So, How Come You're Still A Leftie?

[Justin Buell]

It would be the best of all possible worlds if Liberals and Conservatives finally killed each other off and left America to the Independants.

So this is your example of talking about the issues??

Yes.

I thought the issue at hand was left vs. right politics.

 

[geauxtohell]

Because the glorious conservatives got us into a useless fucking war in Iraq, and I'll never forget or forgive it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The CIA defines anarchy as a lawless condition in the absence of government. The Innuendo is clear.

The following are the left-leaning liberal welfare democracies in the world:

Australia, Austria, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Finland, France, Germany, New Zealand, Norway, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom, United States,Uruguay.

Conservative to Ronald Reagan, anyone recalls, is pro-Social Security, and not for giving all the money to the Wall Street Bankers and Brokers who caused the mess in the first place.

China, Chile, Albana, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaraugua, Bolivia, and others tend to socialist or communist governments. Sweden is also thought Socialist.

All in common, they tend to be advanced as opposed to the right wing, free-market types on nations such as Haiti, or anything in East Africa. China seems to have the more superior model of a developing nation. The population of earth, in fact, more readily thought socialist, if at all developed. The nations across North Africa fit in.

And so, Anyone sees what. . . .well

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Great Alaksan, Real Americans: Know enough to vote against Tea Party lunacy of Palin and Miller. Again, likely anyone sees. . . .Well!)

1. So, your response is based on various nations being more left-wing...let's begin by noting that the bottom has been falling out of left-leaning regimes...

"When the New Left emerged in the 1960s, something else was born that would mark American elites for decades thereafter: the notion that social-democratic Western Europe was far superior to the capitalist United States. For much of the American Left, Western Europe was nothing less than an abstract symbol of progressive utopia.

This rosy view was never accurate, of course. Europe’s socialized health care was blighted by outrageous (and sometimes deadly) waiting lists and rationing, to name just one example. To name another: Timbro, a Swedish think tank, found in 2004 that Sweden was poorer than all but five U.S. states and Denmark poorer than all but nine. But in recent years, something has happened to complicate the Left’s fanciful picture even further: Western European voters’ widespread reaction against social democracy.

... turn against the Left is economic. Western Europeans have long paid sky-high taxes for a social safety net that seems increasingly not worth the price. These taxes have slowed economic growth. Timbro’s Johnny Munkhammar noted in 2005 that Sweden, for instance, which in the first half of the twentieth century had the world’s second-highest growth rate, had since fallen to number 14, owing to enormous tax hikes. Government revenues in Western Europe go largely to support the unemployed, thus discouraging work.
Heirs to Fortuyn? by Bruce Bawer, City Journal Spring 2009


2. "...the Wall Street Bankers and Brokers who caused the mess ..."

Another left-wing excuse for the fact that Democrat FDR initiated Freddie and Fanny, Democrat Carter the CRA, and Democrat Clinton allowed HUD sec'y Cuomo to force political philosophy into economics.

"As Wallison and Calomiris note, the federal government for years had applied intense pressure to primary and secondary lenders to lower credit standards in mortgage underwriting. Lax standards meant more applicants approved for credit. And more borrowers would translate into a higher homeownership rate, something presumably in the national interest. House price appreciation would serve as collateral in the event of foreclosure. It was optimism gone wild."
http://townhall.com/columnists/Carl...icy_triggered_the_mortgage_meltdown/page/full

3. "right wing, free-market types on nations such as Haiti, or anything in East Africa."
Had I read this first, I would have know what kind of dolt you were.

4. "Marxism rested on the assumption that the condition of the working classes would grow ever worse under capitalism, that there would be but two classes: one small and rich, the other vast and increasingly impoverished, and revolution would be the anodyne that would result in the “common good.” But by the early 20th century, it was clear that this assumption was completely wrong! Under capitalism, the standard of living of all was improving: prices falling, incomes rising, health and sanitation improving, lengthening of life spans, diets becoming more varied, the new jobs created in industry paid more than most could make in agriculture, housing improved, and middle class industrialists and business owners displaced nobility and gentry as heroes."
From a speech by Rev. Robert A. Sirico, President, Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty.
Delivered at Hillsdale College, October 27, 2006
https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2007&month=05

 

[PoliticalChic]

It would be the best of all possible worlds if Liberals and Conservatives finally killed each other off and left America to the Independants.

Clearly you have no understanding of any of the terms you so cavalierly toss about, nor any insight into history or the importance to the future of this great nation of the dominance of liberal or conservative philosophies.

BTW, isn't that pic from the short film they show at Williamsburg?

I might have to rethink my presence on this forum. People seem to be more interested in throwing around personal attacks than talking about the issues.

I'll ignore your condescention and merely answer your question.

No. It's a picture of Stephen Dillane as Thomas Jefferson in the "John Adams" Mini-Series.

Thank you for the answer, and welcome to the board.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Harry S. Truman

 

[PoliticalChic]

Because the glorious conservatives got us into a useless fucking war in Iraq, and I'll never forget or forgive it.

And I can't begin to tell you how upset that makes me.

 

[Justin Buell]

Clearly you have no understanding of any of the terms you so cavalierly toss about, nor any insight into history or the importance to the future of this great nation of the dominance of liberal or conservative philosophies.

BTW, isn't that pic from the short film they show at Williamsburg?

I might have to rethink my presence on this forum. People seem to be more interested in throwing around personal attacks than talking about the issues.

I'll ignore your condescention and merely answer your question.

No. It's a picture of Stephen Dillane as Thomas Jefferson in the "John Adams" Mini-Series.

Thank you for the answer, and welcome to the board.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Harry S. Truman

I can take heat, but I'm never sure how to respond when someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

 

[geauxtohell]

Because the glorious conservatives got us into a useless fucking war in Iraq, and I'll never forget or forgive it.

And I can't begin to tell you how upset that makes me.

Then why are you still a rightie?

In my book, getting us into a war under false pretenses is the ultimate sin any leader of a country can do, and if a President with any shred of fucking dignity realized he had done it, he would resign, literally take a sword, walk to the rose garden, and fall on it.

But Bush was a rich kid, and rich kids seem to think there is never a consequence for the things they fuck up.

I guess Bush was smart enough to know that. It appears the rest of American has forgotten about Iraq.

I never will.

 

[Sunni Man]

I might have to rethink my presence on this forum. People seem to be more interested in throwing around personal attacks than talking about the issues.

I'll ignore your condescention and merely answer your question.

No. It's a picture of Stephen Dillane as Thomas Jefferson in the "John Adams" Mini-Series.

Thank you for the answer, and welcome to the board.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Harry S. Truman

I can take heat, but I'm never sure how to respond when someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

Son you either need to thicken your skin or flee for your life.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I might have to rethink my presence on this forum. People seem to be more interested in throwing around personal attacks than talking about the issues.

I'll ignore your condescention and merely answer your question.

No. It's a picture of Stephen Dillane as Thomas Jefferson in the "John Adams" Mini-Series.

Thank you for the answer, and welcome to the board.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Harry S. Truman

I can take heat, but I'm never sure how to respond when someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

Well, then, put your dinero where you put your dinner, and expain the philosophies of liberals and conservatives.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Because the glorious conservatives got us into a useless fucking war in Iraq, and I'll never forget or forgive it.

And I can't begin to tell you how upset that makes me.

Then why are you still a rightie?

In my book, getting us into a war under false pretenses is the ultimate sin any leader of a country can do, and if a President with any shred of fucking dignity realized he had done it, he would resign, literally take a sword, walk to the rose garden, and fall on it.

But Bush was a rich kid, and rich kids seem to think there is never a consequence for the things they fuck up.

I guess Bush was smart enough to know that. It appears the rest of American has forgotten about Iraq.

I never will.

I was being sarcastic...

"under false pretenses ..."
And those were?

 

[Charles_Main]

I am liberal due to the facts.

You dont posses them

You would not know a fact if it bit you on your ass sweet heart. You believe what the Lefty Blogasphere tells you to believe. You lie more than almost anyone on this board. Which of course make your name very Ironic.

 

[Justin Buell]

Thank you for the answer, and welcome to the board.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Harry S. Truman

I can take heat, but I'm never sure how to respond when someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

Son you either need to thicken your skin or flee for your life.

I came on here for stimulating political discourse, so far I see a lot of immaturity, but no deep insight or well thought out debates on the issues.

 

[geauxtohell]

And I can't begin to tell you how upset that makes me.

Then why are you still a rightie?

In my book, getting us into a war under false pretenses is the ultimate sin any leader of a country can do, and if a President with any shred of fucking dignity realized he had done it, he would resign, literally take a sword, walk to the rose garden, and fall on it.

But Bush was a rich kid, and rich kids seem to think there is never a consequence for the things they fuck up.

I guess Bush was smart enough to know that. It appears the rest of American has forgotten about Iraq.

I never will.

I was being sarcastic...

"under false pretenses ..."
And those were?

"Weapons Of Mass Destruction"

And if that doesn't work for you, then try:

"Iraq is a security threat to the United States"

This didn't turn into a mission to "spread democracy" until Bush realized he'd fucked up and needed to get re-elected.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Because the glorious conservatives got us into a useless fucking war in Iraq, and I'll never forget or forgive it.

And I can't begin to tell you how upset that makes me.

Then why are you still a rightie?

In my book, getting us into a war under false pretenses is the ultimate sin any leader of a country can do, and if a President with any shred of fucking dignity realized he had done it, he would resign, literally take a sword, walk to the rose garden, and fall on it.

But Bush was a rich kid, and rich kids seem to think there is never a consequence for the things they fuck up.

I guess Bush was smart enough to know that. It appears the rest of American has forgotten about Iraq.

I never will.

"Then why are you still a rightie?"

As a keystone of political philosophy, I hope your education has informed you that imperialism and war as an important aspect of national policy is left-wing, not right-wing, specifically the Progressive movement that has blossomed into modern liberalism.

You did know that...right?

 

[Justin Buell]

Thank you for the answer, and welcome to the board.


If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Harry S. Truman

I can take heat, but I'm never sure how to respond when someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

Well, then, put your dinero where you put your dinner, and expain the philosophies of liberals and conservatives.

The term "Liberal" and "Conservative" and their modern meanings are very recent, and are not tied to the majority of American history. Washington would have looked at you like you had lobsters crawling out of your ears if you had asked him if he was a conservative or a liberal.

In truth, I don't understand how either side manages to pick and choose their positions. For example... what does abortion have to do with gun rights? What does taxation have to do with the environment?

I know what Conservatives and Liberals believe, but I don't really know why they believe that way.

Why can't someone be pro-life and anti-war? An environmentalist and pro-second amendment.

There's no consistent logic in either philosophy, and both are responsible for destroying America. It's time for both philosophies to step down. You don't own political thought. You can't force people to have beliefs within your artificial spectrum of approved ideas.

Thinking beyond left and right, Republican and Democrat, Liberal and Conservative... it's the only way we will ever find a solution.

 

[geauxtohell]

And I can't begin to tell you how upset that makes me.

Then why are you still a rightie?

In my book, getting us into a war under false pretenses is the ultimate sin any leader of a country can do, and if a President with any shred of fucking dignity realized he had done it, he would resign, literally take a sword, walk to the rose garden, and fall on it.

But Bush was a rich kid, and rich kids seem to think there is never a consequence for the things they fuck up.

I guess Bush was smart enough to know that. It appears the rest of American has forgotten about Iraq.

I never will.

"Then why are you still a rightie?"

As a keystone of political philosophy, I hope your education has informed you that imperialism and war as an important aspect of national policy is left-wing, not right-wing, specifically the Progressive movement that has blossomed into modern liberalism.

You did know that...right?

And yet, it was the "conservatives" who contributed to the modern imperialism and are the main force behind the "New American Militarism" as Bacevich calls it.

So again, your point?

I suppose this is when you tell me Bush was really a liberal?

 

[kiwiman127]

How can any thoughtful citizen continue to support the liberal-progressive agenda?
What aspects of a failed philosophy do you not understand?

1. Shouldn’t we expect to see the cities that have had long-term Democrat governance as being utopias?
“Why is it that every Democratic run city has the highest crime rates??
For example, Detroit, whose mayor has been indicted on felony charges, hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1961. Buffalo has been even more stubborn. It started putting a Democrat in office back in 1954, and it hasn't stopped since.

Unfortunately, those two cities may be alone at the top of the poverty rate list, but they're not alone in their love for Democrats. Cincinnati, Ohio (third on the poverty rate list), hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1984. Cleveland, Ohio (fourth on the list), has been led by a Democrat since 1989. St. Louis, Missouri (sixth), hasn't had a Republican since 1949, Milwaukee, Wisconsin (eighth), since 1908, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (ninth), since 1952 and Newark, New Jersey (10th), since 1907.
Democrat run Cites lead the highest crime and murder rates

2. How about Democrat candidates running as Democrats, instead of pretending that they are conservatives? Why do they do that?

a. How bad is it for Democrats? They’re running against their own programs. ObamaCare, cap-n-tax, you name it, they’re against it now. This situation reached absurdity when five Democrat members of Congress ran ads claiming to have voted “no” on TARP. The five are Frank Kratovil (MD), Dina Titus (NV), Mary Jo Kilroy (OH), Kathy Dahlkemper (PA) and Glenn Nye (VA). The inconvenient truth is, according to FactCheck.org, “None of the five lawmakers who are running these ads is listed in the roll call vote. That’s because none of them had taken office yet.” Democrats Run From Their Record: epic fail obama Conservative Libertarian Outpost

b. If Democrats running against the White House prevail, the result could have a profound impact on the party's ability to govern. More than 30 Democrats with proven records of independence are campaigning on this theme, and scores more have started trying to do so late in the game. Even if the party maintains control of the House, it almost certainly won't have a functioning liberal majority, Democratic aides and lawmakers say. Tom Faranda's Folly: WSJ: Conservative Democrat Congressmen doing well in election run-up


c. …party officials in Washington can’t identify a single House member who’s running an ad boasting of a “yes” vote — despite the fact that 219 House Democrats voted in favor of final passage in March.
Read more: Democrats run away from health care - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

d. "The common wisdom holds that 'both parties' have to appeal to the extremes during the primary and then move to the center for the general election. To the contrary, both parties run for office as conservatives. Once they have fooled the voters and are safely in office, Republicans sometimes double-cross the voters. Democrats always do."
Coulter, 11-27-03


My answer…folks who want to be assured that there will be somebody (or something, i.e. government) that promises to take care of them support left-wing policies.

a. Liberal linguist Professor George Lakoff highlights this explanation, in his book “Don't Think of an Elephant!,” when he speaks of progressives framing policy in a ‘nurturing and cooperative” manner, as opposed to those mean conservatives who rely on a more competitive, ‘strict father’ rendition.

b. And even when said policies are exposed as failures, i.e., the Obama economic policies, our left-wing friends continue to argue in their favor. The answer is right here:

“The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong,” says political scientist Brendan Nyhan, the lead researcher on the Michigan study. The phenomenon — known as “backfire” — is “a natural defense mechanism to avoid that cognitive dissonance.”
How facts backfire - The Boston Globe


So, I understand you predicament, lefties... (but remember to pull the right lever in the privacy of the election booth.)

Only a wingnut would think that it's normal that a political party shouldn't have conservatives, moderates, and liberals. That's what's wrong with today's GOP. It is intolerant of anyone that isn't a far right loon.

-----------------------------
That is something I can agree to.
I am an Independent who in todays world would be classified "a moderate" but it always wasn't that way. People used described me as a conservative
I worked on the campaigns for Reagan, George HW and Bob Dole and contributed monies to GOP candidates for at least two decades but now I'm classified a RINO! I didn't change, my party changed.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Then why are you still a rightie?

In my book, getting us into a war under false pretenses is the ultimate sin any leader of a country can do, and if a President with any shred of fucking dignity realized he had done it, he would resign, literally take a sword, walk to the rose garden, and fall on it.

But Bush was a rich kid, and rich kids seem to think there is never a consequence for the things they fuck up.

I guess Bush was smart enough to know that. It appears the rest of American has forgotten about Iraq.

I never will.

I was being sarcastic...

"under false pretenses ..."
And those were?

"Weapons Of Mass Destruction"

And if that doesn't work for you, then try:

"Iraq is a security threat to the United States"

This didn't turn into a mission to "spread democracy" until Bush realized he'd fucked up and needed to get re-elected.

Every major intelligence agency believed that there were WMD's. Your choice is to decide where as President of the United States, he should have determined to defend the nation, or not.

You may decide that he was, ultimately, in error, as were other nations, and just about every pol in the country, or use the tried-and-true left wing propaganda bumper sticker that lives to suggest the worst of intentions to those with a 'R' next to their name.

Although scrubbed from Youtube, vids that show the Democrats all supporting the war that you claim was based on 'false pretenses' is available here:

Democrats Supported War on Iraq When It Suited Them – Video Evidence BUUUUURRRRNING HOT

 

[JBeukema]

1. Shouldn’t we expect to see the cities that have had long-term Democrat governance as being utopias?

The republicans were founded as a Liberal party; the Democrats were the conservative party.

That you associate either party with any real ideology proves you're an idiot. Both parties are all about power politics nowadays.

“Why is it that every Democratic run city has the highest crime rates??

2009 Data

Crime statistics are listed for U.S. cities with a population of 250,000 or greater. Rates are based on cases per 100,000 for all of calendar year 2009.
State City Population Total Violent crime Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter Forcible rape Robbery Aggravated assault Total Property crime Burglary Larceny-theft Motor vehicle theft Arson New Mexico Albuquerque 530,636 7.69 0.11 0.61 2.08 4.89 54.92 12.02 36.49 6.41 0.18

Coordinates:

35°06′39″N 106°36′36″W / 35.11083°N 106.61°W / 35.11083; -106.61
Country United States State New Mexico County Bernalillo County Founded 1706 as: Alburquerque Incorporated 1891 as: Albuquerque Government - Type Mayor-council government - Mayor Richard J. Berry

Richard J. Berry is the ninth mayor of Albuquerque, New Mexico and a former member of the New Mexico House of Representatives.

Richard J. Berry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




EPIC FAIL

2. How about Democrat candidates running as Democrats, instead of pretending that they are conservatives? Why do they do that?

Do Republicans run as republicans? Nope, they always call themselves Conservatives.

I see many Democrats now running as Democrats- specifically as Democrats, campaigning on aspects of HCR and other legislative accomplishments.


You're 0-2

c. …party officials in Washington can’t identify a single House member who’s running an ad boasting of a “yes” vote — despite the fact that 219 House Democrats voted in favor of final passage in March.

Rachel Maddow has covered several.

You're 0-3


Another PC rant... debunked

 

[kiwiman127]

i can take heat, but i'm never sure how to respond when someone accuses me of not knowing what i'm talking about.

well, then, put your dinero where you put your dinner, and expain the philosophies of liberals and conservatives.

the term "liberal" and "conservative" and their modern meanings are very recent, and are not tied to the majority of american history. Washington would have looked at you like you had lobsters crawling out of your ears if you had asked him if he was a conservative or a liberal.

In truth, i don't understand how either side manages to pick and choose their positions. For example... What does abortion have to do with gun rights? What does taxation have to do with the environment?

I know what conservatives and liberals believe, but i don't really know why they believe that way.

Why can't someone be pro-life and anti-war? An environmentalist and pro-second amendment.

There's no consistent logic in either philosophy, and both are responsible for destroying america. It's time for both philosophies to step down. You don't own political thought. You can't force people to have beliefs within your artificial spectrum of approved ideas.

Thinking beyond left and right, republican and democrat, liberal and conservative... It's the only way we will ever find a solution.

=========================
amen!