Smoking Bans

[Pogo]

Your opinion.

But you still haven't told me how a privately owned business operated on private property allowing smoking would be of any danger to you.

I have explained multiple times

It is a privately held public conveyance. If they want to operate in our society they must conform to our rules

Public safety is one of those rules

Even if all the people who enter know the policies of the business?

Sorry but if you have no intention of patronizing a business that allows smoking then you and anyone else who does not want to be subjected to smoke does not have to enter.

You make it sound like you are forced to enter any bar or restaurant that might allow smoking. You are not.

You may be already in there, starting to enjoy your meal, when some assclown walks in and lights up next to you.

Did you think of that? Nooooooo......

 

[Pogo]

Just out of curiosity, Rightwinger and Pogo, did you guys do things like this as a teenager? Try to stay up to date and involved in the world of politics?

I sure didn't. For one thing there was no internet. Electricity wasn't even invented until I was 28. If you wanted to document something you either got a chisel and a rock, or you were just on your own to memorize it.

No I had no interest in politics. At your age I was interested in radios and building them and getting an amateur radio license. And I read a lot, but about topics that interested me, such as anthropology and history. And I started expanding my learning of musical instruments. Those, and simply surviving school and preparing to make my way in the world. Politics didn't really kick in (seriously) until about age 40.

I did smoke at 15, but I would never have puffed myself up, pun intended, to pass myself off as an expert on what the rules for people who could legally smoke should have been. At 15 I was in learn mode. And I've never left that mode. When you do that and declare you know everything, that's when you've stopped living.

(/offtopic)

PS
Ain't nothing wrong with chasing girls. The sticky part comes when one lets you catch her.

"You'll understand when you're older"

Well, I assume you were in Band then? I'm doing that this year.

Oh gods no, I loathe that kind of music. No offense, just not my cuppa. I'm not a "joiner" anyway and I hated school, so my musical study was always outside all of that. I think your question was about what we were doing personally at age 15 as far as curiosity and personal development.

Also, my parents would quite literally kill me if I smoked, so I will admit to not having experience personally smoking. I also read about what interests me: history, archaeology, politics, military theory, and religion. About girls, I chase "girl", as in singular. As to radios, I freely confess to being absolutely befuddled by technology.
About being on here and "debating", could the point not be made that by arguing my point against adults, I could learn from their arguments?
(/offtopic)

Absolutely. That's a good thing.

My point back there was simply that you're in no position to opine for yourself. For the same reason I wouldn't be qualified to opine on, say, Lithuanian needlepoint styles.

 

[Pogo]

Your opinion.

But you still haven't told me how a privately owned business operated on private property allowing smoking would be of any danger to you.

You keep wet-dreaming on Business Almighty rhetorical porn and leaving out the inconvenient part. That is, you still haven't 'splained what gives a smoker the right to force others to smoke who may not choose to. That's taking away their right to breathe.

Why are you against freedom of choice?

Patrons of a business that allows smoking would be aware of the fact. It is thus their choice to visit the establishment. It is their choice to enter a property that has smoke. By freely entering the smoke-filled premises, they fully accept the potential dangers involved.


As it has been said repeatedly: if Coffee Shop A allows smoking, visit Coffee Shop B. If there is no Coffee Shop B, then A has a monopoly and can do whatever they like.

Unfortunately life cannot be reduced to an illusion where everything is reduced to either a coffee shop or a cigar bar, as this thread has deteriorated to.

You're again too young to know this but there was a time you could smoke on a plane. I don't know if you've been on a plane but today you'll get kicked off the plane for lighting up. And yet, there was a time that if you didn't want to breathe smoke and needed to fly, hey you just had to take another airline that didn't allow smoking. Except there weren't any, so you were screwed.

Now smoking is banned on planes altogether. Was it wrong to do that?

 

[Pogo]

Yes they are. But if a business wants to allow patrons to smoke why shouldn't it be able to.

I don't know how many times or in how many forms I can ask the question.\

If a cigar bar were to get a permit to open that allowed the smoking on premises would you care?

Would you insist it be a nonsmoking cigar bar?

I see no difference allowing some bars to allow cigarette smoking

If as you say only 20% of people smoke then a few businesses allowing smoing will not affect your choices or your health.

More progress. We have gone from "it's a persons choice" as to what they do. And a persons choice to work where smoking is allowed.

Too if a business "were to get a permit".

Hummmm. Permits. Restrictions. Government. What happened to free choice?

Progress I tell you. Progress.

For some reason I get the idea that words like "restrictions" make you very happy.

And comments like that ^^ are exactly why I note that you literally don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Pogo]

No. Alcohol is perfectly legal in restaurants and bars and such, but you wish smoking to not be allowed in there. Correct?

You are not allowed to walk down the street drinking a beer. But you can walk down the street smoking a cig

Public drinking is discouraged in most municipalities

Speak for where you live... Not every place is ran by Liberals who want to control all aspects of a person's life.

And how exactly is forcing a non-smoker to ingest somebody else's sloppy second smoke NOT controlling his life?

Think about it.

 

[nitroz]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

 

[Pogo]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

I would too if such were possible. In practice they become "active smoking" and "passive smoking" sections.

 

[Politico]

Considering that many of the casinos are on Indian reservations & therefore basically above the law...unlikely. Also note: having been in several, there is ZERO smoke and zero odor even in the areas that DO allow smoking.

Where there is smoking, there is smoke and odor. A smoker may not notice it, but any non-smoker will. I can smell cigarette smoke fifty feet away outdoors.

Bullshit. News flash: I have been there! There is NO smoke and NO odor...whoever designed the ventilation system did a superb job.

Doesn't matter. That's never what it's been about.

 

[rightwinger]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

I would too if such were possible. In practice they become "active smoking" and "passive smoking" sections.

A smoking section is like having a peeing section in a pool

 

[CorvusRexus]

More progress. We have gone from "it's a persons choice" as to what they do. And a persons choice to work where smoking is allowed.

Too if a business "were to get a permit".

Hummmm. Permits. Restrictions. Government. What happened to free choice?

Progress I tell you. Progress.

For some reason I get the idea that words like "restrictions" make you very happy.

And comments like that ^^ are exactly why I note that you literally don't know what you're talking about.

Let me bold what gave me the idea.

I'm sorry, this is the internet and typing. Sarcasm (if it is indeed) is much harder to notice when you are reading black and white words on a forum.

 

[CorvusRexus]

If there is no coffee shop B and you're so sure there's a market for it...then OPEN ONE!

Exactly. If you don't like the ones out there, get off your rear and open one. We have this beautiful thing called freedom, and it gives you the ability to make as many smoke-free establishments as your liberal heart desires. If everybody hates smoking, like you seem to be convinced, then you will drain their business, bolster yours, and put them out of business. No more smoke-free businesses.


Gotta love "freedom" and "choice", don't ya?

If there is no coffee shop B and you're so sure there's a market for it...then OPEN ONE!

Oh pleeeease.

You two are actually suggesting that in order to be free of some goon blowing smoke in my face while I sip my coffee I have to gather capital, get a loan, seek a business permit, rent a storefront (or build one) and declare my own tree house. The mindlessness -- it hurts.

When you're answer is "go start your own coffee shop, go build your own car, go start your own airline, go find another job", you've already conceded that you have no argument.

Well, if starting a business is so darn difficult, shouldn't they with the initiative or funds to do so be acknowledged the ability to run it as they so desire?

 

[CorvusRexus]

I sure didn't. For one thing there was no internet. Electricity wasn't even invented until I was 28. If you wanted to document something you either got a chisel and a rock, or you were just on your own to memorize it.

No I had no interest in politics. At your age I was interested in radios and building them and getting an amateur radio license. And I read a lot, but about topics that interested me, such as anthropology and history. And I started expanding my learning of musical instruments. Those, and simply surviving school and preparing to make my way in the world. Politics didn't really kick in (seriously) until about age 40.

I did smoke at 15, but I would never have puffed myself up, pun intended, to pass myself off as an expert on what the rules for people who could legally smoke should have been. At 15 I was in learn mode. And I've never left that mode. When you do that and declare you know everything, that's when you've stopped living.

(/offtopic)

PS
Ain't nothing wrong with chasing girls. The sticky part comes when one lets you catch her.

"You'll understand when you're older"

Well, I assume you were in Band then? I'm doing that this year.

Oh gods no, I loathe that kind of music. No offense, just not my cuppa. I'm not a "joiner" anyway and I hated school, so my musical study was always outside all of that. I think your question was about what we were doing personally at age 15 as far as curiosity and personal development.

Also, my parents would quite literally kill me if I smoked, so I will admit to not having experience personally smoking. I also read about what interests me: history, archaeology, politics, military theory, and religion. About girls, I chase "girl", as in singular. As to radios, I freely confess to being absolutely befuddled by technology.
About being on here and "debating", could the point not be made that by arguing my point against adults, I could learn from their arguments?
(/offtopic)

Absolutely. That's a good thing.

My point back there was simply that you're in no position to opine for yourself. For the same reason I wouldn't be qualified to opine on, say, Lithuanian needlepoint styles.

I enjoy school only to the extent of being able to horribly derail my religion teachers with seemingly harmless counters that completely undermine the point they were just making about God's perfection. As to Band, I really don't like the music all that much; Metal and Hard Rock have always been my MO.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Exactly. If you don't like the ones out there, get off your rear and open one. We have this beautiful thing called freedom, and it gives you the ability to make as many smoke-free establishments as your liberal heart desires. If everybody hates smoking, like you seem to be convinced, then you will drain their business, bolster yours, and put them out of business. No more smoke-free businesses.


Gotta love "freedom" and "choice", don't ya?

If there is no coffee shop B and you're so sure there's a market for it...then OPEN ONE!

Oh pleeeease.

You two are actually suggesting that in order to be free of some goon blowing smoke in my face while I sip my coffee I have to gather capital, get a loan, seek a business permit, rent a storefront (or build one) and declare my own tree house. The mindlessness -- it hurts.

When you're answer is "go start your own coffee shop, go build your own car, go start your own airline, go find another job", you've already conceded that you have no argument.

Well, if starting a business is so darn difficult, shouldn't they with the initiative or funds to do so be acknowledged the ability to run it as they so desire?

No. I owned a café, and I had to deal with surprise inspections by the health department, who were determined to protect the public from one of my cooks failure to clean raw chicken off the chopping block before it became toxic, and to keep her from washing out her mop in the sink where she washed salad vegetables.

 

[CorvusRexus]

Oh pleeeease.

You two are actually suggesting that in order to be free of some goon blowing smoke in my face while I sip my coffee I have to gather capital, get a loan, seek a business permit, rent a storefront (or build one) and declare my own tree house. The mindlessness -- it hurts.

When you're answer is "go start your own coffee shop, go build your own car, go start your own airline, go find another job", you've already conceded that you have no argument.

Well, if starting a business is so darn difficult, shouldn't they with the initiative or funds to do so be acknowledged the ability to run it as they so desire?

No. I owned a café, and I had to deal with surprise inspections by the health department, who were determined to protect the public from one of my cooks failure to clean raw chicken off the chopping block before it became toxic, and to keep her from washing out her mop in the sink where she washed salad vegetables.

I know this will be perceived as splitting hairs- and it is, I won't deny it.

An employee failing to prepare food properly directly influencing negatively the health of the consumer in a way not already known to said consumer (so McDonalds is still legit), is much different than a patron following actions allowed in the business premises.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

I would too if such were possible. In practice they become "active smoking" and "passive smoking" sections.

No matter how many times you repeat this, it is still wrong!

 

[Pogo]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

I would too if such were possible. In practice they become "active smoking" and "passive smoking" sections.

No matter how many times you repeat this, it is still wrong!

Yeah it is wrong. That's why it's bullshit to shunt smokers over that way and declare what's left is a "no smoking area". As if smoke isn't a gas carried in the air, which does not read signs.

You develop "intelligent air" and you'll have a worthy idea. Until then...

 

[Jarlaxle]

You developing anything resembling intelligence would be progress!

 

[Noomi]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

Non smoking sections don't do jack. The smoke from the smoking sections wafts over and ruins your meal. Over here now, most restaurants and pubs have a no smoking policy. You want to smoke, you eat outside in the cold.

 

[rightwinger]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

Non smoking sections don't do jack. The smoke from the smoking sections wafts over and ruins your meal. Over here now, most restaurants and pubs have a no smoking policy. You want to smoke, you eat outside in the cold.

Smokers have no business sharing space with non-smokers

It is the smoker who is engaging in offensive behavior. All inconvenience should be borne by the smoker

 

[Noomi]

I'd support a smoking and non-smoking sections.

But growing up in Vegas, I remember coughing my lungs out as a kid when my family went to any buffet or out to eat at all.

Non smoking sections don't do jack. The smoke from the smoking sections wafts over and ruins your meal. Over here now, most restaurants and pubs have a no smoking policy. You want to smoke, you eat outside in the cold.

Smokers have no business sharing space with non-smokers

It is the smoker who is engaging in offensive behavior. All inconvenience should be borne by the smoker

I agree.