Simple question. If you have a pie and you

[emilynghiem]

Bake another pie like Dems "bake" a bigger and wasteful governemnt.

I am an active Democrat and Constitutionalist who believes in teaching everyone to govern themselves independently to reduce govt burden and bureaucracy.

Maybe the first step in this whole pie exercise is to introduce ourselves, and what each we stand for and hope to achieve, so we can form teams with people with the same goals, and not mix up who belongs on what team. Before someone throws a pie in the wrong face!

 

[healthmyths]

want to have a larger piece of the PIE which way will increase the size of the piece for everyone?
A) taking a larger percentage or slice of the pie or
B) Increasing the size of the pie?

Simple question that your answer will show your level of compassion!

* Teach everyone to bake their own pies.

* Instead of fighting over the same pie, provide resources and education where everyone has equal access and opportunity to learn the process themselves, or to be part of team that can help them in the meantime.

* If the govt cannot handle the demand on education for everyone to become this independent in the creation and distribution of pies, then reward citizens and companies with tax breaks for providing education and services to help more people.

* Only if there is crime or corruption going on that is obstructing the free and equal access flow of resources through this system, should the govt step in and administer justice to correct the problem, and to invest any restitution from wrongdoers back into the system.

Absolutely GREAT IDEA!!!
Totally 100% great thinking!

NOW how about this...
check out MY free idea that with OBAMA NEVER PASs though! next thread called
Venture Capital Insurance Corporation!!!

 

[rightwinger]

want to have a larger piece of the PIE which way will increase the size of the piece for everyone?
A) taking a larger percentage or slice of the pie or
B) Increasing the size of the pie?

Simple question that your answer will show your level of compassion!

The answer is obviously to increase the size of the pie, which is why it is so concerning that the wealthy have been taking a larger slice of the pie without increasing the size of it. This is why the wealthy have seen their incomes and wealth rise to historic levels while the rest of America has seen theirs decrease.

"The wealthy" Who do you consider "the wealthy"?
The total wealth of the Forbes 400 wealthiest Americans is $1.700 trillion
Using return on investment of 25% the total revenue would be $425 billion.
OK Let's tax those bad boys at 50% Wow... $212.5 billion added to Tax Revenues!!!

Let's go after them OK!!!

Not too bad, and that is only taxing the top 400. Imagine if you taxed everyone making over $250 k

 

[emilynghiem]

Conservatives simply can't enjoy that pie at all unless they know working people are starving. It's a moral defect common to them. That's why they hate the Democratic pie-expanding policies so much. What good is having a lot of pie if you can't lord it over the people who have no pie? Conservatives will joyfully toss half of their own pie in the trash, so long as working people are forced to lose all their pie.

????

This sounds like what people are saying about Obama and rich Democrats.

I go along with the wise advice of investors who make millionaires out of people by NOT wasting any money, time or other resources. They are too busy helping other people not to depend on govt or economic deadlock. See this website http://www.luinc.com for an example of such investors that teach how to share the abundance mentality.

Whatever you described above is the opposite, or the "scarcity mentality" That fear of scarcity and victimhood is what keeps poor people poor -- not rich people growing more wealth by investing in providing services to help others which is the "abundance mentality."

Get this straight, it is very important to know the difference.
Or you will continue to surround yourself with negative thoughts and people
who keep you stuck in victimhood mode; and that is what Democrat powermongers abuse to exploit the votes of the poor minorities who envision themselves with no access to help.

Victim mentality and scarcity mentality, fear of other people controlling or oppressing you.
Look this up in contrast with abundance mentality.

 

[emilynghiem]

want to have a larger piece of the PIE which way will increase the size of the piece for everyone?
A) taking a larger percentage or slice of the pie or
B) Increasing the size of the pie?

Simple question that your answer will show your level of compassion!

* Teach everyone to bake their own pies.

* Instead of fighting over the same pie, provide resources and education where everyone has equal access and opportunity to learn the process themselves, or to be part of team that can help them in the meantime.

* If the govt cannot handle the demand on education for everyone to become this independent in the creation and distribution of pies, then reward citizens and companies with tax breaks for providing education and services to help more people.

* Only if there is crime or corruption going on that is obstructing the free and equal access flow of resources through this system, should the govt step in and administer justice to correct the problem, and to invest any restitution from wrongdoers back into the system.

Absolutely GREAT IDEA!!!
Totally 100% great thinking!

NOW how about this...
check out MY free idea that with OBAMA NEVER PASs though! next thread called
Venture Capital Insurance Corporation!!!

OK i will look for your thread. If your idea is good, you should be able to get support for it from individual citizens and party members who want to fund something other than ACA.
You may not need it to pass through Congress/Obama, there may be a way to set up local models for it, and have donors or investors write off the expenses from their taxes.

if there is a chance your proposal could meet or beat govt coverage proposed by ACA, maybe state leaders or reps could lobby for people to pay their 1500.00 fines into this program rather than the ACA, temporarily, until either one proven to work. If your program works as good or better, maybe taxpayers could fund that instead as a viable option to ACA.

 

[emilynghiem]

The key issue is who gets to decide how big a slice everyone gets. In the past thirty years, our economic policies have ensured that the wealthy get an ever increasing slice while the ability of the working class to get their slice has diminished

It all comes down to the golden rule....He who has the Gold makes the rules

Look up independent currency based on organizing local labor and businesses in a network:
Ithaca Hours - Local Currency - Ithaca, New York
http://www.ithacahours.com

It's a matter of who has KNOWLEDGE of the rules.
The KNOWLEDGE can be equally distributed, so that equal wealth and control can follow....

There is a difference in knowledge of the rules and having undue influence over those who make the rules

I agree there too.
And again there are RULES to check and balance "undue influence" to prevent it from denying equal due process, representation and redress of grievances. It's called the Constitution and amendments in the Bill of Rights and Fourteenth.

The "Golden Rule" that applies to ALL of us as human beings, whether we are at the top or bottom of govt/corporations or in the middle, is that if you COMMIT to "exercise and enforce" these laws, THAT is what gives anyone authority to hold the next person to do the same as a peer. That is call the law of reciprocity. We are equal under law. Only if we break this law by bullying over others can they bully back over us, which is still under the rule of reciprocity -- you get the justice you give.

People aren't taught this. We are taught how unequal the field is, but not how to even it out by enforcing laws equally across the board. Well that is the purpose of the Bill of Rights, to check collective authority/resources/influence from abuse to oppress the individual. So when we UNDERSTAND these laws apply to all of us, we can enforce them too. Instead of becoming pawns and victims of govt and elected leaders, hoping they will do this for us; we must accept equal responsibility if we want equal rights.

Whoever knows the rules, cannot be bought or sold with "gold."
We become equal under the law by enforcing these in agreement by mutual respect.

http://www.houstonprogressive.org/democalls.html

 

[Borillar]

Mmmmm, I like pie!

 

[rightwinger]

A CEO, a liberal and a conservative walk into a room. There are ten slices of pie on he table. Tne CEO takes nine and whispers to the conservative........Liberals trying to take your pie

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

want to have a larger piece of the PIE which way will increase the size of the piece for everyone?
A) taking a larger percentage or slice of the pie or
B) Increasing the size of the pie?

Simple question that your answer will show your level of compassion!

Well if it's a cherry pie this whole argument is moot.
Because I'm eating the whole MF'r screw everybody else!

 

[PixieStix]

Just print more pies


Erg, I mean bake more

Seriously why can't everyone just make their own pie, I mean good grief how do we know where their fingers have been?

 

[Moonglow]

want to have a larger piece of the PIE which way will increase the size of the piece for everyone?
A) taking a larger percentage or slice of the pie or
B) Increasing the size of the pie?

Simple question that your answer will show your level of compassion!

Got to eat a piece of pie to have the energy to make a bigger one.

Actually you don't HAVE to eat the whole piece of the pie to help make the pie grow bigger!
Unless you are a glutton and which you show your level of compassion for others!

Or if your rich, you eat all but 1% of the pie.

 

[emilynghiem]

A CEO, a liberal and a conservative walk into a room. There are ten slices of pie on he table. Tne CEO takes nine and whispers to the conservative........Liberals trying to take your pie

No, both the liberals and conservatives are arguing the other is hogging all the pie.
One group blames the poor, one blames the rich.
One blames the rich for depriving the poor, the other blames the poor for depriving the rich.

Then the mathematicians join the fight, blaming either the 1% the 47%,
or however you want to divide people into groups to argue and blame members of other %.

And the whole time, the media gets paid big bucks for airtime for all these folks to run ads
bashing each other, and ratings to incite as drawn out a catfight as they can orchestrate.

Meanwhile, people in India are starving, wishing they had such luxury not only to fight over the pie but to argue over the internet and media whose fault it is if the demand exceeds supply.

While Occupy people are protesting this whole system, costing 10 to 30 million in policing and clean up expenses that could have gone into saving Hostess jobs baking more pies....

 

[Ernie S.]

A CEO, a liberal and a conservative walk into a room. There are ten slices of pie on he table. Tne CEO takes nine and whispers to the conservative........Liberals trying to take your pie

Actually, the CEO takes just one piece, gives 2 to all the bakers, truck drivers, accountants, salesmen, the guys he buys flour, eggs, sugar apples and cinnamon from, trades one more for new ovens, so he can bake more pies and hire more bakers, truck drivers, accountants, salesmen and buy more flour, eggs, sugar, apples and cinnamon, and sells the other 6 so he can pay his mortgage, short term loans, pensions, Social Security and Medicare contributions, buy off a union thug or 2 and pay his taxes.
If you want him to give another slice away for free, something is going to change. Either he cuts corners by buying crappier apples, lays off a baker and a truck driver or contracts with a company in china to bake his pies.

 

[emilynghiem]

A CEO, a liberal and a conservative walk into a room. There are ten slices of pie on he table. Tne CEO takes nine and whispers to the conservative........Liberals trying to take your pie

Actually, the CEO takes just one piece, gives 2 to all the bakers, truck drivers, accountants, salesmen, the guys he buys flour, eggs, sugar apples and cinnamon from, trades one more for new ovens, so he can bake more pies and hire more bakers, truck drivers, accountants, salesmen and buy more flour, eggs, sugar, apples and cinnamon, and sells the other 6 so he can pay his mortgage, short term loans, pensions, Social Security and Medicare contributions, buy off a union thug or 2 and pay his taxes.
If you want him to give another slice away for free, something is going to change. Either he cuts corners by buying crappier apples, lays off a baker and a truck driver or contracts with a company in china to bake his pies.

Which is why Hostess is closing some plants and shifting work elsewhere, due to union pressure to demand conditions they can't sustain.

 

[healthmyths]

Say a business increases profits by a million dollars one year. The pie got bigger, right?

But what if the owners take 100% of the profits for themselves, and give zero to the workers?

WOW what a concept!!! Why should the workers get anything???

See? There is conservatism, as it relates to working class America.

WHY? Why not then give the bathroom supplies vendor a share of the profits?
Or how about the telephone or utility vendors?
An employee has agree to be present for a set number of hours in exchange or a paycheck!
NO MORE no less!

YeT most people like you have forgotten that!

It makes NO SENSE UNLESS there is a productive increase by the employee above what they are paid for!
AND that's reasonable. BUT just because the employee shows up for work DOESN"T MEAN they share in any profits!

How complicated is that? But because of this entitlement mentality people like you think YOU are OWED a share!
That is socialism!

 

[emilynghiem]

But because of this entitlement mentality people like you think YOU are OWED a share!
That is socialism!

Not to worry. This outrage over ACA and the election campaigns pitting the poor against the rich [and offering benefits to noncitizens while lawabiding citizens pay more than their share for others, instead of charging REAL criminals and wrongdoers with restitution to taxpayers], is giving everyone a crash course in economics, business and Constitutional education. We may not be teaching and learning fast enough to cap the damage being done, but at least people are engaging in discussion of this who never participated before. And it shows.

What cures anyone of this idealist notion that other people will pay for the programs, without accountability for who is costing and using the services, is trying to run a home or a school or business, where the people who get things for free have no motivation to give as long as other people are paying their way. It works in a charitable setting, where people are free to give and share by their own choice whether or not they are reimbursed, but not in a situation we have here where the people taking the services and getting benefits are not held accountable to the people paying for those services who DON'T have the choice of giving this charity, and DON'T have control of how the money is spent.

I wonder if anyone considered the idea of the payments into the system being "loans," where if you don't use the benefits, then you get credits back and you can subtract from other costs you need to pay instead. If people kept track of the benefits they get at the expense of others, maybe a work-study program could be set up where people work off their debts by doing physical labor to rebuild infrastructure for public use, or research and fundraising to help the govt collect on damages and debts from REAL crime or corruption to pay taxmoney back and cover the costs of social services.