“show me your papers law”

[Jackson]

If I get stopped by a police officer, I know I should have a drivers license and proof of insurance. That doesn't mean I'm guilty of anything, it just means I will be asked for it. If I might appear I was illegal or an immigrant and asked my status, I would carry a passport or papers to insure there was no misunderstanding. It is just common sense.

The problem arises when I might be illegal and want to avoid the police asking the questions. Then I object, just as those on this board may do.

 

[Sweet Willy]

If I get stopped by a police officer, I know I should have a drivers license and proof of insurance. That doesn't mean I'm guilty of anything, it just means I will be asked for it. If I might appear I was illegal or an immigrant and asked my status, I would carry a passport or papers to insure there was no misunderstanding. It is just common sense.

The problem arises when I might be illegal and want to avoid the police asking the questions. Then I object, just as those on this board may do.

Two very different things you are equating here.

Driving a car is a privilege. It is not a right. You can be asked to demonstrate a privilege. You do not have to demonstrate a right. Your rights are demonstrated by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. You have the right to be free of illegal searches and seizures. You have the right to "look" anyway you want. I don't know what this thing of "looking illegal" is. Is it the same as looking Mexican? Hispanic? Native American?

You, nor anyone else can look at someone and have anymore idea that someone is illegal than just playing the odds. You can know that x% of Hispanics are illegal. But that is not reasonable suspicion under the law. In fact, it is expressly against the law. You can know that x% of whites are responsible for white collar crimes. Do we send the police in to randomly check Wall Street offices?

This "looks illegal" thing demonstrates part of the problem. It is NOT common sense to think you can look at someone and know their status to be in the country.

 

[Rozman]

When this was getting news coverage because of the Arizona law the President gave a speech.
He said the law would allow the police to go up to a family on line buying ice cream and he would be
able to pull them out of line and demand their papers.

Not one person in the media said the President was lying.
Unbelievable.

And the left wonders why the right feel the media is in the tank for Obama...


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003600-503544.html

 

[Sweet Willy]

When this was getting news coverage because of the Arizona law the President gave a speech.
He said the law would allow the police to go up to a family on line buying ice cream and he would be
able to pull them out of line and demand their papers.

Not one person in the media said the President was lying.
Unbelievable.

And the left wonders why the right feel the media is in the tank for Obama...


Obama Again Hits Arizona Immigration Bill - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Regardless of anything President Obama might have said, any law requiring people to carry proof of identity is, under current US law and precedent, unconstitutional. Period. Now, that can change, but it will take a SCOTUS case to over turn Hiibel. As it stands, you are only required to verbally state your name to police.

That is the short truth of the matter. We don't require people to carry proof of their rights around with them. There are much larger things at stake here than this largely ethnic driven debate. There is no reason to even go the route of touching one word of the constitution or coming anywhere near causing one single American citizen to ever be caught up in a trap for not carrying papers around. Fine heavily and / or imprison employers of illegals and this all ends quickly, these people begin to file out of the country on their own dime and we don't have to have this federal show down over the constitutionality of using gestapo tactics based on skin tones and ethnic cues. Employers can make you carry papers into the job interview and it doesn't come anywhere near the constitution. They can make you speak 100% conversational English and it doesn't come anywhere near the constitution.

These employers are the reason for the vast majority of the illegals here. Why is there any reason to do anything but go the easy, cheap and effective route first? There is no good reason not to. The biggest reason assholes want to do all this other crap is because of anti - Hispanic feelings and pure masochistic tendencies. They want revenge and blood shed and punitive actions.... they could really care less about doing this the easy and responsible way, they'll gladly go the long way around just to see the show.

 

[MikeK]

I remember when Republicans were all advocating that before getting medical care you had to prove you were a citizen. Image if they were succful in passing that if you were bleading out they couldn t save your life because you might not be an American

There is a big difference between medical care and emergency medical treatment. The cost of providing even the most basic medical care to an endless stream of illegal aliens has already caused the bankruptcy and closing of several American hospitals in the border states.

So although I generally oppose Republican positions I am solidly behind them in this regard. It is hard-nosed common sense. We simply cannot afford to continue the practice of providing medical care to illegal aliens. But that does not mean we should not treat another human who is severely injured.

 

[starcraftzzz]

I remember when Republicans were all advocating that before getting medical care you had to prove you were a citizen. Image if they were succful in passing that if you were bleading out they couldn t save your life because you might not be an American

There is a big difference between medical care and emergency medical treatment. The cost of providing even the most basic medical care to an endless stream of illegal aliens has already caused the bankruptcy and closing of several American hospitals in the border states.

So although I generally oppose Republican positions I am solidly behind them in this regard. It is hard-nosed common sense. We simply cannot afford to continue the practice of providing medical care to illegal aliens. But that does not mean we should not treat another human who is severely injured.

Only dumbass republicans and yourself think letting someone die on the table because we dont know if they are American citznes is a common sense policy

 

[starcraftzzz]

If it is possible for an illegal alien to obtain a drivers license it might be at the root of the problem. I don't imagine you could get a drivers license if you were illegally in any other freaking country in the world. What is it about the word "illegal" that liberals fail to understand?

You mean liberals like Reagan who granted them amnesty?

I am against all illegal immigration and they should all be deported.

Also those who knowingly hire illegals should be punished HARD!
Including prison and suspension of business liscences.

So you want to spend 300billion dollar deporting all illegals which will decrease economic activity by 3trillion. So bascialy you want to spend money in order to make America poorer

 

[Sweet Willy]

Interestingly enough..... you know who signed the bill into law that made emergency care for everyone federal law? Ahem..... Ronald Reagan.

In 1986 the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor law was signed into law by Ronald Reagan. Same guy who gave amnesty to 5 million illegals and gave rise to the flood we've had since, waiting for the next amnesty. Meanwhile, Reagan mandated universal medical care for all.... but forgot to PAY FOR IT. The law required that EVERYONE BE ADMITTED without regard to ability to pay.

These TWO THINGS are now two of the biggest issues in the country with Republicans screaming bloody murder about them..... and praising that idiot Reagan out of the other side of their mouths. That dumb ass gave us these problems 25 years ago and now that we have to deal with the results, it all gets laid squarely on the democrats.

 

[LilOlLady]

Millions of older Americans were born at home with the help of a midwife. They have no birth certificate. It's not required in the constitution. That document Republicans claim to love.

Even a midwife delivery a birth is required to be recorded.
Jesus's birth was recorded.
Who would not want their child's birth recorded?

 

[MikeK]

I remember when Republicans were all advocating that before getting medical care you had to prove you were a citizen. Image if they were succful in passing that if you were bleading out they couldn t save your life because you might not be an American

There is a big difference between medical care and emergency medical treatment. The cost of providing even the most basic medical care to an endless stream of illegal aliens has already caused the bankruptcy and closing of several American hospitals in the border states.

So although I generally oppose Republican positions I am solidly behind them in this regard. It is hard-nosed common sense. We simply cannot afford to continue the practice of providing medical care to illegal aliens. But that does not mean we should not treat another human who is severely injured.

Only dumbass republicans and yourself think letting someone die on the table because we dont know if they are American citznes is a common sense policy

What exactly do you mean by "die on the table?" And how does it fit or conflict with what I've said about emergency treatment?

 

[ThinkCritically]

That is what Lawrence O’Donnell call Arizona’s anti-illegal immigration law.

1. You are obviously scared of the minority group that took over your community.

2. This law will not change the fact that many of those minorities are now legal citizens and will not be forced out of your community.

3. My wife is a minority, and I don't want to have to put up with stupid racist cops harassing her.

 

[ThinkCritically]

The last thing this country needs is to cut off its supply of weak, tired, huddled masses. After all they built this great nation. News flash also, your descendants where once todays mexicans. Rejected and spat upon by those who came here before them.

 

[Artevelde]

The last thing this country needs is to cut off its supply of weak, tired, huddled masses. After all they built this great nation. News flash also, your descendants where once todays mexicans. Rejected and spat upon by those who came here before them.

I have yet to hear anybodu argue for stopping all immigration to the US. The question is about stopping illiegal immigration.

 

[Barb]

from 2006:

Papiere, Bitte (Papers, Please)

It doesn’t seem to have occurred to the author (or to Tony Blair and his supporters, for that matter), that as a government becomes more and more oppressive, people have more and more reason not to want to be identified by it, indeed, to have their government know nothing whatever about them. For as a government more and more prohibits behavior that is both peaceful and advantageous to people, and more and more compels behavior that is against the interests of people, there will necessarily be more and more violations of its ever growing body of laws and regulations. In such circumstances, the easier it is for the government to identify and find the violators, the more effective is its oppression. By the same token, the less the government knows about its citizens, the greater is their freedom from it and thus the greater their ability to pursue their happiness.

Nothing to see here...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ9BzwtTG-k&feature=related]Can I see your papers...Please? - YouTube[/ame]


from 2012:

Papers, Please!

his just in from the “All international travelers are suspected terrorists” department:

In response to questions (see the video at approx. 37:00-38:30) from members of a House Homeland Security subcommittee during a hearing yesterday, DHS Deputy Counter-Terrorism Coordinator John Cohen said that, as part of the Orwellianly-named “Secure Communities” program, local police will soon be receiving the result of a check of DHS international travel logs, automatically, for every person arrested anywhere in the US for even a minor offense. Local police will be able to run checks of travel records for “nonoffenders” — innocent people — as well.

According to one report:

Soon, it will be as easy for any local law enforcement officer anywhere in the US to run a “TECS check” of these records about you as it is today for them to run a check of your criminal record from NCIC. Except that the records in TECS are records of your exercise of First Amendment rights of freedom of assembly, not records of criminal convictions.

Or should we be asking if the DHS now thinks that foreign travel has become tantamount to a crime?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma24n--5TZM&feature=related]Your Papers Please- Must See - YouTube[/ame]

 

[whitehall]

Driver's license are state issued. Here in SC and NC, you must have a SS card to get a license. Perhaps a TIN will do, but I'm not sure of where the idea comes from that illegals can get a DL. Maybe some states allow it... but I don't know about those states.

What I'm saying is that everyone has to produce a license and sometimes a valid insurance card if he or she is stopped by the Police while driving a car. If an illegal alien is stopped while driving a car without a license he gets arrested and a record check is done. So what's the problem?

 

[The Infidel]

I abhor the idea that we need …”papers” to prove anything. But, I equally abhor the huge numbers of illegal aliens that have dishonest intentions and are abusing and manipulating the weak immigration system America has for less than honorable reasons. Something has to be done. Sad that it should come to this.

But it has, and we need to deal with it now.... as in ASAP.

 

[Mr. President]

Why is it a big deal that Identification is required? It's like no I'm not asking you for your id because you look illegal I'm asking you for your id because I am an officer of the law and I want to document the person I am speaking too about said violation.

 

[MaryL]

The last thing this country needs is to cut off its supply of weak, tired, huddled masses. After all they built this great nation. News flash also, your descendants where once todays mexicans. Rejected and spat upon by those who came here before them.

You deserve a candy cane for being a total ignoramus. My great grandparents BOTH managed to immigrate legally. They managed to encourage their offspring to appreciate and acclimate American culture. NEWSFLASH? What is that supposed to mean? ThinkCriticaly, apparently your ancestors did the same. Illegal aliens are a total antithetic to folks like...US. You are out of touch with reality here, kiddo. Immigrants respect and acclimate, Illegal aliens are doing neither. You are a little out of touch with reality. friend. There is a HUGE difference between sneaking lying conniving illegal aliens and honest "IMIGRANTS". Those that confuse the two are sad and deluded.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Why is it a big deal that Identification is required? It's like no I'm not asking you for your id because you look illegal I'm asking you for your id because I am an officer of the law and I want to document the person I am speaking too about said violation.

And as soon as the officer can articulate what that violation is or may be, he can ask you to identify yourself all day long. That is not the problem.

The problem is trying to get to the point where failure to have ID justifies detention. Much like the person RIDING in the car, who is often asked for ID during a traffic stop. If he isn't DRIVING and the reason for the stop is a traffic violation, the passengers haven't done anything wrong, there is no violation on them. No legal grounds to identify.

This all gets back to whether or not we are ready to have cops pulling you out of the ice cream line and asking you for ID in front of your kids and your family. If you've never been in that situation, maybe you can't or don't understand what it's like to be a perfectly honest, legal Citizen with some asshole with a gun and a badge bearing down on you because he gets his jollies off being the boss of the weak, the young and the ignorant. I have been there too many times back in the day when I had enough hair to wear it long. And THAT was enough to make about half the cops I encountered decided to FUCK with me because they thought it was FUN or right or completely justified to think that someone who doesn't share their sense of a good hair cut might also be a criminal. I am not a criminal, never have been and I WILL NOT lie down and be treated as a potential criminal for a fashion decision, my skin tone or the accent I speak with.

 

[Mr. President]

The last thing this country needs is to cut off its supply of weak, tired, huddled masses. After all they built this great nation. News flash also, your descendants where once todays mexicans. Rejected and spat upon by those who came here before them.

You deserve a candy cane for being a total ignoramus. My great grandparents BOTH managed to immigrate legally. They managed to encourage their offspring to appreciate and acclimate American culture. NEWSFLASH? What is that supposed to mean? ThinkCriticaly, apparently your ancestors did the same. Illegal aliens are a total antithetic to folks like...US. You are out of touch with reality here, kiddo. Immigrants respect and acclimate, Illegal aliens are doing neither. You are a little out of touch with reality. friend.

You deserve a response. Shut the hell up idiot. That is all.