Small Families Subsidizing Large Families.

[Navy1960]

Do you know what the real sad part of this whole so called healthcare reform bill is, about the only thing it's going to reform is pre-exiting conditions in healthcare insurance choices. I can pretty much say with some bit of confidence that many people from those that wanted "single payer" to those who just said leave it alone are not to happy with this effort. In my mind real reform has to lower the cost of premiums, raise the standards of healthcare, and make helathcare insurance cheap enough for those who wish to purchase and use it. Seems like a simple enough concept, but when you add in all the K Street types in the mix that simple concept turns into 1900 plus pages of none of that stuff. I also thought that if Americans can pick up the phone in Arizona and shop for a TV in Maine (little shout ot the Care there ) then they should be able to do the same with healthcare insurance. Imagine an Arizona based company being faced with the prospect of competetion not only from the guy across 7th Ave. in Phoenix but the other 49 states, he or she will have to compete or die. So yes, a catastrophic Medicare plan would work well for a lot of people, especially those young indestructable types that represent a good number of those uninsured. If they can spend 50 bucks a month on itunes then it's not a lot to ask to spend 50 bucks a month for Catastrophic coverage. Many good ideas come from the real owners of this nation thats you and I and personally I think it's about time our employees started listening to us. (Congress)

 

[AVG-JOE]

Do you know what the real sad part of this whole so called healthcare reform bill is, about the only thing it's going to reform is pre-exiting conditions in healthcare insurance choices. I can pretty much say with some bit of confidence that many people from those that wanted "single payer" to those who just said leave it alone are not to happy with this effort. In my mind real reform has to lower the cost of premiums, raise the standards of healthcare, and make helathcare insurance cheap enough for those who wish to purchase and use it. Seems like a simple enough concept, but when you add in all the K Street types in the mix that simple concept turns into 1900 plus pages of none of that stuff. I also thought that if Americans can pick up the phone in Arizona and shop for a TV in Maine (little shout ot the Care there ) then they should be able to do the same with healthcare insurance. Imagine an Arizona based company being faced with the prospect of competetion not only from the guy across 7th Ave. in Phoenix but the other 49 states, he or she will have to compete or die. So yes, a catastrophic Medicare plan would work well for a lot of people, especially those young indestructable types that represent a good number of those uninsured. If they can spend 50 bucks a month on itunes then it's not a lot to ask to spend 50 bucks a month for Catastrophic coverage. Many good ideas come from the real owners of this nation thats you and I and personally I think it's about time our employees started listening to us. (Congress)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Navy1960 again.

Bummer!

 

[Emma]

Doesn't matter what the republicans or the dems think of a great idea like opening up Medicare to the general population for a fee.

It would be tantamount to a 'public option' and the insurance lobbyists holding leash on our representatives would not stand by for that kind of competition for the corporations holding their leashes.

Humph. Old Rocks and I proposed this months ago:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1442648-post88.html

Kudos to both of you too then, Emma.

It is a good idea that I'm certain has support beyond the 5 of us.

It's just too damn bad that the ears of congress are all gummed up with lobby-dollars.

House Dems want Medicare for everyone - TheHill.com

Rep. Anthony Weiner has been pushing this for some time now.

House Dems want Medicare for everyone - TheHill.com

 

[Meister]

*Shrug*

So opt out of the company plan and get a private plan.

That is simply not an option for most people, and the question is not about availability of options, it is about the fairness of charging a family with 1 little germ factory the same as a family with 8 of 'em running around.

Its not about fairness, its about the distribution of risk over a larger group.

Here's another one for you: If yer young, yer also subsidizing all those old farts that work for your company that have to go see a doctor more than you do, and for far more serious maladies.

It's just the way it works. Oh, and for the most part kids are actually lower risk than adults. Yes, they see the pediatrician more, but they have far far fewer health problems than the adults for the most part. Their doctor visits are mainly routine checkups/immunizations. This is why kids are relatively cheap to insure, and why group insurance doesn't really care how many you have.

Oh, and its always an option to opt out if you don't like the terms.

Hey watch your mouth, I resemble that remark.

 

[Meister]

Humph. Old Rocks and I proposed this months ago:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1442648-post88.html

Kudos to both of you too then, Emma.

It is a good idea that I'm certain has support beyond the 5 of us.

It's just too damn bad that the ears of congress are all gummed up with lobby-dollars.

House Dems want Medicare for everyone - TheHill.com

Rep. Anthony Weiner has been pushing this for some time now.

House Dems want Medicare for everyone - TheHill.com

That's what the senate version of the healthcare bill will
end up like in years to come. That's known as UHC, you may want it, but from my understanding most doctors don't. I have talked to several doctors, and the ones I talked to, they all agree on that. We could never afford that, Emma...not our government. Look at Medicare deficit....that would only get worse. You two have way too much faith in our government.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

small families subsidize larger families, and adults with no children subsidize the small families....with their property taxes for their children's schools and CHIPS insurance for their kids and probably for their insurance as well....where the cost of all children is spread out among ALL insurance policies.

Also, the healthy does subsidize the unhealthy...both those that are unhealthy due to genetic reasons or those who live a high risk lifestyle.

That is HOW insurance works....and WHY the additional 20 to 40 million americans FORCED in to having insurance, is a God Send, a GIFT HORSE for them....it spreads the risk greatly....
*unfortunately, there are no provisions in these bills that will force the insurance companies to pass along these savings.

Now this is where you aren't accepting reality....there WON'T BE any savings.

 

[uscitizen]

Right now, most health insurance premiums are structured in such a way that a family with 1 child pays the same as a family with 8 kids.

Is this fair?

Nope.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You do realize of course that these Insurance companies that everyone likes to cast as the villan are the same ones that are going to reap the benefits of any law "Forces" people to purchase healthcare Insurance, if it ever passes constitutional muster which is highly unlikely. I hope that people who support the current version of so called healthcare reform are not unde the mistaken impression that the Govt. actually runs their own Insurance program. Perhaps the biggest falacy in this bill are these mandates, because they pre-suppose that otherwise healthy individuals will be mandates into purcahsing Insurance to act as an offset for those comming into the system with pre-existing condition. However, the tax penalty for not purchasing the Insurance is so low, that in many cases it is a lot more simple for a young person to just pay the tax, which they won't anyway because, they won't meet the income requirements to actually pay taxes. That leaves an influx of individuals comming into the system with pre-existing condition with little or no offsets. Even the CBO has admitted as far back as 1992 when this idea was floated the first time around, that it will be an uphill challenge. Frankly, I cannot understand how anyone would every consider any of these bills currently offered as being anything close to reform.

Navy
those healthy young adults who can not afford it, will be brought in to the system through the affordability credits, through tax subsidies...won't they? So the insurance companies WILL reap the benefits to offset the disabled they have to cover that are not already covered by SSI...no?

the mandatory provision is still a gifthorse for the insurance industry imo....and gives no reason to lower their costs of doing business with hospitals and doctors due to real competition...

care

are these young adults who cannot afford insurance you refer to the 16 million who VOLUNTARILY OPTED OUT OF EMPLOYER HEALTH INSURANCE? This whole health care proposal STINKS and you liberals want to destory our country from within through fiscal irresponsibility of epic proportions!!! Why can't Obama just get a handle on the programs we already have in place!!!!

 

[PatekPhilippe]

right now, most health insurance premiums are structured in such a way that a family with 1 child pays the same as a family with 8 kids.

Is this fair?

nope.

yes it's fair!!!

 

[uscitizen]

I wonder how many of those 16 million that opted out of employer health insurance had insurance thru a spouses employer or some other source? Could the figures be skewed a bit?
I know I have opted out of employer health insurance in the past but has another source.

 

[Emma]

Look at Medicare deficit....that would only get worse.

Right now, Medicare covers the oldest and sickest demographic (seniors and disabled); not only that, but only $2.9 billion of the nearly $231 billion revenue for part A comes from premiums paid by its clients. This will add millions of premium-paying, younger and healthier people to the rolls.

 

[Care4all]

right now, most health insurance premiums are structured in such a way that a family with 1 child pays the same as a family with 8 kids.

Is this fair?

nope.

yes it's fair!!!

It is not only fair, it is how the insurance business model works.

And this is why Medicare is costing us more....because we do not have the healthy, non needy, paying in to the pool of medicare insurance with premiums, that could offset the needs of those who are sick....no?

 

[dilloduck]

nope.

yes it's fair!!!

It is not only fair, it is how the insurance business model works.

And this is why Medicare is costing us more....because we do not have the healthy, non needy, paying in to the pool of medicare insurance with premiums, that could offset the needs of those who are sick....no?

Lord knows that's why I'm going to work today---to pay other people's bills. NOT

 

[Care4all]

yes it's fair!!!

It is not only fair, it is how the insurance business model works.

And this is why Medicare is costing us more....because we do not have the healthy, non needy, paying in to the pool of medicare insurance with premiums, that could offset the needs of those who are sick....no?

Lord knows that's why I'm going to work today---to pay other people's bills. NOT

good morning dillo,
Matt and I have paid MORE in property taxes over the decades for other people's children's schooling than we have in our savings account for our own emergencies....I understand your sentiment.

However, right now, you going to work and paying taxes on what you earned, IS PAYING for our medicare shortfall right now....and if you paid a premium for your own health insurance to medicare, in waiting for when you may need it, then all those taxes from you that funds medicare for the elderly, won't be needed. It's an even dollar for dollar swap, only an added perk for you...because if and when you do need critical medical care, you are insured and will have coverage.....

care

 

[Anguille]

yes it's fair!!!

It is not only fair, it is how the insurance business model works.

And this is why Medicare is costing us more....because we do not have the healthy, non needy, paying in to the pool of medicare insurance with premiums, that could offset the needs of those who are sick....no?

Lord knows that's why I'm going to work today---to pay other people's bills. NOT

But I bet you have no problem when they pay yours.

 

[Anguille]

I'm thinking that part of the reason that many posters object to the fact that smaller families are paying for larger families is not that they don't agree we all have to share the burden of childcare, but because many people think that having too many kids is being greedy and uses up more resources, not just health care.

 

[Navy1960]

Humph. Old Rocks and I proposed this months ago:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1442648-post88.html

Kudos to both of you too then, Emma.

It is a good idea that I'm certain has support beyond the 5 of us.

It's just too damn bad that the ears of congress are all gummed up with lobby-dollars.

House Dems want Medicare for everyone - TheHill.com

Rep. Anthony Weiner has been pushing this for some time now.

House Dems want Medicare for everyone - TheHill.com

Emma, there is a difference between what Rep. Weiner is suggesting and what I am, from my understanding. Rep. Weiner to my knowledge is suggesting opening Medicare completely Part A. B. and D and that is not what I am suggesting at all. I am suggesting creating a Part G if you will that is for catastrophic coverage only. If people with to purchase other aspects of care then address that issue through the private market place. Now while to some that may sound like a bad thing because people spend a lot of time Emma turning the Insurance companies into villians however, it's those same Insurance companies that stand to benefit regardless of what plan you put in place. especially the "public option" as proposed. I also advocate taking whats left in TARP, and the Stimulus and to my knowledge its around 400 Billion and using that to shore up the Medicare Trust fund for that catastrophic coverage. There is a lot that can be done Emma to actually "reform" healthcare in this nation if only the people that worked for us had the courage to do it. I honestly do not believe that many would object to such a proposal and provides a firm foundation from which to start.

 

[Care4all]

I have no idea what medicare A, B and D or G or whatever, are....?

I think the idea of having medicare, through premiums we pay, cover Catastrophic insurance for us all, is a good idea. and us having to buy a supplemental plan for other insurance coverage good as well....

Or us fending for ourselves with these general wellness visits, without any kind of supplemental will be acceptable as well, for some of us.

I just am uncertain on what catastrophic insurance coverage is....?

I think we may need catastrophic insurance( if the same meaning as Hospitalization) that also covers diagnostic bills is needed.... a thousand or more dollars for a CAT scan or MRI, and hundreds for a simple xray that costs near nothing for them to do can be a bit much for the avearge joe and can also cause the supplemental insurance be high priced, as well.

care

 

[Navy1960]

Part G Care is something I made up as a good name for a "catastrophic option" rather than some name that implies a public giveaway. Part D is the part of medicare that covers perscription drugs for Seniors and the disabled. Part A and B is regular Medicare. You got it right though, catastrophic coverage that covers what would normally be something that does not apply to a regular Doctors visit, Hospital, MRI, X-Ray, etc. Personally I think if you did just that, and opened up healthcare purchasing anywhere along with funding it properly, you might really have something that a lot of people wil support.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I wonder how many of those 16 million that opted out of employer health insurance had insurance thru a spouses employer or some other source? Could the figures be skewed a bit?
I know I have opted out of employer health insurance in the past but has another source.

That could be a possibility....no doubt and a good point. See how easy that was?