So having "principles" means I can never NOT vote GOP???

[Harry Dresden]

What effective policy has obama created that helped the economy? The recession ended in 2009 and things have yet to improve, so why would you support something that hasn't worked.

What Obama policy of ANY KIND have Pubs allowed to pass or compromised on since they got the filibuster in 2/2010? "No compromise, un-American Tea Party GOP" (TIME)...Total obstruction of PUB style health reform, jobs bills,budget cuts- anything he suggests...

Romneycare has proved O-care is a HUGE cost saver that will save Medicare/aid and make our economy competitive.- NOT reported on Fox etc etc etc.

I know, let's cut taxes on the bloated rich, destroy Medicare and health reform, raise taxes and fees on the nonrich, let corporate cheats run wild, cut aid to states and localities, raise military spending to more than the rest of the world combined, and worry about the debt in 2035. Idiocy.

Francis on the kool aid

Franco is like an annoying commercial on TV that gets played to much....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Any actual argument, Pubtroll? (the only kind...)

Any problem with the Romney plan?:

I know, let's cut taxes on the bloated rich, destroy Medicare and health reform, raise taxes and fees on the nonrich, let corporate cheats run wild, cut aid to states and localities, raise military spending to more than the rest of the world combined, and worry about the debt in 2035.

see what i mean.....somebody pull the plug.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's still fucking hilarious!

You're one of the few around here that makes me laugh for real, and you find that hilarious? lol come on bro.

The worst part of this whole thing is that people are calling this guy a far lefty just because he's got issues with the far right lately.

It's this absolute shit that really kills a good discussion.

At worst, the guy went from being a hardcore con to a skeptical libertarian.

Hardly a shift from one extreme to the other.

it is when he SAID he will be voting a straight Democrat ticket.....

 

[hipeter924]

@The OP: Then vote for an independent, and quit moaning...if I could vote in the US I wouldn't vote.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Just goes to show that if a republican even expresses a moderate position he is suddenly a traitorous far left psycho and instant pariah.

is it moderate to SAY you will be voting a straight Democratic ticket?....thats not Moderate....voting for someone like Dean or chris or Franco aint Moderate....

 

[Charles_Main]

No, but if your principles are liberty, free minds and free markets, then abandoning the GOP to go vote for the party that is the near antithesis of those values is beyond ludicrous.

I tossed the GOP overboard in 1995, but there was no way in hell I was going to empower dick nosed tyrants like Bubba Clintoon, Dick Gephart and Tom Daschle as any sort of principled move.

You, my friend, have fallen for the false dichotomy sophistry is the Heglian dialectic.

Dialectic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hope you enjoy your chains.

Well, depends on who you ask regarding what is "freedom".

I disagree with abortion, but should we be free to do it? Many on the right dont think so.

I 100% believe in the freedom to smoke weed, although I've never used it. It's less harmful than booze and tobacco. Many on the right want to keep it illegal, many on the left want it legal.

I also believe in allowing gay marriage. The right obviously does not.


The left has advocated gun control, which I dont like. BUT, they are not acting on it. At least openly.

You sound like you fit the best with libertarians, so why not just join in and help further the cause? It's catching on

There is a Big Problem with that, Believe I have been there and done that. What will end up happening if a good chunk of People do that, is the guy least like a Libertarian will win. Inevitably the People crossing over to Vote Libertarian were probably a Republican vote if they had not done it. So it's taking Votes from the GOP and helping Obama win.

Now, I would love to see a Libertarian win, but I am not about to vote for one, I know full well has 0 chance of winning just on Principle so to speak, when I know know full well doing so helps Obama win.

Out of PRINCIPLE I can not allow that.

lol

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Bucs went over to Fluff Obama, best wishes to him!

I love love love that Hillary told Obama to stuff the VP offer.

Excellent choice Bucs. First class!

 

[francoHFW]

Just goes to show that if a republican even expresses a moderate position he is suddenly a traitorous far left psycho and instant pariah.

is it moderate to SAY you will be voting a straight Democratic ticket?....thats not Moderate....voting for someone like Dean or chris or Franco aint Moderate....

You're a brainwashed Pubtroll and couldn't see the pragmatic center with a telescope.
Functional moron.


LilOlLady
Registered User
Member #19187 Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 4,974
Thanks: 0
Thanked 606 Times in 497 Posts
Rep Power: 32



ObamaCare does not reduce anyone’s Medicare benefits, and it’s dishonest to say it does

The Medicare savings in ObamaCare come in three roughly-equal parts. About 35% of the savings comes from paying lower reimbursements to hospitals, which accepted this deal because they know they will have a lot more insured customers who will make up for any loss in profits. About 30% of the savings came from tightening up the private insurance known as Medicare Advantage.

And the remaining 35% of savings comes from an assortment of changes, including less compensatory money for hospitals who treat a high level of the uninsured (because there will be a lot fewer uninsured people soon).

In other words, the Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act made Medicare a lot more efficient, but it didn’t do anything to reduce anyone’s Medicare benefits.
ObamaCare does not reduce anyone’s Medicare benefits, and it’s dishonest to say it does – Applesauce - Rockford, IL - Rockford Register Star

ty

 

[auditor0007]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

Unfortunately I found trying to change or even get anyone to listen to reason within the Republican Party has just become futile, so I moved. It's not that I want bigger government and increased spending, but I figure I can find more reasonable people in the Democratic Party.

 

[Paulie]

so libertarians ar "far left" now?

No, he's not a libertarian according to skook. Even though when the guy lists his positions on issues it's clear as day.

The thing is that Libertarians should know who the real threat to the Republic is by now. This stinks like low tide.

He doesn't know he's a libertarian yet. He's still in shock from realizing he's not a mainstream republican anymore. What he thinks he is right now isn't what's significant, because he's still confused. What's important is paying attention to what positions he's aligning himself with, and it sounds like libertarian to me. He's for legal marijuana even though he doesn't smoke, he has an opinion against abortion but doesn't impose will on it, he has a strong affinity for the importance of local politics. His core beliefs are still conservative in nature but he's just not a RINO anymore.

 

[Paulie]

Well, depends on who you ask regarding what is "freedom".

I disagree with abortion, but should we be free to do it? Many on the right dont think so.

I 100% believe in the freedom to smoke weed, although I've never used it. It's less harmful than booze and tobacco. Many on the right want to keep it illegal, many on the left want it legal.

I also believe in allowing gay marriage. The right obviously does not.


The left has advocated gun control, which I dont like. BUT, they are not acting on it. At least openly.

You sound like you fit the best with libertarians, so why not just join in and help further the cause? It's catching on

There is a Big Problem with that, Believe I have been there and done that. What will end up happening if a good chunk of People do that, is the guy least like a Libertarian will win. Inevitably the People crossing over to Vote Libertarian were probably a Republican vote if they had not done it. So it's taking Votes from the GOP and helping Obama win.

Now, I would love to see a Libertarian win, but I am not about to vote for one, I know full well has 0 chance of winning just on Principle so to speak, when I know know full well doing so helps Obama win.

Out of PRINCIPLE I can not allow that.

lol

Yes I know all about your convoluted, misguided principles. But you aint a libertarian bro, you're a typical neocon...war is the health of the state. Tell me all about how you'd LOOOOOOVE to vote for a libertarian while you're calling in the nuke strike team to take out Iran

 

[bucs90]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

Unfortunately I found trying to change or even get anyone to listen to reason within the Republican Party has just become futile, so I moved. It's not that I want bigger government and increased spending, but I figure I can find more reasonable people in the Democratic Party.

And thats exactly where I find myself. I dont all of a sudden love Obama. Or hate America. I just hate that Tea Party politicians have called open season on cops and firemen. There are other ways. FAR MORE wasteful things that they are refusing to cut first. And add to that a few other issues that the far right has just left me on.

Voting Democrat will be frustrating and likely to disappoint me, as all politicians will. There are too many radical leftists also. But....the moderate Dems represent me more than any other candidate right now since there are no legitimate 3rd party guys.

 

[bucs90]

No, he's not a libertarian according to skook. Even though when the guy lists his positions on issues it's clear as day.

The thing is that Libertarians should know who the real threat to the Republic is by now. This stinks like low tide.

He doesn't know he's a libertarian yet. He's still in shock from realizing he's not a mainstream republican anymore. What he thinks he is right now isn't what's significant, because he's still confused. What's important is paying attention to what positions he's aligning himself with, and it sounds like libertarian to me. He's for legal marijuana even though he doesn't smoke, he has an opinion against abortion but doesn't impose will on it, he has a strong affinity for the importance of local politics. His core beliefs are still conservative in nature but he's just not a RINO anymore.

Thats pretty close to accurate. Although I wouldn't say I'm "confused" as much as just pissed off a bit, disappointed a lot, and just open to changing my vote now.

And it's true. The far right is still fighting tooth and nail on two issues that are just plain fucking stupid: Keeping weed and gay marriage illegal. Im neither gay, or a weed smoker. But will all the issues we have today, the fact that they'll still fight that hard against those is plain old country dumb. We're bombing too many shithole countries and getting almost nothing in return. And I'm sick of the Tea Party labeling all govt and all govt employees as evil leeches on society, including cops and firemen.

 

[Truthmatters]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

Buc your problem was you said you were going from Straight Republican ticket to straight Democrat ticket....how many people on either side do that just like that?.....that's telling me you don't give a shit what the Democrat may represent .....and he might be just as bad as those Republicans you don't like.....when i left the Democrats in the middle nineties because assholes like Dean and Chris were taking over....i still voted for the Democrats i felt were still "Democrats"....i voted Clinton over Bush and the old guy Dole.....now 15 years later i cant stand both parties and just about every politician in them.....save yourself the frustration of bitching about the same shit next year that your bitching about now and vote for someone who wont follow the same old tired script....vote 3rd party.....like you said ....being a robot is hardly principled.....and people who blindly follow the Democrats are just as much of a robot as are those who blindly follow the Republicans....and we see them here all the time......

Your problem is the facts.


the democratic party changes to follow the facts.

We do not follow blindly hense the old phrase "I dont belong to any organized party Im a democrat."


FACTS are the friends of democrats.

the republican party has Become ( there was a time when republicans did follow the facts) the party of anti sceince, anti education, anti intellectual, anti history, anti democracy, anti anything but tax cuts.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Just goes to show that if a republican even expresses a moderate position he is suddenly a traitorous far left psycho and instant pariah.

is it moderate to SAY you will be voting a straight Democratic ticket?....thats not Moderate....voting for someone like Dean or chris or Franco aint Moderate....

You're a brainwashed Pubtroll and couldn't see the pragmatic center with a telescope.
Functional moron.


LilOlLady
Registered User
Member #19187 Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 4,974
Thanks: 0
Thanked 606 Times in 497 Posts
Rep Power: 32



ObamaCare does not reduce anyone’s Medicare benefits, and it’s dishonest to say it does

The Medicare savings in ObamaCare come in three roughly-equal parts. About 35% of the savings comes from paying lower reimbursements to hospitals, which accepted this deal because they know they will have a lot more insured customers who will make up for any loss in profits. About 30% of the savings came from tightening up the private insurance known as Medicare Advantage.

And the remaining 35% of savings comes from an assortment of changes, including less compensatory money for hospitals who treat a high level of the uninsured (because there will be a lot fewer uninsured people soon).

In other words, the Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act made Medicare a lot more efficient, but it didn’t do anything to reduce anyone’s Medicare benefits.
ObamaCare does not reduce anyone’s Medicare benefits, and it’s dishonest to say it does – Applesauce - Rockford, IL - Rockford Register Star

ty

Frankie?......you refering to me or Lilo Lady?.....learn how to post buddy....

 

[bucs90]

the republican party has Become ( there was a time when republicans did follow the facts) the party of anti sceince, anti education, anti intellectual, anti history, anti democracy, anti anything but tax cuts.

Never thought I'd agree with this..........but, I'd be lying if I said I didn't. That party is bordering on outright anti-teacher, anti-cop, anti-firemen mentality. Just because they happen to fall under the umbrella of "Evil gubermint worker".

 

[Harry Dresden]

Saw the trend of responses to me this week. Apparantely, the GOP gives a standard issue set of opinions. Issued to every right winger, from which he or she will never falter. Never question. Never EVER publicly denounce. That no matter what happens in politics, if it is being done or suggested by a GOP/Tea Party candidate, one must agree with it or silently shut the fuck up. And God forbid entertain the idea of making these TP candidates EARN my vote....or if not....vote against them.

My principles are fairly simple. Politicians are elected representatives. Root word REPRESENT.

People hammer them all the time for flip flopping. Saying one thing one day, then doing another. WHY? If their job is to be a sole voice of the whole, what if the whole tends to change their minds? What if the mayor of Anytown, USA represents his people who want a smoking ban. And he says he supports it. Then, over a couple years, over 50% of the citizens in that town change their mind. HIS job is to represent that view of the people.


So, is it possible that a candidate or movement, like the Tea Party, at one point represented MY views? Yes. And is it possible that the movement or it's candidates, over a few years, evolved and it's views and stands became less and less a mirror of mine? Yes.

I've changed a bit. So has the GOP, Tea Party and right wing in general.

My principles are NOT that I'll vote for the Red Team no matter what. YOU should also not allow yourself to just be issued a set of morals by a party, and follow them no matter what. If you find that your party or voting tendency no longer fits what you believe in, vote for what does, or vote in protest against it to send a message.

But being a robot is hardly principled.

Unfortunately I found trying to change or even get anyone to listen to reason within the Republican Party has just become futile, so I moved. It's not that I want bigger government and increased spending, but I figure I can find more reasonable people in the Democratic Party.

yea i hear ya....i found that out here with many of the Democrats out here.....its like talking to Franco or Dean all day long....

 

[Paulie]

The thing is that Libertarians should know who the real threat to the Republic is by now. This stinks like low tide.

He doesn't know he's a libertarian yet. He's still in shock from realizing he's not a mainstream republican anymore. What he thinks he is right now isn't what's significant, because he's still confused. What's important is paying attention to what positions he's aligning himself with, and it sounds like libertarian to me. He's for legal marijuana even though he doesn't smoke, he has an opinion against abortion but doesn't impose will on it, he has a strong affinity for the importance of local politics. His core beliefs are still conservative in nature but he's just not a RINO anymore.

Thats pretty close to accurate. Although I wouldn't say I'm "confused" as much as just pissed off a bit, disappointed a lot, and just open to changing my vote now.

And it's true. The far right is still fighting tooth and nail on two issues that are just plain fucking stupid: Keeping weed and gay marriage illegal. Im neither gay, or a weed smoker. But will all the issues we have today, the fact that they'll still fight that hard against those is plain old country dumb. We're bombing too many shithole countries and getting almost nothing in return. And I'm sick of the Tea Party labeling all govt and all govt employees as evil leeches on society, including cops and firemen.

I hear you bud. The only reason I'm still registered republican is because there's a lot of really GOOD conservatives at the local and state level that run republican. And I usually always have a good candidate to choose everytime my shitty ass congressman is up for reelection.

Don't vote dem though. You might identify with dem VOTERS, but you're going to find that you won't match up real well with dem policy makers at the end of the day.

 

[bucs90]

He doesn't know he's a libertarian yet. He's still in shock from realizing he's not a mainstream republican anymore. What he thinks he is right now isn't what's significant, because he's still confused. What's important is paying attention to what positions he's aligning himself with, and it sounds like libertarian to me. He's for legal marijuana even though he doesn't smoke, he has an opinion against abortion but doesn't impose will on it, he has a strong affinity for the importance of local politics. His core beliefs are still conservative in nature but he's just not a RINO anymore.

Thats pretty close to accurate. Although I wouldn't say I'm "confused" as much as just pissed off a bit, disappointed a lot, and just open to changing my vote now.

And it's true. The far right is still fighting tooth and nail on two issues that are just plain fucking stupid: Keeping weed and gay marriage illegal. Im neither gay, or a weed smoker. But will all the issues we have today, the fact that they'll still fight that hard against those is plain old country dumb. We're bombing too many shithole countries and getting almost nothing in return. And I'm sick of the Tea Party labeling all govt and all govt employees as evil leeches on society, including cops and firemen.

I hear you bud. The only reason I'm still registered republican is because there's a lot of really GOOD conservatives at the local and state level that run republican. And I usually always have a good candidate to choose everytime my shitty ass congressman is up for reelection.

Don't vote dem though. You might identify with dem VOTERS, but you're going to find that you won't match up real well with dem policy makers at the end of the day.

Yeah, we'll see. I know for certain though that the Tea Party has driven me away from the GOP for this 2012 election cycle, and I refuse to just not vote, so I dont have much choice. Maybe 2014 will be better, but I doubt it.

Or maybe the Mayans were right, and this shit will all be over on 12-21-2012!!! I mean...would it be that bad of a thing?

 

[Truthmatters]

Never thought I'd agree with this..........but, I'd be lying if I said I didn't. That party is bordering on outright anti-teacher, anti-cop, anti-firemen mentality. Just because they happen to fall under the umbrella of "Evil gubermint worker".

They were once a proud party and I likely would have been a republican.

in the last thirty years or so since Ike they have become the corporate party and there is no getting arround it.

they just get worse every year and more blatent about it.


You have dont the right thing