So democrats do in fact advocate socialism

[Big Fitz]

No, you name one that he embraces, asswipe.

Here's is Marx's program:

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants [those who try to escape the country] and rebels.

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.​

What parts do "liberals" disagree with?

Taxes are communist?



Really?

progressive taxes.

 

[bripat9643]

Taxes are communist?



Really?

What part of heavy progressive or graduated income tax didn't you understand? Did you imagine he was talking about a sales tax?

 

[Moonglow]

It is amazing to here people equate Obama's tax plan with socialism. Such arguments reflect an ignorance of fact and history. The American tax system has been progressive for a long time. Also, Obama's tax plan is not nearly as progressive (or socialistic as some RWs would say) as Bill Clinton's or Ronald Reagans. Indeed, under Reagan, we had a 50% top marginal rate. Unfortunately, the MSM never takes the time to address the charges and counter-charges regarding tax plans with fact. So, here's my effort to introduce some fact into the tax debate:

I got my information from the following websites:

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411693_Candi...

Our current maginal tax rates for 2008 are as follows:

10%
15%
25%
28%
33%
35%


Obama proposes the following marhinal tax rates:

10%
15%
25%
28%
36%
39.6%

 

[Oddball]

define heavy progressive or graduated income tax

United States Code: Title 26,TITLE 26—INTERNAL REVENUE CODE | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[IndependntLogic]

I have plenty of Dem friends. Now if you're not actually looking for debate rebuttals etc...(I got that feeling after you bailed from your last thread), then perhaps we might discuss this.
I would first ask you to define socialism, as - especially on the net - there seems to be a wide range of definitions. Would this be what your are referring to?:

An economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned. Characteristics of a socialist economy include the complete elimination of privately owned enterprises.

If so, I can assure you that neither of us will find a socialist on this board and very few in America. If this is not what you are referring to, please clarify. Depending on your definition, you may actually be correct.

I have posted on European boards, consistently they have mocked the ignorance the American version of "socialist" and they know true socialism. Some people here, have been suckered by their talking head entertainer's deliberate attempts at misinformation.

No, thats called pseudo-capitalism - not socialism... Besides, its severely failing now in Europe too.

You're delusional and ignorant.

Give me one example where socialism has been successful for an extended period of time which a) has not gone moonbat authoritarian/totalitarian and b) has a population over 15,000,000.

Dude, you're laughably ignorant! No seriously, and I mean this in the nicest possible way. I love that you think others feel snug!
Now I'm not going to say who, but only a stupid little coward would make a generalization about 40% of the US and then when others call them on it, Cut & Run from their own thread! Geez, run away from the big kids on the playground a lot did you? It's okay Nicky. All good.
So now you start another thread because you got your butt kicked so bad on the first one, that people were laughing at you.
Again, you're asked for the simplest of details. Like say for instance "What do mean by socialist?"
What do you do? Dodge, change the subject, respond to other posts, sling a few insults - all the very finest stuff of those who don't know wtf they're talking about. Laughable.
But you DID use the phrase "moonbat". So um, that was nice.
If nothing else, you're good for laughs. Lots of them....

 

[IndependntLogic]

If you're right, I just handed you the hammer to beat my brains in with. Name a plank of the Communist Manifesto that he opposes. I like how you keep insulting my intelligence then can't just answer simple questions, particularly questions like this that if you're right you can bludgeon me with.

Obama does not believe that all private enterprise should be eliminated. That's one. Want another?

Wait. I could be wrong! Was there somewhere where he said "I want to eliminate all small businesses, all medium businesses, all large businesses!"

Oh wait! I get it! You're going to show me where he said "Now these auto companies / banks are never going to pay us back because we don't want them to. We want to own them."

I mean look, we independents don't like Obama. But this sort of foolishness is basically a Tea Party among the children who all agree with themselves. No one else buys it and reason / facts quickly dispel it.

That's why I gave you a simple test, name a plank of the Communist Manifesto he opposes. You're an independent who gave a typical liberal answer to the question. It's ridiculous!!!!

The Communist manifesto doesn't say all private business will be eliminated. Obama advocates ever tightening controls through mandates, regulation and taxes. You don't have to own it to control it. And he's never done anything that says he actually wants it to be independent, he just hasn't said he doesn't. While his policies are an ever tightening grip. Obamacare being the best example of that. A program that says sure, you can keep your current policy. Obamacare doesn't require employers to stop offering healthcare, it puts them in a position that they will be forced to drop it because a for profit company can't compete with a competitor that can force it's customers to pay more at the point of a gun like government can.

What better measure of a communist then the communist manifesto? That would be...by definition. So stop being a liberal and answer the question. What plank of the communist manifesto does he oppose?

Sorry Comrade, I'm not a communist like you so I just don't have your expertise. But other than ObamaCare, which sucks and (hopefully) will be repealed, what are these policies that have "tightened the grip" (oooh scawy!) on business? I find your hysterics pretty funny.
It's not because I think Obama is a good president. I don't. It's because other than the pos Obamacare, he hasn't done a danm thing. Well, okay. He repealed DADT - which as we know, pissed off the American Nazi Party. But as far as his magical powers to control business without actually passing any legislation, well you'll pardon me if I don a hat and join the Little Club of Panic...

 

[IndependntLogic]

The Soviets were a Socialist state trying to achieve Communism

liberalism=socialism=communism=marxism=progressivism=fascism

All that differs is the logistics and terminology, but the end result is the same.

No the economic model in which reflects on socioeconomic environment.

Once again libfucks are dumb motherfuckers.

I love your "eh" version of socialism - it insults my intelligence.

LOL! Again, love that your intelligence is insulted after using the sentence:
"No the economic model in which reflects on socioeconomic environment."

I'm wondering if your problem with our words and grammar might be..... wait! You're an illegal alien, aren't you!
Don't worry, I won't tell!

Well I admire your attempt to learn our language and want to personally welcome you to our country. Bien Venidos!

 

[Contumacious]

It appears to point in that direction..

So does the Constitution.

Preamble Note
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished. Ratified 12/6/1865. History

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Amendment 27 - Limiting Changes to Congressional Pay. Ratified 5/7/1992. History

No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.

Damn..that's alot of Socialism!

Where did it say "Congress shall have the authority to own the means of production"?

.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

Health care costs doubled under Booosh and were ruining the economy. Health Reform will finally get costs regulated, with much more to come. After 25 years of Pub Propaganda machine, 60 % of the USA no longer know what they're talking about. Bring back the fairness doctrine, along with intelligent debate- this is a disaster...
Socialism is ALWAYS democratic and helps the people against the power of greedy corporations and elitist mega rich: regs on wages, work conditions, scams, etc. The USA has been socialistic for over 100 years...

 

[Neotrotsky]

Health care costs doubled under Booosh and were ruining the economy. Health Reform will finally get costs regulated, with much more to come. After 25 years of Pub Propaganda machine, 60 % of the USA no longer know what they're talking about. Bring back the fairness doctrine, along with intelligent debate- this is a disaster...
Socialism is ALWAYS democratic and helps the people against the power of greedy corporations and elitist mega rich: regs on wages, work conditions, scams, etc. The USA has been socialistic for over 100 years...

Socialism is always Democratic?


Why crazy left wing website did you get that from
Are you really that dull-witted?

I take that back, you are

Read a little, you won't sound so much like, like,,, you


The Black Book of Communism



They must have Democratically decided to kill themselves for the
good of the state.

65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union[3]
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea


You do know that in a true Communist state there is NO gov't?
All these states above are socialists states

 

[IndependntLogic]

If you're right, I just handed you the hammer to beat my brains in with. Name a plank of the Communist Manifesto that he opposes. I like how you keep insulting my intelligence then can't just answer simple questions, particularly questions like this that if you're right you can bludgeon me with.

No, you name one that he embraces, asswipe.

Here's is Marx's program:

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

I don't know any LibDems who agree with or want this. Are there any here?

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Well um okay dokey. So I guess what? Abe Lincoln was a Liberal? Because we've had those since his time (I think it was Lincoln).

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Don't know any LibDems behind this. Are there any here?

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants [those who try to escape the country] and rebels.

Don't know any LibDems behind this. Are there any here?

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Funny this. I hated Bush's and Obama's bailouts but it seems we're being repaid. In any case, anyone saying there is a govt monopoly is in hysterics. Haven't heard any libs say they want to eliminate private banks though. Has someone here said they do?.

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

Don't know any LibDems behind this. Are there any here?

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Don't know any LibDems behind this. Are there any here?

8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Don't know any LibDems behind this. Are there any here?

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

Don't know any LibDems behind this. Are there any here?

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.​

What parts do "liberals" disagree with?

Well, from what you've written, I would say pretty much all of it excpet #10 - which I agree with, if I understand it correctly. Sure. I want public schools. And no, I don't want children working in factories.

This just seems like more of the hysterics. People are so easily manipulated in this country because both parties tell them what the OTHER side "is". Then they proceed to paint Liberals as "Communists" (back in the day) or now "Socialists", which is bunk. Just because some guy on tv says that Stephen Speilberg wants to give up his millions, make sure his kids can't inherit it or whatever, doesn't make it true. An guess what? OBama didn't invent the progressive tax.
This is about as credible as when Liberals say that Conservatives are going to force religion on their kids, hate science, all believe the Earth is 5,000 years old and so on.

However, if there are Liberals here who believe with the points listed above and want them as written, for our country, then please let me know. I've never seen or met one.

Hysterics sold by Politicians and Talking Heads.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So democrats do in fact advocate socialism

Was there ever any doubt?

 

[Neotrotsky]

So democrats do in fact advocate socialism

Was there ever any doubt?

Ouch!

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

Health care costs doubled under Booosh and were ruining the economy. Health Reform will finally get costs regulated, with much more to come. After 25 years of Pub Propaganda machine, 60 % of the USA no longer know what they're talking about. Bring back the fairness doctrine, along with intelligent debate- this is a disaster...
Socialism is ALWAYS democratic and helps the people against the power of greedy corporations and elitist mega rich: regs on wages, work conditions, scams, etc. The USA has been socialistic for over 100 years...

Socialism is always Democratic?


Why crazy left wing website did you get that from
Are you really that dull-witted?

I take that back, you are

Read a little, you won't sound so much like, like,,, you


The Black Book of Communism



They must have Democratically decided to kill themselves for the
good of the state.

65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union[3]
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea


You do know that in a true Communist state there is NO gov't?
All these states above are socialists states

World Book Encyclopedia, 1960

You don't know what socialism IS, like 60% of USA. Has to do with Cold War McCarthyism and now the Pub Propaganda Machine. Talk to ANYONE but Pub Dupes.

 

[Oddball]

World Book Encyclopedia, 1960

You don't know what socialism IS, like 60% of USA. Has to do with Cold War McCarthyism and now the Pub Propaganda Machine. Talk to ANYONE but Pub Dupes.

Just because America isn't as socialistic as a lot of European hell holes, doesn't mean that we're not headed down the same road.

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

This is typical. The dupes think socialism is communism, or "always leads to communism" (NEVER has...). They ask the intelligent, worldly Dem, are you a socialist? If they answer yes, it's oh you're a communist...-STUPID!

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

European hell holes? You're a fegging moron. But thanks for the boom and bust, all the fraud, the moronic wars, and ANOTHER Pub Great Depression....get a passport and visit, dumbazz...

 

[Neotrotsky]

World Book Encyclopedia, 1960

You don't know what socialism IS, like 60% of USA. Has to do with Cold War McCarthyism and now the Pub Propaganda Machine. Talk to ANYONE but Pub Dupes.

Just because America isn't as socialistic as a lot of European hell holes, doesn't mean that we're not headed down the same road.

Another Left, this guy who likes to think the Soviets were not socialist
too funny he does not even know what the USSR acronym stands for



The Left has always been apologists for the Soviets

Of course, the Left thinks they will get it right this time

 

[hellofromwarsaw]

Communists and fascists have said they were socialists. You believe ALL types of propaganda...

 

[Neotrotsky]

We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries,
with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance,
and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.