So are we better off today then we were 4 months ago?

[editec]

Does the motivation matter so long as everyone ultimately benefits?

Yes it does.

Because there is no "ultimate" final state in society, Jill.

There is only the state of the moment.

So, if those who are motivated with an abject indifference to outcomes on the rest of us, sooner or later their motivation will NOT be lead to such happy outcomes.

The above is actually the problem with devising a system which harnesses greed and indifference. Its benefical coutcome can also become a poison pill

While in the short run such attitudes might lead to happy outcomes, in the long run such attitudes inevitably become toxic to the society at large.

Perfectly rational individual self interest quite often leads to tragedies of the commons.

We are now witnessing that rightnow.

Thanks to the perfectly rational, completely legal, self interested motivation of the bankers and players who brought us to this current monetary depression.

Nobody did anything illegal, nobody did anything wrong.

But their combined actions, motivated by greed, lead us to a state where the economy is, for the vast majority of us, at least, in the crapper.

 

[jillian]

I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me that one doesn't need to be altruistic to have a mutually beneficial result.

I'm not referring to those instances where it becomes clear that at least one party to the transaction is being injured.

 

[Annie]

I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me that one doesn't need to be altruistic to have a mutually beneficial result.

I'm not referring to those instances where it becomes clear that at least one party to the transaction is being injured.

I must agree. For starters, what one person believes is 'good for all' maybe diametrically opposed to what another believes. President Obama seems to believe that giving to those who lack, while speechifying about some future responsibility is the way to go. Others sincerely think this is misguided.

 

[editec]

I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me that one doesn't need to be altruistic to have a mutually beneficial result.

No it doesn't, upon that we can both agree.

I'm not referring to those instances where it becomes clear that at least one party to the transaction is being injured.

Nor am I.

I'm actually referring to those instances where it eventually becomes clear that the commonweal is being injured.

I think we both understand that the road to hell can be paved with both selfless or selfish intentions.

But I was responding to the kneejerking prssumption we so often read here that harnessing greed will inevitably lead to good outcomes, as "the market knows best" school of thought advocates so often insists.

 

[editec]

I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me that one doesn't need to be altruistic to have a mutually beneficial result.

I'm not referring to those instances where it becomes clear that at least one party to the transaction is being injured.

I must agree. For starters, what one person believes is 'good for all' maybe diametrically opposed to what another believes.

Yup!

President Obama seems to believe that giving to those who lack, while speechifying about some future responsibility is the way to go. Others sincerely think this is misguided.

True. And he may very well be misguided, too.

Nobody rational presumes that they KNOW the future outcomes of the economy.

But Obama (ever PTOUS) has no choice but to respond to the events as they unfold.

Even choosing to do nothing is choosing to do something.

I am not thrilled with the Obama solution, either.

I simply respond to the people who presume to KNOW that what he is doing will be disasterous who were perfectly sanguine when everything that happened before he took office lead to the disaster he is now attempting to deal with.

Let's just say that I don't trust their judgement since their judgement has proven to be been so terribly wrong in the past.

 

[HUGGY]

Yeah, I'm doing fine now, no change though. But I am a bit more stressed than I use to be. Thinking about how the hell we are going to pay all that fucking cash back as a country.

Are you aware that the tarp money is being paid back with interest?

 

[007]

Just curious to know if anybody thinks we’re better off today then we were 4 months ago.

Sorry, but it's not better off "then," it's better off "THAN."

In any case, the answer is no.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm a US citizen by birth who works for a paycheck and my personal situation has greatly improved over the last 6 months, with the last 4 being especially good. I'm optimistic and looking for opportunities to invest in the next economy.

Imagine investing in the infrastructure construction that our parents and grandparents built in the 40's, 50's & 60's... Why don't we thank them by doing the same for our kids?

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

guess it depends who you are....if you are an illegal alien that has defaulted on your home loan car loan and credit card loans and you are a member of a union you may well be set for life......if you own the company that this guy works for you are probably screwed.....

as for me....nothing has changed .....

flat is the new up baby.........

I should neg rep you for depressing me, but you are right.

it is sad really.....

Boo fuckin' hoo.

I'm glad you two weren't around when the Interstate System needed to be built...

-Joe

 

[NOBama]

You never held a gun to their head, lol. You're just there to make a buck off of them. And you call ME an asshole?

That's all you've got?

What's your game plan anyway, to invest money to lose money or maybe buy REO's through real estate companies after they've been foreclosed on? Your a joke.

If I'm a joke, what do you call a guy who boasts about all the money he makes buying distressed properties from people who are losing everything? I understand that someone has to eventually buy those properties, but you were being quite obnoxious about it. Now you can go back to eating your big macs.

Hey asshole, I never boasted about anything and you’ve hinged your entire anti-capitalistic tirade on nothing more than my comment stating that: "Beyond that, there's opportunity all around us. You just have to look for it and the housing market would be a great place to start!".

My turn: Based on your comment “With a black man at the white house, I bet that the carpets are in better shape than they were 4 months ago.”. I surmise that you’re a black racist. I could give you a lecture about the condition of rugs after renting to people like you, black or white, but it’s not necessary, I’m sure you already know.

I challenge you to back up your bloviated vilifications by explaining to this board, in detail, how people who otherwise could not become home owners after being rejected by “financial institutions”, if it weren’t for the private sector willing to take on the risk of selling to them.

 

[Agnapostate]

anti-capitalistic tirade

The liberal is in fact able to strengthen capitalism through the use of government as an agent of macroeconomic stabilization and a means of maintaining the physical efficiency of the workforce.

 

[TofuDog]

Shit man, I didn't realize I was dealing with the second coming of MOTHER TERESA!!! Dude, you should go yell at the nominating committee for a fucking Nobel prize for your humanitarian work! Helping all those poor people who lost their house, it brings a fucking tear to my eye!
PS How much bread you make so far? Tons? You SO deserve it!

As for the carpet JOKE, I guess you didn't get it.