So, How Come You're Still A Leftie?

[Cecilie1200]

Yeah, I know what socialism means. Apparently you are having trouble seeing it in America? Notice that word collective? Do you know what that word means?? To gather, like in community, or commune.


Definition of SOCIALISM
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Perhaps you should look at the words BEING MODIFIED by the word "collective", dimwit. "Ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution". So I ask again: how are your "community programs" socialist?

And I pray that you'll learn to use the quote function better than you use the dictionary before you answer me.

 

[shintao]

this is just one reason why i do not look forward to Republicans being in control, again.

No one should be trusted more than yourself. But could you be trusted to run government? Could you work everyday at making America what you want it to be?

Or,....do you need these bozos in DC to run your life in America? To have limited choices of candidates, most very rich candidates out of touch with your lifestyle and beholden to others.

My All Volunteer Government can provide the means to you, so you run government. All Volunteer Government Party (AVGP)

 

[shintao]

Perhaps you should look at the words BEING MODIFIED by the word "collective", dimwit. "Ownershipd and administration of the means of production and distribution". So I ask again: how are your "community programs" socialist?

And I pray that you'll learn to use the quote function better than you use the dictionary before you answer me.

You are the one who screwed up the quotes.

Notice the "OR" imbecile? That means either. Know what either means? One or the other nitwit. So in the sentence it means collective OR/EITHER/TAKE YOUR PICK .......etc.

Why are you such a dumbass? Can't even figure out the difference between socialist and capitalism. No you don't ask me again. I was the one who asked you dipstick. And you answered the question when you said "community." Capitalism doesn't promote community. They promote individualism, and if any program, it would be in private hands, not community or government hands.

 

[JBeukema]

The fact of the matter is that America is a socialist nation. The FF envisioned it as such; despite the Liberal rhetoric, Paine's Agrarian Justice and Jefferson's comments on tariffs only effecting the rich show us that they knew Liberalism was doomed to failure.

You're funny.

Agrarian Justice - Thomas Paine

"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the
whole taxes of the General Government are levied... Our revenues
liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus
applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see
his government supported, his children educated, and the face of
his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich
alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." --Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811.

 

[Bfgrn]

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Hey PC, I've been around since Harry Truman was President, so I lived through a good portion of the liberal era that started with the New Deal and ended with the Great Society. It was America's finest moment. It was an era with huge economic growth and shared wealth, fantastic successes in technology, vast expansion of citizen freedoms and liberties and the growth of a middle class that defined this country and made America the 'city on the hill', the envy of the world.

That era ended at the end of the 1960's and the conservative era began. It has continued ever since. It has been a negative mirror image of the liberal era. We now lead the world only in the dubious like incarcerating human beings, killing innocent people and launching Hirohito sneak attacks on sovereign nations.

So my question PC, what blame do Republicans and conservatives deserve? You can't have the power, profess 'personable responsibility', then turn around and blame those without power.

 

[QUENTIN]

“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”
How facts backfire - The Boston Globe

This is both true and really ironic considering you support the Republican Party in the immediate aftermath of their tremendous failure over the last decade.

Really though, your problem is that you conflate being a leftie/liberal with being a Democrat when not only are they not the same thing but they're in opposition to each other.

Democrats do not serve the interests of leftists or the liberal agenda, they serve the interests of the monied and corporate agenda. Leftists don't support Democrats and remain leftists regardless of what the not-at-all-leftist Democratic party does.

Your question is the equivalent of asking libertarians why they're still libertarians after the Republicans started two foreign wars and increased spending... it's because they're not involved with the shitty party in the first place and what the shitty party does isn't a reflection on or in relation to what they want or do.

 

[daveman]

The fact of the matter is that America is a socialist nation. The FF envisioned it as such; despite the Liberal rhetoric, Paine's Agrarian Justice and Jefferson's comments on tariffs only effecting the rich show us that they knew Liberalism was doomed to failure.

You're funny.

Agrarian Justice - Thomas Paine

"The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the
whole taxes of the General Government are levied... Our revenues
liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus
applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see
his government supported, his children educated, and the face of
his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich
alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." --Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811.

"The fact of the matter is that America is a socialist nation."

Wasn't intended to be. Idiots fucked it up.

 

[JBeukema]

So the FF were idiots and fucked up the nation?

I'll grant you that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Founders made great leaps and stumbled badly as well. To suggest that all of their efforts are to be preserved in stone and not modified beggars reason. The facts are these: all Americans are entitled to an equal chance at opportunity; the corporations should not be empowered to control government; and neither the left nor the right should be able to recreate facts and rewrite history to suit their political agendas.

 

[Bfgrn]

The Founders made great leaps and stumbled badly as well. To suggest that all of their efforts are to be preserved in stone and not modified beggars reason. The facts are these: all Americans are entitled to an equal chance at opportunity; the corporations should not be empowered to control government; and neither the left nor the right should be able to recreate facts and rewrite history to suit their political agendas.

The Earth Belongs to the Living

"The idea that institutions established for the use of the nation cannot be touched nor modified even to make them answer their end because of rights gratuitously supposed in those employed to manage them in trust for the public, may perhaps be a salutary provision against the abuses of a monarch but is most absurd against the nation itself. Yet our lawyers and priests generally inculcate this doctrine and suppose that preceding generations held the earth more freely than we do, had a right to impose laws on us unalterable by ourselves, and that we in like manner can make laws and impose burdens on future generations which they will have no right to alter; in fine, that the earth belongs to the dead and not the living." --Thomas Jefferson to William Plumer, 1816. ME 15:46

"I set out on this ground which I suppose to be self-evident: 'That the earth belongs in usufruct to the living;' that the dead have neither powers nor rights over it... We seem not to have perceived that by the law of nature, one generation is to another as one independent nation to another." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:454, Papers 15:392

"Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right. It may be said, that the succeeding generation exercising, in fact, the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law had been expressly limited to nineteen years only. In the first place, this objection admits the right, in proposing an equivalent. But the power of repeal is not an equivalent. It might be, indeed, if every form of government were so perfectly contrived, that the will of the majority could always be obtained, fairly and without impediment. But this is true of no form. The people cannot assemble themselves; their representation is unequal and vicious. Various checks are opposed to every legislative proposition. Factions get possession of the public councils, bribery corrupts them, personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents; and other impediments arise, so as to prove to every practical man, that a law of limited duration is much more manageable than one which needs a repeal."

"This principle, that the earth belongs to the living and not to the dead,... will exclude... the ruinous and contagious errors... which have armed despots with means which nature does not sanction, for binding in chains their fellow-men." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:460, Papers 15:396

 

[daveman]

So the FF were idiots and fucked up the nation?

I'll grant you that.

Yeah, they weren't political geniuses like Lenin who built and empire that has stood the test of time and...

Oh, wait.

 

[daveman]

The Founders made great leaps and stumbled badly as well. To suggest that all of their efforts are to be preserved in stone and not modified beggars reason. The facts are these: all Americans are entitled to an equal chance at opportunity; the corporations should not be empowered to control government; and neither the left nor the right should be able to recreate facts and rewrite history to suit their political agendas.

The problem is you leftists don't want equality of opportunity. You want equality of outcome.

 

[Rinata]

Hasn't the OP done similar posts before?? I don't see what the purpose is.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hasn't the OP done similar posts before?? I don't see what the purpose is.

The intention was to pose a question to the intelligent leftie, and ask same to consider that the results of leftist policies have been less than successful, and, therefore, why remain committed to a failed philosophy...

But, as I say, it was for intelligent lefties, who might just reconsider and learn from their errors...so, you can see, Rinata, the OP really wasn't meant for you.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hasn't the OP done similar posts before?? I don't see what the purpose is.

Hey, I just noticed that you changed your avatar!

Remember way back when I suggested you would?

Prescient, wasn't I?

I like this one: "Obama Rocks In His Head."

 

[PoliticalChic]

“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”
How facts backfire - The Boston Globe

This is both true and really ironic considering you support the Republican Party in the immediate aftermath of their tremendous failure over the last decade.

Really though, your problem is that you conflate being a leftie/liberal with being a Democrat when not only are they not the same thing but they're in opposition to each other.

Democrats do not serve the interests of leftists or the liberal agenda, they serve the interests of the monied and corporate agenda. Leftists don't support Democrats and remain leftists regardless of what the not-at-all-leftist Democratic party does.

Your question is the equivalent of asking libertarians why they're still libertarians after the Republicans started two foreign wars and increased spending... it's because they're not involved with the shitty party in the first place and what the shitty party does isn't a reflection on or in relation to what they want or do.

Interesting post.

Actually, I only post in favor of the Republicans when lefties, Democrats, say biased things about them, and I try to show that almost always the Dems are worse.

I consider myself a conservative, and vote with the party that most closely represents my views...

Your attempt to separate liberal from Democrat is a similar attempt, except that it is a distinction without a difference...as the Democrat party has been co-opted by liberals/progressives.

"...a leftie/liberal with being a Democrat when not only are they not the same thing but they're in opposition to each other."
This is totally false.

They are one and the same.

Their aims, policies, methods and provenance is the same.

a. Does President Obama believe in three separate branches of government? Well, Congress refused to pass his commission idea, so in the SOTU he said he’d just use executive order to create it. And he insisted that Congress overturn the Supreme Court decision…or, I guess, another executive order?

b. Ms. Clinton: “"I prefer the word ‘progressive,’ which has a real American meaning, going back to the progressive era at the beginning of the 20th century.” Hillary Clinton: I’m Not a Liberal
Hillary Clinton: I’m Not a Liberal

c. Axelrod claims the WH is Progressive:

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j4PxJ4uH-t4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j4PxJ4uH-t4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[kyzr]

&#8220;The general idea is that it&#8217;s absolutely threatening to admit you&#8217;re wrong,&#8221; says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon &#8212; known as &#8220;backfire&#8221; &#8212; is &#8220;a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.&#8221;
How facts backfire - The Boston Globe

This is both true and really ironic considering you support the Republican Party in the immediate aftermath of their tremendous failure over the last decade.

Really though, your problem is that you conflate being a leftie/liberal with being a Democrat when not only are they not the same thing but they're in opposition to each other.

Democrats do not serve the interests of leftists or the liberal agenda, they serve the interests of the monied and corporate agenda. Leftists don't support Democrats and remain leftists regardless of what the not-at-all-leftist Democratic party does.

Your question is the equivalent of asking libertarians why they're still libertarians after the Republicans started two foreign wars and increased spending... it's because they're not involved with the shitty party in the first place and what the shitty party does isn't a reflection on or in relation to what they want or do.

Interesting post.

Actually, I only post in favor of the Republicans when lefties, Democrats, say biased things about them, and I try to show that almost always the Dems are worse.

I consider myself a conservative, and vote with the party that most closely represents my views...

Your attempt to separate liberal from Democrat is a similar attempt, except that it is a distinction without a difference...as the Democrat party has been co-opted by liberals/progressives.

"...a leftie/liberal with being a Democrat when not only are they not the same thing but they're in opposition to each other."
This is totally false.

They are one and the same. Their aims, policies, methods and provenance are the same.

a. Does President Obama believe in three separate branches of government? Well, Congress refused to pass his commission idea, so in the SOTU he said he&#8217;d just use executive order to create it. And he insisted that Congress overturn the Supreme Court decision&#8230;or, I guess, another executive order?

b. Ms. Clinton: &#8220;"I prefer the word &#8216;progressive,&#8217; which has a real American meaning, going back to the progressive era at the beginning of the 20th century.&#8221; Hillary Clinton: I&#8217;m Not a Liberal

c. Axelrod claims the WH is Progressive...

You and I are politically similar in that we don't like either major party. For many years they both allowed 42,000 factories to move overseas and other jobs Wall Street wanted to outsource. The whores both got bought-off and now they are blaming each other for the 10% current unemployment rate. There just might be a reason that China has so much cash, its called "creating wealth", the service economy does not create wealth in the trade-balance and currency value sense of wealth.

 

[Liberty]

The Constitution was written by Liberals

there is a difference between classical john locke style liberals and modern social liberals, idiot.

 

[Liberty]

Socialism is a stage of socio-economic development following the failure of capitalism and the rise in the consciousness of the proletariat. It is marked by the unequal distribution of capital, the growing role central planning in the economy, the attempt to curb capitalism and prevent the rise of oligopolies and monopolies, and the increasing socialization of resources...

I see you have read marx. I am slightly amused that you are dumb enough to agree with him. I will enjoy watching your ideology crash and burn. The American people will reach the tipping point and fight for freedom once again. Just wait.

 

[Liberty]

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Hey PC, I've been around since Harry Truman was President, so I lived through a good portion of the liberal era that started with the New Deal and ended with the Great Society. It was America's finest moment. It was an era with huge economic growth and shared wealth, fantastic successes in technology, vast expansion of citizen freedoms and liberties and the growth of a middle class that defined this country and made America the 'city on the hill', the envy of the world.

That era ended at the end of the 1960's and the conservative era began. It has continued ever since. It has been a negative mirror image of the liberal era. We now lead the world only in the dubious like incarcerating human beings, killing innocent people and launching Hirohito sneak attacks on sovereign nations.

So my question PC, what blame do Republicans and conservatives deserve? You can't have the power, profess 'personable responsibility', then turn around and blame those without power.

Did you just say the new deal was was America's finest moment? Really? You truly are a whack job.