Since we need jobs why not?

[Skull Pilot]

Where was the return on investment for going to the moon when it started? Where was the return on investment when the highway system was first started?

What do you suggest as a solution? Let me guess free unfettered capitalism will make it all better.

NASA was nothing but a political venture meant to intimate the perceived enemies of the USA. There never was an lntended economic return

The original intent of the highway system was not economic but rather defense

I don't think that the government can artificially manufacture economic opportunities. The best thing to do is to let people decide where to invest their money not to force them to invest via confiscatory taxes in extremely expensive wasteful government projects with the promise of dubious returns.

Clearly you are worng because they have and they do.

Yeah all those bridges to nowhere really paid off.

 

[Gideonprime]

Yes I have and European countries are much much smaller than the US. Try factoring that into your equations.

The fact is that very very few people in this country will ever use a bullet train for travel but all of us will be expected to pay for it. That is not a prudent use of taxpayer money.

The trillions of dollars it will cost will never be recouped by ticket sales alone which means that people who will never ever ride the train will be paying for it unless of course the fucking government mandates that we ride the train once a month or be taxed.

Think beyond the obvious. A train stops (briefly) in communities all across the county. Not all travel will be from Coast to Coast and not all trains will carry passengers. Think of the trucks now crossing the nation moving goods from point to point, polluting the air with diesel and using tires destined for our landfills.

Building a heavy rail system will include feeder lines - heavy and light rail - and create jobs for decades to come; the OP was spot on. I simply cannot understand how we get our economy moving again by cutting jobs, jobs which will employ workers who will buy products and services creating more jobs.

If there were money to be had in building more railroads it would be done.

What don't you understand about that?

The fact that private industry is not willing to take on the cost of doing so should be a red flag to people that these projects will cost more than they return.

That's like saying at the birth of the internal combustion engine who needs this new fangled contraption we've got horses and we love our horses so who'd drive a horseless carriage like that!

 

[Meister]

Why not do what the previous administrations did and work on US infrastructure? Start up a project that would employ people that connects major cities and towns with data, shipping, and people traveling.

You could make a project to put High speed rail across the US, and couple large data and even power conduits along it. The present power system could be redone and made better.

Basically what i see is a web of high speed rail connections running between big cities. Along the rail system you would also run your power and data lines. This would create a lot of jobs and really make the US infrastructure so much better. It is the next generation of transportation systems, and it would really be great if they started this project.

Wasn't the first stimulus supposed to be for the infrastructure?
Rail system has sucked for years, that's why there has been a major pull back with it in the last 50 years. Amtrack has sucked for just as long...that's not going to change when we are a nation of autos. Of course, now we can have the government just tax the hell out of the auto industry and us to force us to use the rail system.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Think beyond the obvious. A train stops (briefly) in communities all across the county. Not all travel will be from Coast to Coast and not all trains will carry passengers. Think of the trucks now crossing the nation moving goods from point to point, polluting the air with diesel and using tires destined for our landfills.

Building a heavy rail system will include feeder lines - heavy and light rail - and create jobs for decades to come; the OP was spot on. I simply cannot understand how we get our economy moving again by cutting jobs, jobs which will employ workers who will buy products and services creating more jobs.

If there were money to be had in building more railroads it would be done.

What don't you understand about that?

The fact that private industry is not willing to take on the cost of doing so should be a red flag to people that these projects will cost more than they return.

That's like saying at the birth of the internal combustion engine who needs this new fangled contraption we've got horses and we love our horses so who'd drive a horseless carriage like that!

The government did not invent nor fund the invention of the internal combustion engine now did it?

The inception and growth of that industry and the hundreds of others related to it started in the private sector not the public sector. Therefore the internal combustion engine is a better example of my train of thought than yours.

 

[The T]

Why not do what the previous administrations did and work on US infrastructure? Start up a project that would employ people that connects major cities and towns with data, shipping, and people traveling.

You could make a project to put High speed rail across the US, and couple large data and even power conduits along it. The present power system could be redone and made better.

Basically what i see is a web of high speed rail connections running between big cities. Along the rail system you would also run your power and data lines. This would create a lot of jobs and really make the US infrastructure so much better. It is the next generation of transportation systems, and it would really be great if they started this project.

Wasn't the first stimulus supposed to be for the infrastructure?
Rail system has sucked for years, that's why there has been a major pull back with it in the last 50 years. Amtrack has sucked for just as long...that's not going to change when we are a nation of autos. Of course, now we can have the government just tax the hell out of the auto industry and us to force us to use the rail system.

Isn't that the main goal of taxing as it is presently used? Behaviour modification?

 

[Gideonprime]

NASA was nothing but a political venture meant to intimate the perceived enemies of the USA. There never was an lntended economic return

The original intent of the highway system was not economic but rather defense

I don't think that the government can artificially manufacture economic opportunities. The best thing to do is to let people decide where to invest their money not to force them to invest via confiscatory taxes in extremely expensive wasteful government projects with the promise of dubious returns.

Clearly you are worng because they have and they do.

Yeah all those bridges to nowhere really paid off.

Hey blame the moron who proposed it.

Did I suggest building a bridge to nowhere? We have plenty of bridges that lots people use everyday that are in dire need of work.

Why do you seem want America to rot away? Do you really believe that a smart government lets its nation slowly decay until the things that help hold it together fall into ruin?

 

[Meister]

Clearly you are worng because they have and they do.

Yeah all those bridges to nowhere really paid off.

Hey blame the moron who proposed it.

Did I suggest building a bridge to nowhere? We have plenty of bridges that lots people use everyday that are in dire need of work.

Why do you seem want America to rot away? Do you really believe that a smart government lets its nation slowly decay until the things that help hold it together fall into ruin?

What was the gasoline tax supposed to be used for?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Clearly you are worng because they have and they do.

Yeah all those bridges to nowhere really paid off.

Hey blame the moron who proposed it.

Did I suggest building a bridge to nowhere? We have plenty of bridges that lots people use everyday that are in dire need of work.

Why do you seem want America to rot away? Do you really believe that a smart government lets its nation slowly decay until the things that help hold it together fall into ruin?

Where did I say let the roads decay?

I said building a ridiculously expensive high speed rail that will undoubtedly cost at least twice as much as proposed is not a prudent use of taxpayer dollars .

 

[Avorysuds]

I'm getting so tired of these boards.

The stimulus was sold as a "infrastructure" stimulus. Shovel ready jobs ring a bell. The problem is Government can spend 10 bucks doing the same thing the privet sector gets done for 1 dollar. The problem is we already run a 1.5 trillion dollar deficit dude to welfare spending.

At some point people need to stop claiming "if we would just spend more" and realize we are doing a nonstop stimulus as it is. Government is huge, to claim we need more of something that is literal hundreds of times bigger that it should be already is just out of control stupidity.

When does “Small Government and freer markets get a chance to solve this crisis? You knwo the answer that doesn't run massive deficits like Bush and Obama have done.

 

[Gideonprime]

If there were money to be had in building more railroads it would be done.

What don't you understand about that?

The fact that private industry is not willing to take on the cost of doing so should be a red flag to people that these projects will cost more than they return.

That's like saying at the birth of the internal combustion engine who needs this new fangled contraption we've got horses and we love our horses so who'd drive a horseless carriage like that!

The government did not invent nor fund the invention of the internal combustion engine now did it?

The inception and growth of that industry and the hundreds of others related to it started in the private sector not the public sector. Therefore the internal combustion engine is a better example of my train of thought than yours.

No but the government built roads which lead to a boom in the automobile industry.

Guess what the government didn't invent high speed rail either, but they could build the tracks and lead to a boom in that industry as well.

 

[Gideonprime]

Yeah all those bridges to nowhere really paid off.

Hey blame the moron who proposed it.

Did I suggest building a bridge to nowhere? We have plenty of bridges that lots people use everyday that are in dire need of work.

Why do you seem want America to rot away? Do you really believe that a smart government lets its nation slowly decay until the things that help hold it together fall into ruin?

Where did I say let the roads decay?

I said building a ridiculously expensive high speed rail that will undoubtedly cost at least twice as much as proposed is not a prudent use of taxpayer dollars .

Yes you keep carping about the high speed rail. However, that is not the only infrastructure project that is being discussed in the thread.

We get it you hate high speed rail.

So how about grid improvements (though I see less chance of return on that investment than rail) or highway and bridge improvement (oh wait you seem to think all bridges lead to nowhere).

 

[Meister]

That's like saying at the birth of the internal combustion engine who needs this new fangled contraption we've got horses and we love our horses so who'd drive a horseless carriage like that!

The government did not invent nor fund the invention of the internal combustion engine now did it?

The inception and growth of that industry and the hundreds of others related to it started in the private sector not the public sector. Therefore the internal combustion engine is a better example of my train of thought than yours.

No but the government built roads which lead to a boom in the automobile industry.

Guess what the government didn't invent high speed rail either, but they could build the tracks and lead to a boom in that industry as well.

At one time, we needed a rail system to get from point A to point B, it was a smart move.
At one time we needed a highway system to get from point A to point B, it also was a smart move.
There is no need for a high speed rail system, because we already have a system in place that is a lot cheaper than high speed rail. It wouldn't be cost effective in the long run.

 

[Katzndogz]

Think beyond the obvious. A train stops (briefly) in communities all across the county. Not all travel will be from Coast to Coast and not all trains will carry passengers. Think of the trucks now crossing the nation moving goods from point to point, polluting the air with diesel and using tires destined for our landfills.

Building a heavy rail system will include feeder lines - heavy and light rail - and create jobs for decades to come; the OP was spot on. I simply cannot understand how we get our economy moving again by cutting jobs, jobs which will employ workers who will buy products and services creating more jobs.

If there were money to be had in building more railroads it would be done.

What don't you understand about that?

The fact that private industry is not willing to take on the cost of doing so should be a red flag to people that these projects will cost more than they return.

That's like saying at the birth of the internal combustion engine who needs this new fangled contraption we've got horses and we love our horses so who'd drive a horseless carriage like that!

The government did not develop the internal combustion engine, nor did it build the factories, nor did it subsidize its development. The worker's didn't have a union. The government never even built a gas station. The government didn't even give a tax break for buying one. The automotive industry is a marvel of private enterprise.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hey blame the moron who proposed it.

Did I suggest building a bridge to nowhere? We have plenty of bridges that lots people use everyday that are in dire need of work.

Why do you seem want America to rot away? Do you really believe that a smart government lets its nation slowly decay until the things that help hold it together fall into ruin?

Where did I say let the roads decay?

I said building a ridiculously expensive high speed rail that will undoubtedly cost at least twice as much as proposed is not a prudent use of taxpayer dollars .

Yes you keep carping about the high speed rail. However, that is not the only infrastructure project that is being discussed in the thread.

We get it you hate high speed rail.

So how about grid improvements (though I see less chance of return on that investment than rail) or highway and bridge improvement (oh wait you seem to think all bridges lead to nowhere).

I don't "hate" anyhting.

The fact that you can't separate you emotions from your decisions on how to spend other people's money is your problem not mine.

Grid improvements should be done by the utility companies. If there's a return to be had then it will be had. The minute you throw the federal government in the mix all hopes of fiscal responsibility flies out the window.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Simpleminded twits like you think money grows on trees. If the Feds only threw some of that play money into high speed rail projects, etc.....the USA would be swimming in more money.

Uh, you take money from the private sector and put it into the public sector. So either you raise taxes on the private sector to get more play money to play with or you quit spending some of that play money on other things like the DoD or Obamacare.

Of course, your answer will be either raise taxes or cut up the DoD budget to spend that money on trains. Trains that people don't use like those things called airplanes. So harm national defense to create some so-called green jobs, nice plan twit.

FYI...the money spent on national defense gives a bigger bang for the buck than hiring construction workers to lay down railroad tracks.

Why not do what the previous administrations did and work on US infrastructure? Start up a project that would employ people that connects major cities and towns with data, shipping, and people traveling.

You could make a project to put High speed rail across the US, and couple large data and even power conduits along it. The present power system could be redone and made better.

Basically what i see is a web of high speed rail connections running between big cities. Along the rail system you would also run your power and data lines. This would create a lot of jobs and really make the US infrastructure so much better. It is the next generation of transportation systems, and it would really be great if they started this project.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That's like saying at the birth of the internal combustion engine who needs this new fangled contraption we've got horses and we love our horses so who'd drive a horseless carriage like that!

The government did not invent nor fund the invention of the internal combustion engine now did it?

The inception and growth of that industry and the hundreds of others related to it started in the private sector not the public sector. Therefore the internal combustion engine is a better example of my train of thought than yours.

No but the government built roads which lead to a boom in the automobile industry.

Guess what the government didn't invent high speed rail either, but they could build the tracks and lead to a boom in that industry as well.

The internal combustion engine had a life all its own before the fucking government got involved.

And again the building of the interstate highway system was not designed to be an economic stimulus. It was a one off project that happened to have ancillary benefits.

We are at a point where more new roads and more new rails will not deliver the same return.

law of diminishing returns

The tendency for a continuing application of effort or skill toward a particular project or goal to decline in effectiveness after a certain level of result has been achieved.

 

[Gideonprime]

Where did I say let the roads decay?

I said building a ridiculously expensive high speed rail that will undoubtedly cost at least twice as much as proposed is not a prudent use of taxpayer dollars .

Yes you keep carping about the high speed rail. However, that is not the only infrastructure project that is being discussed in the thread.

We get it you hate high speed rail.

So how about grid improvements (though I see less chance of return on that investment than rail) or highway and bridge improvement (oh wait you seem to think all bridges lead to nowhere).

I don't "hate" anyhting.

The fact that you can't separate you emotions from your decisions on how to spend other people's money is your problem not mine.

Grid improvements should be done by the utility companies. If there's a return to be had then it will be had. The minute you throw the federal government in the mix all hopes of fiscal responsibility flies out the window.

Well, fair enough then. Agree to disagree. Cheers!

 

[Gideonprime]

Simpleminded twits like you think money grows on trees. If the Feds only threw some of that play money into high speed rail projects, etc.....the USA would be swimming in more money.

Uh, you take money from the private sector and put it into the public sector. So either you raise taxes on the private sector to get more play money to play with or you quit spending some of that play money on other things like the DoD or Obamacare.

Of course, your answer will be either raise taxes or cut up the DoD budget to spend that money on trains. Trains that people don't use like those things called airplanes. So harm national defense to create some so-called green jobs, nice plan twit.

FYI...the money spent on national defense gives a bigger bang for the buck than hiring construction workers to lay down railroad tracks.

Why not do what the previous administrations did and work on US infrastructure? Start up a project that would employ people that connects major cities and towns with data, shipping, and people traveling.

You could make a project to put High speed rail across the US, and couple large data and even power conduits along it. The present power system could be redone and made better.

Basically what i see is a web of high speed rail connections running between big cities. Along the rail system you would also run your power and data lines. This would create a lot of jobs and really make the US infrastructure so much better. It is the next generation of transportation systems, and it would really be great if they started this project.

Harm National defense? I think you mean harm the empire's defense.

We could cut the DoD by a third and the nation would be just as secure. Some of the provinces might suffer but we never should have started meddling in lots of those places to begin with.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Provinces? A slip of the brain, Canuck?

China, Russia, North Korea, Iran and the terrorists support you wasting taxpayer money on green energy scams lining the pockets of liberals while you gut the national defense capabilities of the US which in turn harms the national defense of Europe and Asia.

Simpleminded twits like you think money grows on trees. If the Feds only threw some of that play money into high speed rail projects, etc.....the USA would be swimming in more money.

Uh, you take money from the private sector and put it into the public sector. So either you raise taxes on the private sector to get more play money to play with or you quit spending some of that play money on other things like the DoD or Obamacare.

Of course, your answer will be either raise taxes or cut up the DoD budget to spend that money on trains. Trains that people don't use like those things called airplanes. So harm national defense to create some so-called green jobs, nice plan twit.

FYI...the money spent on national defense gives a bigger bang for the buck than hiring construction workers to lay down railroad tracks.

Why not do what the previous administrations did and work on US infrastructure? Start up a project that would employ people that connects major cities and towns with data, shipping, and people traveling.

You could make a project to put High speed rail across the US, and couple large data and even power conduits along it. The present power system could be redone and made better.

Basically what i see is a web of high speed rail connections running between big cities. Along the rail system you would also run your power and data lines. This would create a lot of jobs and really make the US infrastructure so much better. It is the next generation of transportation systems, and it would really be great if they started this project.

Harm National defense? I think you mean harm the empire's defense.

We could cut the DoD by a third and the nation would be just as secure. Some of the provinces might suffer but we never should have started meddling in lots of those places to begin with.

 

[Darkwind]

How many millions a day are we spending in Iraq and Afghanistan? How many cities would love to take an hours worth of that money to boost up their coffers and not have to decimate someones pension?

Constitution of the United States - Official