So A Troublemaker Is A Better Choice Than Someone Who Fixes Companys?

[Seawytch]

Bain and Romney are perfect central casting Hollywood for the "bad guy". They took companies with good paying jobs and closed them down, "restructured" them with fewer benefits, offshored them to other countries and laid off thousands of workers. Because of that, cardboard cutout Romney isn't going to get much traction in places where the only jobs to be had are McJobs like Bain now produces. It isn't going to give people out of work or afraid to be out of work much comfort when Romney touts his "job creation" success at low wage, no benefits jobs like Staples.

Companies like Bain are exactly why there is so much populist anger out there and that is going to be put in stark display in the next year.

 

[Care4all]

Allow me sir!!!!

IF you think that was BS, then you've NEVER worked for a corporation being taken over...

I have TWICE, and he was absolutely correct in what he says happens....so, I know it was just easier for you to say this newbie is lying....then to accept the truth...because it does happen, just as he says...the only thing he left out was that usually there is some severance pay involved that will get the long time employees by..... that were laid off, for a few months!!!! and he forgot to mention that those kept after the initial downsizing layoffs, end up doing all of their own workload and the workload of all of their fellow employees that were laid off.....with no pay increase for the extra productivity.

I's a jungle out there in the private sector.....yes, perhaps survival of the fittest for some......... or survival of "the who you know or are related to, crowd". for others....

And I am not saying these measures are not needed sometimes, but the way it is done is COLD AND CALCULATED, done by outsiders of the initial corp company, who have no idea of what you are really worth in what you have and can produce for the company....but they don't give a rats ass about that...they only have heads and departments to chop....

I've seen it done 2 times, and it is not pretty....nor a cake walk for the employees left to run the show....

But I have, no less then three times in two years, same company.

My 401k went wild

ahhhh, try not to invest in the company you work for with your 401 k!!!!

on one of the companies that i worked for that went in to chapter 11....i kept buying the company stock even when the company was in chaos....at a 15% discount that was offered to management....the stock was as low as $5 bucks a share....everyone kept telling me i was a fool....but i could see the Brand of the company having strength even down the road, (Reebok)....I held on to the stock for 4 years, even after i no longer worked for them....THEN A MIRACLE.....another corporation, a German corp I believe, came in and bought them out....(Adidas) and I was forced to sell my stock at something like $40 bucks a share at the point of takeover.....I made a killing....something like $36k off of the deal....

so, sometimes you can make money off of companies being downsized, IF you are wealthy enough to invest in them....

 

[NYcarbineer]

In the corporatist conservative war on the American worker, everyone knows someone who was a casualty. Practically everyone lives near someplace where there used to be a factory, plant, or mill where there used to be good paying jobs for hundreds of people in that area,

and now they're gone. Everyone knows someone who used to have a good job, who now works for much less, through no fault of their own.

It isn't hard to figure out which side of that war Romney has fought on.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Romney's tax plan will

1. balloon the deficit

2. Raise taxes on almost everyone making less than 50,000 a year

3. Cut taxes for almost everyone making more than 50,000 a year.

I'd like someone to tell me what that fixes. What will that make better, in the real world?

 

[Cuyo]

Is that Romney's line of work, fixing companies?

I don't think America needs quite that kind of 'fixing.'

 

[The Rabbi]

Bain and Romney are perfect central casting Hollywood for the "bad guy". They took companies with good paying jobs and closed them down, "restructured" them with fewer benefits, offshored them to other countries and laid off thousands of workers. Because of that, cardboard cutout Romney isn't going to get much traction in places where the only jobs to be had are McJobs like Bain now produces. It isn't going to give people out of work or afraid to be out of work much comfort when Romney touts his "job creation" success at low wage, no benefits jobs like Staples.

Companies like Bain are exactly why there is so much populist anger out there and that is going to be put in stark display in the next year.

ZThat's certainly the caricature the Obama campaign will let out. You of course, totally devoid of any ability to think independently, will parrot those lines like a good soldier.
The truth is those companies were likely doomed from the get go. Had they been healthy companies Bain never would have touched them. The alternative to restructuring was not continuing on but bankruptcy and dissolution. Would you rather have some employees continuing to receive a paycheck and benefits or no employee? Those are the only choices.
And that doesn't mention the companies Bain invested in that grew to become very large employers.

 

[Jarhead]

Bain and Romney are perfect central casting Hollywood for the "bad guy". They took companies with good paying jobs and closed them down, "restructured" them with fewer benefits, offshored them to other countries and laid off thousands of workers. Because of that, cardboard cutout Romney isn't going to get much traction in places where the only jobs to be had are McJobs like Bain now produces. It isn't going to give people out of work or afraid to be out of work much comfort when Romney touts his "job creation" success at low wage, no benefits jobs like Staples.

Companies like Bain are exactly why there is so much populist anger out there and that is going to be put in stark display in the next year.

Just so you understand...

Bain made their money buy doing the following....

They looked at really good ideas and determ,ined why those really good ideas were not runing a profit and why those really good ideas were going to go out of business.

They then made tha appropriate adjustments to allow those really good ideas make a profit.

Now..if it meant streamlining personnel...so be it for if it were not for Bain, ALL employees would have ultimately lost their jobs.

Seems you prefer throwing good money at bad business models and costing EVERYONE their jobs....and more money borrowed that cant be paid back when the company goes under.

Cant figure out why you seem that a good idea.

 

[Seawytch]

so, sometimes you can make money off of companies being downsized, IF you are wealthy enough to invest in them....

Isn't that the WHOLE point of companies like Bain, to make a whole lotta bucks for investors by downsizing and offshoring? Isn't that what much of the current populous anger in this country is about?

Because of the rising income inequality we are experiencing, fewer and fewer Americans are "wealthy" enough to invest in them.

 

[Jarhead]

In the corporatist conservative war on the American worker, everyone knows someone who was a casualty. Practically everyone lives near someplace where there used to be a factory, plant, or mill where there used to be good paying jobs for hundreds of people in that area,

and now they're gone. Everyone knows someone who used to have a good job, who now works for much less, through no fault of their own.

It isn't hard to figure out which side of that war Romney has fought on.

And without Bain or a company like Bain, those same companies would have borrowed more money to try to stay in business....likely lost that money and all would have lost their jobs and even MORE borrowed money would not be able to be paid back.

You like that? Why?

News flash....a failed business model is a failed business model. If it aint working and you dont get in a professional to figure out why, you can throw all the money you want at it and it still aint gonna work

 

[Jarhead]

so, sometimes you can make money off of companies being downsized, IF you are wealthy enough to invest in them....

Isn't that the WHOLE point of companies like Bain, to make a whole lotta bucks for investors by downsizing and offshoring? Isn't that what much of the current populous anger in this country is about?

Because of the rising income inequality we are experiencing, fewer and fewer Americans are "wealthy" enough to invest in them.

No...it is not.

The point of companies like Bain is to find good ideas that are not turning a profit...figure out why, make the adjustments and watch them flourish

 

[mascale]

Europe on "The Fix" must be a person, just like Corporations: According To Romney. At SEC they may already be asking, "What does he know, and When Did He Know it?"

Europe is in a fix(?) because of their failure to collect taxes, much like the Bush Tax Cuts were faulted by S&P, in the U. S. downgrade, as the failure of the U. S. to collect taxes.

The U. S. economy famously tanked. The Eurozone, famously, is expected to tank more mildly. Anyone knows that they variously have national health insurance plans. The doctors and nurses will do fine(?)! In the United States, of course,their numbers far exceed the number of unemployed: Apparently making them the one percent(?).

Venice Beach, in CA, understands about Free Stuff(?) Two(?)! We have Dolphins, now. They apparently have national health insurance, two(?). "Baruch Atah, Adonai. . . ." all day long is how their economy works. Then they descend upon the Orca terrorists, and kill them, and then do toilet(?)!

Governors of Texas understand them.

The Socialists of Europe will be doing accounting. The Republicans of America have already shown that accounting is not one of their skills. Texans understand them. That is called, "Free Market," wherein some people from Massachusetts are not able to even keep books. Then they go to Maine(?), having lost to the Clintons: Who did accounting.

"Crow, James Crow: Shaken, Not Stirred!"
(Many get real attention they deserve! Hmmm!)

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Bain and Romney are perfect central casting Hollywood for the "bad guy". They took companies with good paying jobs and closed them down, "restructured" them with fewer benefits, offshored them to other countries and laid off thousands of workers. Because of that, cardboard cutout Romney isn't going to get much traction in places where the only jobs to be had are McJobs like Bain now produces. It isn't going to give people out of work or afraid to be out of work much comfort when Romney touts his "job creation" success at low wage, no benefits jobs like Staples.

Companies like Bain are exactly why there is so much populist anger out there and that is going to be put in stark display in the next year.

Just so you understand...

Bain made their money buy doing the following....

They looked at really good ideas and determ,ined why those really good ideas were not runing a profit and why those really good ideas were going to go out of business.

They then made tha appropriate adjustments to allow those really good ideas make a profit.

Now..if it meant streamlining personnel...so be it for if it were not for Bain, ALL employees would have ultimately lost their jobs.

Seems you prefer throwing good money at bad business models and costing EVERYONE their jobs....and more money borrowed that cant be paid back when the company goes under.

Cant figure out why you seem that a good idea.

Because he doesn't understand what he's talking about. He's just repeating what he's told to repeat.

 

[NYcarbineer]

In the corporatist conservative war on the American worker, everyone knows someone who was a casualty. Practically everyone lives near someplace where there used to be a factory, plant, or mill where there used to be good paying jobs for hundreds of people in that area,

and now they're gone. Everyone knows someone who used to have a good job, who now works for much less, through no fault of their own.

It isn't hard to figure out which side of that war Romney has fought on.

And without Bain or a company like Bain, those same companies would have borrowed more money to try to stay in business....likely lost that money and all would have lost their jobs and even MORE borrowed money would not be able to be paid back.

You like that? Why?

News flash....a failed business model is a failed business model. If it aint working and you dont get in a professional to figure out why, you can throw all the money you want at it and it still aint gonna work

Getting rich off the de-industrialization/downsizing/working class destruction of America is like getting rich off war.

It's just wrong, somehow.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So A Troublemaker Is A Better Choice Than Someone Who Fixes Companys?

If you're referring to Obama and Romney I don't find either one of them a particularly good choice.

Compared to what?
WHen people say that they usually have in mind someone with the ability of Lyndon Johnson, the career of George HW Bush, the vision of Ronald Reagan and the modesty of George Washington.
Such a person doesnt exist.
This is what we have now, assuming Romney doesnt melt down on Super Tues or something.

Anyone would be better than Obama. Obama is the most partisan person ever to occupy the office. Bush could work with someone like Kennedy and come up with legislation. Obama can't work with anyone who doesn't fully support his ideas. He is obviously out of his depth. His economic team has looked like kindergartners playing musical chairs. He cannot administer and he cannot fill positions with anyone but Yes men.
Romney has some experience working across the aisle. He has business experience so he knows what a paycheck looks like and what it takes to produce one. Am I gung-ho Romney? Hell, no. He isn't a Republican outside of Mass. But he is what he is, and that is world's better than the undocumented worker currently in the White House.

Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate worthy of my vote. If he does not get the nomination then I'll be voting Libertarian just as I have the last two presidential elections.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

In the corporatist conservative war on the American worker, everyone knows someone who was a casualty. Practically everyone lives near someplace where there used to be a factory, plant, or mill where there used to be good paying jobs for hundreds of people in that area,

and now they're gone. Everyone knows someone who used to have a good job, who now works for much less, through no fault of their own.

It isn't hard to figure out which side of that war Romney has fought on.

And without Bain or a company like Bain, those same companies would have borrowed more money to try to stay in business....likely lost that money and all would have lost their jobs and even MORE borrowed money would not be able to be paid back.

You like that? Why?

News flash....a failed business model is a failed business model. If it aint working and you dont get in a professional to figure out why, you can throw all the money you want at it and it still aint gonna work

Getting rich off the de-industrialization/downsizing/working class destruction of America is like getting rich off war.

It's just wrong, somehow.

So you're on the side then, that nobody employed would be better than some people still having a job while Bain made some profit.

Fair enough. At least now we know where you stand.

 

[Seawytch]

Bain and Romney are perfect central casting Hollywood for the "bad guy". They took companies with good paying jobs and closed them down, "restructured" them with fewer benefits, offshored them to other countries and laid off thousands of workers. Because of that, cardboard cutout Romney isn't going to get much traction in places where the only jobs to be had are McJobs like Bain now produces. It isn't going to give people out of work or afraid to be out of work much comfort when Romney touts his "job creation" success at low wage, no benefits jobs like Staples.

Companies like Bain are exactly why there is so much populist anger out there and that is going to be put in stark display in the next year.

Just so you understand...

Bain made their money buy doing the following....

They looked at really good ideas and determ,ined why those really good ideas were not runing a profit and why those really good ideas were going to go out of business.

They then made tha appropriate adjustments to allow those really good ideas make a profit.

Now..if it meant streamlining personnel...so be it for if it were not for Bain, ALL employees would have ultimately lost their jobs.

Seems you prefer throwing good money at bad business models and costing EVERYONE their jobs....and more money borrowed that cant be paid back when the company goes under.

Cant figure out why you seem that a good idea.

To make MORE profit. The companies were already profitable or Bain would not have been able to secure loans based on the acquisition of those companies. Companies they then chopped up and sold off, making money for their investors. That is the reason they exist. Venture capitalists are not "job creators", they are money makers, period.

That isn't going to play well in towns that saw their steel mills and paper mills closed down because it's cheaper to import shit from overseas and these companies can make more MONEY.

 

[Jarhead]

In the corporatist conservative war on the American worker, everyone knows someone who was a casualty. Practically everyone lives near someplace where there used to be a factory, plant, or mill where there used to be good paying jobs for hundreds of people in that area,

and now they're gone. Everyone knows someone who used to have a good job, who now works for much less, through no fault of their own.

It isn't hard to figure out which side of that war Romney has fought on.

And without Bain or a company like Bain, those same companies would have borrowed more money to try to stay in business....likely lost that money and all would have lost their jobs and even MORE borrowed money would not be able to be paid back.

You like that? Why?

News flash....a failed business model is a failed business model. If it aint working and you dont get in a professional to figure out why, you can throw all the money you want at it and it still aint gonna work

Getting rich off the de-industrialization/downsizing/working class destruction of America is like getting rich off war.

It's just wrong, somehow.

Based on that..

Getting rich off of furnishing food is wrong....how dare those farmers and grocers make money off a necessity
Getting rich off of furnishing cloithes is wrong...how dare those designers, manufacturers and retialers make money off a necessity
Getting rich off of furnishing housing is wrong...how dare those builders, construction company, property owners and real estate brokers make money off a necessity.

I am curious...should Bain have the mindset that they will fix the company, save many of the jobs and not make any money at all? Should farmers be non profit? Real estate brokers? Manufacturers of winter coats?

Face it...you have an issue with capitalism....nothing more than that.

 

[Jarhead]

Bain and Romney are perfect central casting Hollywood for the "bad guy". They took companies with good paying jobs and closed them down, "restructured" them with fewer benefits, offshored them to other countries and laid off thousands of workers. Because of that, cardboard cutout Romney isn't going to get much traction in places where the only jobs to be had are McJobs like Bain now produces. It isn't going to give people out of work or afraid to be out of work much comfort when Romney touts his "job creation" success at low wage, no benefits jobs like Staples.

Companies like Bain are exactly why there is so much populist anger out there and that is going to be put in stark display in the next year.

Just so you understand...

Bain made their money buy doing the following....

They looked at really good ideas and determ,ined why those really good ideas were not runing a profit and why those really good ideas were going to go out of business.

They then made tha appropriate adjustments to allow those really good ideas make a profit.

Now..if it meant streamlining personnel...so be it for if it were not for Bain, ALL employees would have ultimately lost their jobs.

Seems you prefer throwing good money at bad business models and costing EVERYONE their jobs....and more money borrowed that cant be paid back when the company goes under.

Cant figure out why you seem that a good idea.

To make MORE profit. The companies were already profitable or Bain would not have been able to secure loans based on the acquisition of those companies. Companies they then chopped up and sold off, making money for their investors. That is the reason they exist. Venture capitalists are not "job creators", they are money makers, period.

That isn't going to play well in towns that saw their steel mills and paper mills closed down because it's cheaper to import shit from overseas and these companies can make more MONEY.

you are completely 100% wrong...

Bain is able to secure the necessary funding NOT BECUSE THE COMPANY they are asissting is profitable....but becuase Bain had the reputation with lenders to be able to turn a failing company around....it is a anticipated ROI that secures the fincnaing...

Look at it this way...why would a company give control to Bain if they are already making a nice profit?

You really need to understand what ventrue capitalism is all about and how financing is secured before you try to debate this topic.

 

[Seawytch]

Remember that Bain went beyond simple venture capitalism and delved into leveraged buyout realm. That is central casting Hollywood bad guy stuff...and Romney "I like to fire people" could win an Oscar for his role.

 

[Oldstyle]

And without Bain or a company like Bain, those same companies would have borrowed more money to try to stay in business....likely lost that money and all would have lost their jobs and even MORE borrowed money would not be able to be paid back.

You like that? Why?

News flash....a failed business model is a failed business model. If it aint working and you dont get in a professional to figure out why, you can throw all the money you want at it and it still aint gonna work

Getting rich off the de-industrialization/downsizing/working class destruction of America is like getting rich off war.

It's just wrong, somehow.

Based on that..

Getting rich off of furnishing food is wrong....how dare those farmers and grocers make money off a necessity
Getting rich off of furnishing cloithes is wrong...how dare those designers, manufacturers and retialers make money off a necessity
Getting rich off of furnishing housing is wrong...how dare those builders, construction company, property owners and real estate brokers make money off a necessity.

I am curious...should Bain have the mindset that they will fix the company, save many of the jobs and not make any money at all? Should farmers be non profit? Real estate brokers? Manufacturers of winter coats?

Face it...you have an issue with capitalism....nothing more than that.

He's OK with capitalism as long as the capitalist doesn't make a profit. Progressives view profit as taking advantage of someone.