but you have a real passion and to understand and a courage in seeing where you might be not completely correct...all in all you seem to be a likable fellow and a sincere being ...cheers
 
St. Paul is rolling in his grave, Newby.

How do you figure that, Kalam?

He says that God cares what you look like in terms of dress:
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. - I Corinthians 11:5-6​
Apparently, he would also prefer that you keep silent:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. - I Corinthians 14:34-35

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - I Timothy 2:11-12​
What gives?
Yep. All of the major religions are extremely patriarchal and have historically looked down on women. Which is why I belong to none of them.

Odd it only bothers Newby in certain cases, though.
 
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But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. - I Corinthians 11:5-6​

Apparently, he would also prefer that you keep silent:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. - I Corinthians 14:34-35

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - I Timothy 2:11-12​

What gives?
This is in the New Testament.

Which is the foundational book of Christianity that all Christians believe in. :eusa_angel:
 
As a Christian, I get to sit beside my husband at church and share the experience with him, and God doesn't care what I where or what I look like, what's important is that I'm there.
We seek neither your approval or disapproval.

Islam is what it is.

If you feel more comfortable in a church setting next to your husband.

Than that is where you should go. :cool:

But I'm asking WHY it is that way? Why are men and women separated?
 
How do you figure that, Kalam?

He says that God cares what you look like in terms of dress:
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. - I Corinthians 11:5-6​
Apparently, he would also prefer that you keep silent:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. - I Corinthians 14:34-35

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - I Timothy 2:11-12​
What gives?
Yep. All of the major religions are extremely patriarchal and have historically looked down on women. Which is why I belong to none of them.

Odd it only bothers Newby in certain cases, though.

Really?? That was you looking down on muslim practices earlier in this thread??? You're really a lot of laughs, Ravi... :lol:
 
St. Paul is rolling in his grave, Newby.

How do you figure that, Kalam?

He says that God cares what you look like in terms of dress:
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. - I Corinthians 11:5-6​

Apparently, he would also prefer that you keep silent:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. - I Corinthians 14:34-35

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - I Timothy 2:11-12​

What gives?

Are those the words of God or Jesus? They are the words of a man reflecting the social customs and ethical norms of his day. The Jesus that I know would not care, he defied the standards of 1st century male dominated society and treated women as equals.
 
As a Christian, I get to sit beside my husband at church and share the experience with him, and God doesn't care what I where or what I look like, what's important is that I'm there.
We seek neither your approval or disapproval.

Islam is what it is.

If you feel more comfortable in a church setting next to your husband.

Than that is where you should go. :cool:

But I'm asking WHY it is that way? Why are men and women separated?
Have you ever been to a Synogogue and worshipped with the Jews?

They also have segregated seating for men and women.


If fact Jesus participated in by the gender separation for both prayers and dinners.

And not once did Jesus speak out against it or try to change the practice.
 
Are those the words of God or Jesus? They are the words of a man reflecting the social customs and ethical norms of his day. The Jesus that I know would not care, he defied the standards of 1st century male dominated society and treated women as equals.

So you are saying that the Bible (New Testament) is NOT the word of God, but the word of man?
 
How do you figure that, Kalam?

He says that God cares what you look like in terms of dress:
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. - I Corinthians 11:5-6​
Apparently, he would also prefer that you keep silent:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. - I Corinthians 14:34-35

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - I Timothy 2:11-12​
What gives?

Are those the words of God or Jesus? They are the words of a man reflecting the social customs and ethical norms of his day. The Jesus that I know would not care, he defied the standards of 1st century male dominated society and treated women as equals.
Riiiiiiiiight! That's why he had all those women apostles.

:lol:
 
We seek neither your approval or disapproval.

Islam is what it is.

If you feel more comfortable in a church setting next to your husband.

Than that is where you should go. :cool:

But I'm asking WHY it is that way? Why are men and women separated?
Have you ever been to a Synogogue and worshipped with the Jews?

They also have segregated seating for men and women.


If fact Jesus participated in by the gender separation for both prayers and dinners.

And not once did Jesus speak out against it or try to change the practice.

That doesn't answer my question tho? We're not in ancient times anymore.
 
Are those the words of God or Jesus? They are the words of a man reflecting the social customs and ethical norms of his day. The Jesus that I know would not care, he defied the standards of 1st century male dominated society and treated women as equals.

So you are saying that the Bible (New Testament) is NOT the word of God, but the word of man?

Paul's letters to the Corinthians is what makes up the books of Corinthians. So, yes, that particular passage was written in a letter by Paul, a man.

Jewish women did not normally wear veils, but reputable Greek and Roman women did at the time Paul wrote the letter. A woman's veil was a symbol of her modesty and respect for her husband. For a Corinthian woman to remove her veil in public would have been an insult to her husband and an affront to the Greek/Roman society in which she lived. Paul strongly discouraged any such rebellion or hint of scandal within the churches. In addition, some pagan priestesses removed their veils and wore their hair disheveled when prophesying. Thus, women should remain veiled while praying or prophesying to avoid any association with paganism.

I think the general idea was modesty and propriety, and a veil represented that during the time Paul wrote the letter.
 
Are those the words of God or Jesus? They are the words of a man reflecting the social customs and ethical norms of his day. The Jesus that I know would not care, he defied the standards of 1st century male dominated society and treated women as equals.

So you are saying that the Bible (New Testament) is NOT the word of God, but the word of man?

Paul's letters to the Corinthians is what makes up the books of Corinthians. So, yes, that particular passage was written in a letter by Paul, a man.

Jewish women did not normally wear veils, but reputable Greek and Roman women did at the time Paul wrote the letter. A woman's veil was a symbol of her modesty and respect for her husband. For a Corinthian woman to remove her veil in public would have been an insult to her husband and an affront to the Greek/Roman society in which she lived. Paul strongly discouraged any such rebellion or hint of scandal within the churches. In addition, some pagan priestesses removed their veils and wore their hair disheveled when prophesying. Thus, women should remain veiled while praying or prophesying to avoid any association with paganism.
I see, so you are a Cafeteria Christian.

Just pick and choose what parts of the Bible you believe in and disregard the rest.

So please tell me, which parts of the Bible are from God; and which parts are from man? :doubt:
 
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So you are saying that the Bible (New Testament) is NOT the word of God, but the word of man?

Paul's letters to the Corinthians is what makes up the books of Corinthians. So, yes, that particular passage was written in a letter by Paul, a man.

Jewish women did not normally wear veils, but reputable Greek and Roman women did at the time Paul wrote the letter. A woman's veil was a symbol of her modesty and respect for her husband. For a Corinthian woman to remove her veil in public would have been an insult to her husband and an affront to the Greek/Roman society in which she lived. Paul strongly discouraged any such rebellion or hint of scandal within the churches. In addition, some pagan priestesses removed their veils and wore their hair disheveled when prophesying. Thus, women should remain veiled while praying or prophesying to avoid any association with paganism.
I see, so you are a cafeteria Christian.

Just pick and choose what parts of the Bible you believe in and disregard the rest.

So please tell me, which parts of the Bible are from God; and which parts are from man? :doubt:

Cookie cutter anti-christian post, try again. What's the matter, can't you answer my questions??

You at least answer the question as to why muslims are insistant in living like it's still the 7th century tho. You can't take the message and separate it from the social customs of the time in which it was given. It explains why muslims still dress as they do, your holy book demands that you remain in the garb of the 7th century or you're not following Allah's exact words, is that it? Do you think that Allah never meant for human civilization to advance, to remain as it was in the 7th century forever?

Jesus Christ delivered the message that salvation was thru Him and accepting Him as your personal savior. He cares not about the color of your skin, how much money you have, how you dress, where you work, he only cares about the intentions of your heart.
 
Cookie cutter anti-christian post, try again. What's the matter, can't you answer my questions??
How is my question somehow anti-christian?? :confused:

Most christians I know say the the Bible is 100% the word of God.

Yet, you said the word's of Paul was not from God, but was just the words of a man.

So I am just wondering how you divide the Bible into God's words and man's words?

Is it by the book or by the verse?
 
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