Slippery Slopes

[Gunny]

What do people think of using a slippery slope argument when discussing an issue? It appears to be a reasoning tactic that I'm seeing pop up more and more. Thoughts on the general idea of the slippery slope?

When deciding on a course of action, one who does not consider all possible outcomes of that action is irresponsible. Yes, there are times when immediate decisions are required, but rarely in politics, as I assume is the context of your statement.

A perfect example, IMO is homosexuality. Forty years ago, one just did not admit he/she was gay. Little by little, under the leftist banner of "what does it matter what they're doing?", they've reached the point where they are now demanding special laws to support their aberrant lifestyle.

Those who let is slide then have created the situation we are in now where that topic is concerned.

 

[manu1959]

Amigo isn't hate speech. And your second paragraph couples well with my original post. If there is no two extreme ends to something, then the argument is about where to draw the line... what constitutes reasonable manner. To me, hatespeech is much worse then soft porn because it incites violence. So to me, the line looks like, for porn, it is drawn in an area where no one is being hurt. No one dies after seeing someone's rack. Victoria's secret commercials don't cause someone to get punched in the face. But then, with hatespeech, the line is drawn in the area where people do get hurt. If you call someone the n bomb you'll get punched.

This was my entire point of slippery slopes. We have to go back to banning soft porn because it leads to hard core porn which leads to this which leads to that. Why can't the line be drawn at hard porn? Why can't the line be before hatespeech? There seems to just be a lack of consistency.

you aren't married are you?

the slippery slope argument has become popular beacuse those that don't know how to argue use it to link two entirley different things to validate their opinion.....see your last statement...porn has nothing to do with racisim yet you link them to make your point

oh and the slippery slope argument is crap....if i buy you a beer then i will have to buy you more...fuck that you got one thats it....the real problem is people can't say no ..... and assume that since i did something for one person it automatically applies to them or i am not being fair....you are not them....tough

 

[sitarro]

If the black community asks to be called African-American, or perhaps asks NOT to be called the n bomb, why not be courteous and respect that wish?

Could someone please explain the logic of giving your allegiance to a continent that you were not born in and would not accept you if you tried to ive there. They are not Africans, they are Americans, shouldn't it be American-Africans if they really need to identify the continent their ancestors were born on? What do we call Africans that become American citizens . . . Lucky comes to mind? The whole thing is so rediculous, who gives a shit?

 

[Gunny]

you aren't married are you?

the slippery slope argument has become popular beacuse those that don't know how to argue use it to link two entirley different things to validate their opinion.....see your last statement...porn has nothing to do with racisim yet you link them to make your point

oh and the slippery slope argument is crap....if i buy you a beer then i will have to buy you more...fuck that you got one thats it....the real problem is people can't say no ..... and assume that since i did something for one person it automatically applies to them or i am not being fair....you are not them....tough

I agree with your statement; however, the symptoms you describe as "the real problem" are the symptoms of the "slippery slope" rather than an argument against it.

On one side you have people unwilling to say no; on the other special interest groups pushing their agenda to the limit. Once they get past one little hurdle, they don't stop.

 

[Gem]

As someone who uses the slippery slope argument...I'll drop in my two cents.

I don't like when people jump from A to Z while arguing. Just because we allow the morning after pill to be more readily available does NOT necessarily mean that we will have drive-thru abortion clinics within the year.

However...

I find people who immediately negate the slippery slope argument to be in another camp that I have problems with....those who don't seem to want to view how one thing, one decision, one change, plays off another until we have decisions that seem understandable and commonplace that NEVER would have seemed so without previous decisions.

Our society, our cultural identity is made up of all of us making decisions on what we think is ok, and what we think is not ok. We base new decisions, and rethink old ones, based upon what seems normal and appropriate now...and what seems normal and appropriate now comes about because of small decisions that change things ever so slightly.

I doubt seriously that anyone would have imagined that three people would be legally joined by civil union in the Netherlands 50 years ago. It would have seemed unthinkable...just like the fact that gay marriage would have been a major election year issue that the candidates for President would be debating on national TV.

The fact that both of these things are now reality is not an instantaneous, spontaneous occurrance. No one simply woke up one morning in 2001 saying..."Ya know...maybe gay marriage is something that should be allowed?"

It happened slowly, via miniscule changes that no one really paid much attention to at the time they were happening...and suddenly, people stop and say..."Hold up...how did we get here?!?!"

I use slippery slope arguments because every once in a while a decision comes up that is OBVIOUSLY one of those choices that WILL change society in a major way...maybe good, maybe bad...but changed. And I think...as a responsible society...we should be prepared to discuss what possible changes COULD come of such a decision.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Could someone please explain the logic of giving your allegiance to a continent that you were not born in and would not accept you if you tried to ive there. They are not Africans, they are Americans, shouldn't it be American-Africans if they really need to identify the continent their ancestors were born on? What do we call Africans that become American citizens . . . Lucky comes to mind? The whole thing is so rediculous, who gives a shit?

They do. That's why some of them asked to be called African-American. Others ask for ulterior motives. But you didn't answer my question. Isn't it simple courtesy to refer to someone by whatever they choose to be referred to?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

you aren't married are you?

the slippery slope argument has become popular beacuse those that don't know how to argue use it to link two entirley different things to validate their opinion.....see your last statement...porn has nothing to do with racisim yet you link them to make your point

oh and the slippery slope argument is crap....if i buy you a beer then i will have to buy you more...fuck that you got one thats it....the real problem is people can't say no ..... and assume that since i did something for one person it automatically applies to them or i am not being fair....you are not them....tough

Nope, not married, but been with my girl for 5 years come Saturday... so I get what you're saying. Point taken

The backhanded insult that I don't know how to argue is appreciated. Thanks. How a slippery slope has anything to do with what I was saying I don't get. There's no slope from porn to hatespeech or from hatespeech to porn. Porn relates to racism because both supposedly deteriorate the morality of the people of this country. My point is, some say one should be allowed while another shouldn't. I'm not sure if you saw that link or not, but if you still think I'm linking things that have nothing to do with each other, maybe I need you to expand on just what you're trying to say.

 

[GotZoom]

They do. That's why some of them asked to be called African-American. Others ask for ulterior motives. But you didn't answer my question. Isn't it simple courtesy to refer to someone by whatever they choose to be referred to?

Do Unto Others...

I have no problem being courteous to someone who who deserves, by their actions, courtesy. I generally try to be considerate of everyone at first, until they do something that demands a different behaviour.

Far too many, not all mind you, but far too many African-Americans are using this as their rally cry for other things: reparation, etc.

Someone comes to me and says, "I find the word 'dickhead' (or anyword/phrase) offensive, please don't refer to me by that or use it around me" - I have no problem respecting it.

Don't let me walk around the corner and find them using it to someone else, in jest or not.

And don't lower it to a racial issue - "You aren't allowed to use the word dickhead, but I can."

That is courtesy.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Do Unto Others...

I have no problem being courteous to someone who who deserves, by their actions, courtesy. I generally try to be considerate of everyone at first, until they do something that demands a different behaviour.

Far too many, not all mind you, but far too many African-Americans are using this as their rally cry for other things: reparation, etc.

Someone comes to me and says, "I find the word 'dickhead' (or anyword/phrase) offensive, please don't refer to me by that or use it around me" - I have no problem respecting it.

Don't let me walk around the corner and find them using it to someone else, in jest or not.

And don't lower it to a racial issue - "You aren't allowed to use the word dickhead, but I can."

That is courtesy.

I think the two of us already cleared this up. You feel that if two people call each other dickhead, you should be able to as well, even if they explicity ask you not to. (At least, that was the understanding I had, so correct me if I'm wrong). I, on the other hand, have no problem abstaining from calling anyone a dickhead, even if they let everyone else call them one.

Now, if someone calls you a dickhead, then it's fair game. Taking the higher road is still the commendable choice, however.

 

[GotZoom]

I think the two of us already cleared this up. You feel that if two people call each other dickhead, you should be able to as well, even if they explicity ask you not to. (At least, that was the understanding I had, so correct me if I'm wrong). I, on the other hand, have no problem abstaining from calling anyone a dickhead, even if they let everyone else call them one.

Now, if someone calls you a dickhead, then it's fair game. Taking the higher road is still the commendable choice, however.

You missed it. It has nothing to do with, "if they can use it, so can I."

If a word/phrase is offensive to a certain person or race, then it is offensive - period.

If isn't offensive "only-if" a certain group of people use it.

The infamous "N" word is an offensive work. People of the African-American race say it is offensive and shouldn't be used.

Then they shouldn't use it themselves.

I personally don't care if they call each other that name. I have NEVER...and can definitely say..NEVER used that word. And plan NEVER to use it.

But don't tell someone (or a group) that the "N" word is offensive, only if non-blacks use it. They say "We" are allowed to use that word, even though it is offensive to us, but you aren't.

That is BS.

 

[sitarro]

They do. That's why some of them asked to be called African-American. Others ask for ulterior motives. But you didn't answer my question. Isn't it simple courtesy to refer to someone by whatever they choose to be referred to?

Well in my 51 years I have seen this change plenty of times. They have been called and referred to themselves as colored people, negroes, black, black Americans, people of color, Africans and African Americans. Just the other day I read a very intelligent poster on another site say that he was an American of African descent but he prefered to be called an American.
I find people that need to identify themselves with hyphenated excess terms have bigger ego and self worth problems that aren't going to be solved with mere labels.
Since we get to demand how we are addressed, I want to be called "Sitarro the Almighty" for now on or I will be forced to riot.

 

[Nuc]

Could someone please explain the logic of giving your allegiance to a continent that you were not born in and would not accept you if you tried to ive there. They are not Africans, they are Americans, shouldn't it be American-Africans if they really need to identify the continent their ancestors were born on? What do we call Africans that become American citizens . . . Lucky comes to mind? The whole thing is so rediculous, who gives a shit?

You are absolutely right here. I refuse to use that ridiculous terminology in part because I have some actual African-American friends (born in Africa) who don't relate at all to the long time residents of the same color. When they asked to switch from Negro to black, OK, but I'm not going to go along with this shell game forever.

 

[sitarro]

You are absolutely right here. I refuse to use that ridiculous terminology in part because I have some actual African-American friends (born in Africa) who don't relate at all to the long time residents of the same color. When they asked to switch from Negro to black, OK, but I'm not going to go along with this shell game forever.

That is interesting that you know people that the hyphenation is actually correct. I would love to know what their opinions are on the foolishness of so many American blacks and the talk of reperations, racism, etc. What do they think of the race baiters like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Farrakan, et al.

 

[sitarro]

I watched Blazzing Saddles last night and was amazed at how often the word ****** was used, in todays world it could never be made unless Spike Lee directed it. What was so incredible about that movie was the way blacks were portrayed, the whites that used that word seemed all that much more ignorant because of the lack of reaction and the coolness of those blacks. I think Mel Brooks sought to show just that, words only have power if you assign that power to them. The more secure a person is the less insults bother them. . . part of the reason I think that "cracker" has never had the sting that it was intended to have.
That movie still holds up as one of the best parodies I have ever seen.

 

[GotZoom]

Speaking of Blazing Saddles...we could even go farther. If a white person today, tried to make that - it would never get filmed.

Lets make a list of movies a white person could never make:

White Chicks - either the way it was actually made or worse - with white guys with black faces.

Confederate States of America (new movie just released) - It shows what if the South won? Home shopping with "slaves", etc... Let's see a white person make that one.

Too much double-standard. Again, if it is offensive, it is offensive, regardless of who is behind it.

 

[no1tovote4]

Well in my 51 years I have seen this change plenty of times. They have been called and referred to themselves as colored people, negroes, black, black Americans, people of color, Africans and African Americans. Just the other day I read a very intelligent poster on another site say that he was an American of African descent but he prefered to be called an American.
I find people that need to identify themselves with hyphenated excess terms have bigger ego and self worth problems that aren't going to be solved with mere labels.
Since we get to demand how we are addressed, I want to be called "Sitarro the Almighty" for now on or I will be forced to riot.

Hey Sitarro the Almighty,

You forgot Afro-Americans, at one time they wanted to be called Afro-Americans.

And you can refer to me as Supreme-American...

 

[manu1959]

Speaking of Blazing Saddles...we could even go farther. If a white person today, tried to make that - it would never get filmed.

Lets make a list of movies a white person could never make:

White Chicks - either the way it was actually made or worse - with white guys with black faces.

Confederate States of America (new movie just released) - It shows what if the South won? Home shopping with "slaves", etc... Let's see a white person make that one.

Too much double-standard. Again, if it is offensive, it is offensive, regardless of who is behind it.

any of spike lee's films

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Hey Sitarro the Almighty,

You forgot Afro-Americans, at one time they wanted to be called Afro-Americans.

And you can refer to me as Supreme-American...

Or if they wish to be referred to as "blacks" and that is considered "good form", then why not refer to others as browns, reds, yellows, and whites? Not too mention we could throw in mochas, midnight blacks, ultra pure whites, burnt siennas, ochres...

Or am i slipping down that slope too much...? :cof:

 

[Shattered]

Or if they wish to be referred to as "blacks" and that is considered "good form", <b>then why not refer to others as browns, reds, yellows, and whites?</b> Not too mention we could throw in mochas, midnight blacks, ultra pure whites, burnt siennas, ochres...

Or am i slipping down that slope too much...? :cof:

Don't laugh.. I know someone that does this...