Single payer in Cali?

[Skynet]

Fvck, I am taxed enough already and on the verge of going back to Texas. Businesses, upper-class and middle upper-class are fleeing the state already. Wait till they see what happens is single payer goes through.

go back to texas, you can be part of the 27% of the uninsured there.

 

[auditor0007]

I'll assume you are talking to me.

Everything the government touches causes an increase in cost.

Get the government uninvolved, including the states and let it go from there.

How do I know this will work?

TX has the nations lowest premiums. Why? B/c every ins co is allowed to be there.

Competion brings down cost.

Texas also has the highest percentage of uninsured, leading the nation at close to 27%. This basically tells us that insurance companies that operate in Texas have been successful at keeping those at the highest risk from being insured, thereby reducing the costs for everyone else. If your answer to lower premiums is keeping more people uninsured, then Texas is a great example of how to do it.

Uninsured: Highest Percentage in Texas, Lowest in Mass.

How many of those are illegals, and how many chose not to be covered?

I'm sure a good percentage are illegals. However, I'm also sure that a great many of them are those with pre-existing conditions that have been denied coverage, and now due to their illnesses can no longer afford coverage even if it were available. When you actually become sick and see what the insurance companies will do to force you out, you might then understand why our system is in such a mess. It's easy to tell everyone how they need to be responsible for themselves, no matter how much the deck may be stacked against them, when you are healthy and employed. Get sick and lose your job, and all of a sudden you begin to understand what a nightmare health insurance can be. Even if you get back to work, unless your employer provides the insurance, you will be denied or forced to pay triple or quadruple the premium of everyone else, which very few can afford.

 

[Anachronism]

i bet he couldnt afford insurance without his employer paying the majority of it. he should get what he deserves for not caring about anyone but himself.

I have afforded insurance in the past, paying 100% of it myself, thank you very much.

wake up and think about someone else besides yourself for once in your life.

Sorry but my personal world revolves around ME and ME ALONE. The rest of you get to fend for yourselves, just as your society has left me to deal with my own problems.

 

[daveman]

Wow. You are psycho.


Did you know that the latest estimate is that 30% of employers will discontinue coverage starting 2014 because of Obamacare.

That is 10s of millions of people.

Perhaps you can have a celebratory party.

But...but The One said we could keep our coverage if we liked it!


Looks like he lied. Yet again. That's okay -- the Troo Beleevers will excuse him for it.

* June 15, 2009,

Obama: ‘If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Keep Your Doctor’

Obama: ‘If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Keep Your Doctor’ - Washington Wire - WSJ



McKinsey Quartlery

A bigger effect than expected

As we have seen, a Congressional Budget Office report estimated that only 9 million to 10 million people, or about 7 percent of employees, currently covered by ESI would have to switch to subsidized exchange policies in 2014. Most surveys of employers likewise show relatively low interest in shifting employees from traditional ESI.

Our survey found, however, that 45 to 50 percent of employers say they will definitely or probably pursue alternatives to ESI in the years after 2014. Those alternatives include dropping coverage, offering it through a defined-contribution model, or in effect offering it only to certain employees. More than 30 percent of employers overall, and 28 percent of large ones, say they will definitely or probably drop coverage after 2014.

https://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/How_US_health_care_reform_will_affect_employee_benefits_2813

And as I predicted, the Troo Beleevers are excusing Obama for his lies.

 

[daveman]

Wow. You are psycho.


Did you know that the latest estimate is that 30% of employers will discontinue coverage starting 2014 because of Obamacare.

That is 10s of millions of people.

Perhaps you can have a celebratory party.

haha im not the one who told every american if you cant afford health insurance, well tough luck. or did you miss that post? i bet he couldnt afford insurance without his employer paying the majority of it. he should get what he deserves for not caring about anyone but himself.

my employer helps pay my premium and i feel lucky that he does. i dont tell everyone else to fuck off and its too bad that he pays for some of it and they cant afford it. i could still afford health care if he didnt pay a portion. if that were the case am i suppose to demoize those who get it subsidized through their employer. wake up and think about someone else besides yourself for once in your life.

So the ultimate plan was always universal suffering and lack of healthcare for all?

Thanks for clearing that up. More of class warfare that liberals think benefits the country somehow and makes us a greater nation.

You got what you wanted. You should have a party.

He will, once he can get somebody else to pay for it.

 

[Skynet]

please show me anyone with evidence who has had their employer cancel their insurance and cite the new health care law as evidence.

its gonna be kinda hard since it hasnt even gone into affect yet.

and again state where he / I lied.

 

[Anachronism]

so you just admitted your part of the one of those evil fascist unions? damn those are terrible things, are all conservatives against unions and collective bargaining? shouldnt you be rallying again unions and their power?

Unions are neither a panacea nor a horror. My job is unionized. I'm either part of the Union or I don't have a job. Pretty simple choice there. I've been on both sides of the fence and they both have their positive and negative points. That's all I'm going to say on that issue.

so tell me, do i get to say fuck you, too bad. if they cut your benefits and you can no longer afford health insurance?

Personally, you can say whatever you want whenever you want about whatever you want. It makes no difference to me. The moment I start concerning myself with or caring about about what you or anyone else thinks or says about me, it's time for me to eat a bullet.

 

[Provocateur]

please show me anyone with evidence who has had their employer cancel their insurance and cite the new health care law as evidence.

its gonna be kinda hard since it hasnt even gone into affect yet.

and again state where he / I lied.

What do you think all the waivers are about?

I gave you the link to the most recent survey. If you just want to ignore the failures of the three examples given where this has been attempted at a state level, you may do so. However, I am not going to waste my time providing evidence just so that you can get your square peg into a round hole.

You want it to work. You want certain outcomes.


Not going to happen. Perhaps if you really tried to analyze what people provide you, instead of holding the hard party line, you would come to more thoughtful conclusions.

 

[Gadawg73]

Medical insurance works IN NO WAY like all other insurance companies.
Any insurance that allows everyone to go get any care they want and have it paid for is the problem.
Does your car insurance pay for tires and oil changes?
Does your homeowners pay for paint, new carpet and roof?
There are little if any free market forces at work in the health care industry today BECAUSE OF health insurance. Doing away with group health insurance, have individual policies only and charge large premiums for folks that want to include ordinary doctor visits will solve the problem.
Insurance companies are A THIRD PARTY. Anyone that runs their own business knows that when a third party, NOT THE CONSUMER, is paying the bill then the charges are always inflated and the costs skyrocket.
And that is the current system we have-BROKEN.
We need a return to free market capitalism in the health industry. What we have now is insurance company mandated. It works at 3 times what others pay for the same care in other countries.

 

[Skynet]

please show me anyone with evidence who has had their employer cancel their insurance and cite the new health care law as evidence.

its gonna be kinda hard since it hasnt even gone into affect yet.

and again state where he / I lied.

What do you think all the waivers are about?

I gave you the link to the most recent survey. If you just want to ignore the failures of the three examples given where this has been attempted at a state level, you may do so. However, I am not going to waste my time providing evidence just so that you can get your square peg into a round hole.

You want it to work. You want certain outcomes.


Not going to happen. Perhaps if you really tried to analyze what people provide you, instead of holding the hard party line, you would come to more thoughtful conclusions.

several kinds of employee health insurance plans were now, officially, considered to be below standard. Some large corporations, like McDonald's, had been offering some of their employees a mini-med health insurance plan. At least some of these corporations decided that upgrading their current health plan to meet the new requirements was going to be too expensive. Instead, they were threatening to simply stop offering their employees any health insurance, whatsoever.

The result would be that a lot of Americans who were getting at least some health insurance coverage would suddenly have no health insurance at all. This group of people did not make enough income to be able to afford private, individual, health insurance. To prevent a situation where a lot of Americans suddenly would be without health insurance coverage, the federal government granted waivers to some of the large corporations who were making these threats. The waivers would allow the company to continue to offer it's employees substandard health insurance, for a limited time.

the federal government has granted 1,372 waivers to employers and to health plans in all 50 states. This covers less than 2% of the insurance market (to give you some perspective). The waivers protect more than 3.1 million Americans that would have lost their health insurance when the large corporations were planning on dropping their employee health plans.

The waivers are temporary. They will no longer be available in 2014, when two things are expected to happen. The health insurance exchanges are intended to be up and running in 2014. This will give Americans a way to locate a health insurance plan that they can afford. The other thing that will happen in 2014 is that the annual dollar limit, or cap, that insurance companies currently place on health care, will be banned.

The Truth About Insurance Waivers - Insurance - Families.com

 

[Provocateur]

please show me anyone with evidence who has had their employer cancel their insurance and cite the new health care law as evidence.

its gonna be kinda hard since it hasnt even gone into affect yet.

and again state where he / I lied.

What do you think all the waivers are about?

I gave you the link to the most recent survey. If you just want to ignore the failures of the three examples given where this has been attempted at a state level, you may do so. However, I am not going to waste my time providing evidence just so that you can get your square peg into a round hole.

You want it to work. You want certain outcomes.


Not going to happen. Perhaps if you really tried to analyze what people provide you, instead of holding the hard party line, you would come to more thoughtful conclusions.

several kinds of employee health insurance plans were now, officially, considered to be below standard. Some large corporations, like McDonald's, had been offering some of their employees a mini-med health insurance plan. At least some of these corporations decided that upgrading their current health plan to meet the new requirements was going to be too expensive. Instead, they were threatening to simply stop offering their employees any health insurance, whatsoever.

The result would be that a lot of Americans who were getting at least some health insurance coverage would suddenly have no health insurance at all. This group of people did not make enough income to be able to afford private, individual, health insurance. To prevent a situation where a lot of Americans suddenly would be without health insurance coverage, the federal government granted waivers to some of the large corporations who were making these threats. The waivers would allow the company to continue to offer it's employees substandard health insurance, for a limited time.

the federal government has granted 1,372 waivers to employers and to health plans in all 50 states. This covers less than 2% of the insurance market (to give you some perspective). The waivers protect more than 3.1 million Americans that would have lost their health insurance when the large corporations were planning on dropping their employee health plans.

The waivers are temporary. They will no longer be available in 2014, when two things are expected to happen. The health insurance exchanges are intended to be up and running in 2014. This will give Americans a way to locate a health insurance plan that they can afford. The other thing that will happen in 2014 is that the annual dollar limit, or cap, that insurance companies currently place on health care, will be banned.

The Truth About Insurance Waivers - Insurance - Families.com

Yes, thank you. They received waivers to buy time until 2014, at which time up to 50% (but definitely 30%) will drop coverage.

Have a nice day.

 

[Skynet]

What do you think all the waivers are about?

I gave you the link to the most recent survey. If you just want to ignore the failures of the three examples given where this has been attempted at a state level, you may do so. However, I am not going to waste my time providing evidence just so that you can get your square peg into a round hole.

You want it to work. You want certain outcomes.


Not going to happen. Perhaps if you really tried to analyze what people provide you, instead of holding the hard party line, you would come to more thoughtful conclusions.

several kinds of employee health insurance plans were now, officially, considered to be below standard. Some large corporations, like McDonald's, had been offering some of their employees a mini-med health insurance plan. At least some of these corporations decided that upgrading their current health plan to meet the new requirements was going to be too expensive. Instead, they were threatening to simply stop offering their employees any health insurance, whatsoever.

The result would be that a lot of Americans who were getting at least some health insurance coverage would suddenly have no health insurance at all. This group of people did not make enough income to be able to afford private, individual, health insurance. To prevent a situation where a lot of Americans suddenly would be without health insurance coverage, the federal government granted waivers to some of the large corporations who were making these threats. The waivers would allow the company to continue to offer it's employees substandard health insurance, for a limited time.

the federal government has granted 1,372 waivers to employers and to health plans in all 50 states. This covers less than 2% of the insurance market (to give you some perspective). The waivers protect more than 3.1 million Americans that would have lost their health insurance when the large corporations were planning on dropping their employee health plans.

The waivers are temporary. They will no longer be available in 2014, when two things are expected to happen. The health insurance exchanges are intended to be up and running in 2014. This will give Americans a way to locate a health insurance plan that they can afford. The other thing that will happen in 2014 is that the annual dollar limit, or cap, that insurance companies currently place on health care, will be banned.

The Truth About Insurance Waivers - Insurance - Families.com

Yes, thank you. They received waivers to buy time until 2014, at which time up to 50% (but definitely 30%) will drop coverage.

Have a nice day.

and youre proof that 30-50% will drop coverage is............. a guess????

some will blame the HC law and drop coverage, it just means that these people will get their insurance from the exchange.

 

[Provocateur]

several kinds of employee health insurance plans were now, officially, considered to be below standard. Some large corporations, like McDonald's, had been offering some of their employees a mini-med health insurance plan. At least some of these corporations decided that upgrading their current health plan to meet the new requirements was going to be too expensive. Instead, they were threatening to simply stop offering their employees any health insurance, whatsoever.

The result would be that a lot of Americans who were getting at least some health insurance coverage would suddenly have no health insurance at all. This group of people did not make enough income to be able to afford private, individual, health insurance. To prevent a situation where a lot of Americans suddenly would be without health insurance coverage, the federal government granted waivers to some of the large corporations who were making these threats. The waivers would allow the company to continue to offer it's employees substandard health insurance, for a limited time.

the federal government has granted 1,372 waivers to employers and to health plans in all 50 states. This covers less than 2% of the insurance market (to give you some perspective). The waivers protect more than 3.1 million Americans that would have lost their health insurance when the large corporations were planning on dropping their employee health plans.

The waivers are temporary. They will no longer be available in 2014, when two things are expected to happen. The health insurance exchanges are intended to be up and running in 2014. This will give Americans a way to locate a health insurance plan that they can afford. The other thing that will happen in 2014 is that the annual dollar limit, or cap, that insurance companies currently place on health care, will be banned.

The Truth About Insurance Waivers - Insurance - Families.com

Yes, thank you. They received waivers to buy time until 2014, at which time up to 50% (but definitely 30%) will drop coverage.

Have a nice day.

and youre proof that 30-50% will drop coverage is............. a guess????

some will blame the HC law and drop coverage, it just means that these people will get their insurance from the exchange.

I linked it in post 88.

https://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/How_US_health_care_reform_will_affect_employee_benefits_2813


This report came out this month. Perhaps you should broaden which news sources you access so that you can keep up on current information.


And you are right. Those tens of millions people dropped can get a lesser plan from the exchange. It'll be great for working Americans to pay out of pocket for the lesser coverage. It's only fair in a liberal utopia. I get that. I really do.

 

[Claudette]

If Cali wants to vote this insanity in then let em.

Just don't let em come crying to the taxpayers of America to bail their asses out when it tanks.

 

[Harry Dresden]

CA's 25 billion dollars in the hole. Companies are leaving as fast as they can get packed up.

How the hell do those idiots think they're going to pay for this?

By removing most of the responsibility from employers to provide healthcare, it may well bring business back to California. The biggest problem in California though, is covering all the illegals. Remove them from the equation and costs would be reduced with any system of healthcare.

and you know thats not going to happen....not out here anyway....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Those poor Californians. I can't imagine living under such an oppressive government.

i can walk around my neighborhood at night,matter of fact 97% of the cities in OC......can you do that in Philly?......or just certain parts?......

 

[Skynet]

Yes, thank you. They received waivers to buy time until 2014, at which time up to 50% (but definitely 30%) will drop coverage.

Have a nice day.

and youre proof that 30-50% will drop coverage is............. a guess????

some will blame the HC law and drop coverage, it just means that these people will get their insurance from the exchange.

I linked it in post 88.

https://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/How_US_health_care_reform_will_affect_employee_benefits_2813


This report came out this month. Perhaps you should broaden which news sources you access so that you can keep up on current information.


And you are right. Those tens of millions people dropped can get a lesser plan from the exchange. It'll be great for working Americans to pay out of pocket for the lesser coverage. It's only fair in a liberal utopia. I get that. I really do.

i see an opinion, but i havent seen 30-50% of employers start dropping coverage, so i rate you claim as half true.

 

[Seawytch]

if you dont live in Cali why do you even care about this?

Because it's going to fail, and fail huge, and then CA will come begging and crying to Congress, and then the rest of us will have to pay for CA's liberal failure.

Are we talking about the same California that has been giving more to the Feds than it gets back? That California?

 

[Seawytch]

The only argument offered by the naysayers (in the link provided by TM's), is Leno's bill is socialism. Currently our medical system is based on capitalism, which means profit is the first order of business, not the patient.

I don't understand. How will a system which is not focused on profit, as is the medical care system in America today, more costly than one which is non profit?
Please explain, Two Thumbs, with some detail how you have concluded the plan in Leno's bill will increase spending?

What are they going to pay for it with?

Do you have no concept of what single payer is?

 

[Seawytch]

As federal health reforms take effect, Aetna proposes rate cuts

BOOM!!!