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Originally posted by Isaac Brock
But in comparisons to other countries, you still are. The standard of living for the working poor is much higher than most other nations. Being poor isn't great, but it could be worse someplace else.
Originally posted by alan1234567890
if you have no insurance$ 5000 might as well be $5,000,000 and thats what you dont get. and dont tell me to get a job i got one.
Originally posted by alan1234567890
if you have no insurance$ 5000 might as well be $5,000,000 and thats what you dont get. and dont tell me to get a job i got one.
Originally posted by Isaac Brock
But in comparison to other countries, you still are rich. The standard of living for the working poor is much higher than most other nations.
Originally posted by alan1234567890
issack thankyou for you input. in the u.s 4 million people have no insurance. and so many more have sub rate insurance. What canada has would be much better then what we have now. i wish i could be canadian, i like your gun laws to. i dont think the us is the greatest as we like to say heres to canada.
Originally posted by Bern80
Uuuhh, I think you missed the point. If you don't have a job I can see how $5,000 might seem like a lot. However I did say that was an arbitrary figure. If you do have a job that isn't that much. Most people don't use any where near $5,000 in health care a year. Hell i can afford that stretched over a year and I only make $7/hr. And since I do only make that much, actually I do get it.
If you can't afford that get a BETTER job.
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
while that may work for you, there are others who are not as fortunate. I've seen people have to spend 5,000 a year, Just on medications, let alone all the visits to specialists for an illness that is in no way their fault.
Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Isaac, man. the people on welfare in the u.s. still have cars and tvs. It'd make you sick if you knew how much people worked the system here. But it's not your system, so you may just find it only interesting in passing.
What's the real deal with the weed situation in canada? Sounds like it's all over the place if you listen to Shrub and his boys. Yes I refer to bush as Shrub in the context of the war on drugs, it's a bad policy.
Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Is their illness someone else's fault?
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
lets say its not. would we be a better society and nation to join together and help those having serious issues medically or would we be a better society saying 'tough shit, its not my problem?'
Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I think people should choose their own avenues of charitable giving. Forced "altruism" has all the compassion of a jackboot in the face.
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
and in todays society a 'jackboot in the face' is the only thing people in need will see. we are, without a doubt, some of the most selfish and stingiest people on the planet. but hey, better that than forced altruism.
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Originally posted by Bern80
I debate this issue endlessly w/ some of my liberal friends. In know way do I support free health care for all. This is for many reasons.
First and foremost: No, you do not have the RIGHT to free health care.
Some people argue that it is unfair that some people can't afford health care when they need it and therefore it should be made free to them. I look at from the perspective of the person that does pay for their own health care. Is it fair that I pay for your health care on top of my own? No.
The second problem is an economic one. If you make something cheaper or free people will consume more of it. That is a certainty. I strongly challenge Isaac's assertion that all Canadians get treated WHEN they need to. Economically it just isn't acccurate.
Finally, In the words of Joe Soucheray, there is a simple linking problem here. Liberals can't seem to make the link that free health care or lack of it is not the problem here. Did know one ask themselves why we need free health care in the first place? My question/solution would be to address why American's are so unhealthy that the issue of free health care would even come up.
I have debated solutions endlessly about this. My solution, albeit highly idealistic, would be instead of employers dictating health plans to their employees that they take certain percentage of a paycheck and devote it solely to a private, interest bearing, account, the money in it would be yours and yours alone. This is just an arbitrary number, but say $5,000 a year. The money can only be used on physicians, but for what ever you want. After ten years you've accumulated enough for a boob job and you want to use for that, fine. Or just spend it as you need it. At the end of each year 75% or so of what's in the account is takin out to help pay for the next year.
It's a rough idea, but I think it would provide a good balance of the security that liberals want and the individual resonsibility that conservatives want. [/B]
Originally posted by Isaac Brock
I'll challenge you back on that one. There are waits, but if it needs to be done, it will. There are not floods of ill on the street or people with stab wounds dying at hospital doorsteps. Of course one could point to cases where the system fails, but generally it is currently inconvenient, but it works.
By the way, health care is a right, if people decide it is a right, such as Canada. Just like bearing arms is a right, if the people decide it is a right, like the USA. Though it may seem unfair to you, which i can see, it is apart of the social contract we've bought into and still buy into.
Economically debating public healthcare is fair game and your points, valid. However, there have been studies (search for the Romanow report in Canada), about the costs of converting our healthcare to a private system. In Canada, the jury is still out, though I will freely admitt it'd be tough and mostly likely impractical to insitute such a system in the US.
