CDZ Should Yale University be closed?...it was founded by an actual slave seller....

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by 2aguy, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. MikeK
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    MikeK Gold Member

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    You've raised an interesting point. That point being the practice of slavery, while condemned as barbarically cruel by current standards, was regarded very differently in the distant past. Philosophical notions of personal freedom, equality, and civil rights did not always inhabit our social attitudes but are relatively recent concepts having occurred via generation after generation of civilized progress. In fact, if the human species manages to survive for another few centuries it is fairly certain that historians of the future will look upon many of our current social practices and policies as no less barbaric than slavery.

    Consider how many contemporary minimum-wage occupations occur as closely similar to enslavement. And consider the barbaric cruelty which is the practice of long term penal confinement for such victimless offenses as narcotics possession and sale, and so on. What seems acceptable today will not seem so tomorrow -- and the same may be said for the practice of slavery back in Yale's time. While he may have been a sonofabitch in humanistic terms what he did was socially acceptable.
     
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  2. BULLDOG
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    BULLDOG Platinum Member

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    That's nice. It has nothing to do with the subject, but that's OK.
     
  3. Dale Smith
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    Dale Smith Gold Member

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    I was just replying to your comment of "Those statues represent people who went to war against the United States to protect slavery. If any of them have something to honor them for other than being an enemy combatant, I'm pretty sure their statue won't come down".

    My contentions and that of the OP is where is the line drawn when it comes to eradicating the history of human slavery? Who decides where that line is drawn? When will the statute of Albert Pike be taken down in the public square of Washington D.C? I mean, he was one of the founders of the KKK whose power structure was based on Scottish Rite Freemasonry AND he was a confederate general. I can't believe that his statute remains in such a prominent place. I mean, why go after the little fish of what is the legacy of fighting for the institution of slavery while the biggest "fish" sits in D.C???? It's a perplexing issue to me......
     
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  4. BULLDOG
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    BULLDOG Platinum Member

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    You expect me to believe that the people opposed to those statues coming down were motivated by the fear that we might forget the shame and horror of slavery? We both know better than that. Those statues were put up to honor those people, and as long as they remain displayed on public property they serve the same purpose. The country has moved past the point of honoring people willing to go to war with the US to protect the right of one man to own another and buy or sell him ,his wife, and his children, together or separately at will. The right to use them as a tool, sexually or otherwise, with no repercussions. Slavery will not be forgotten, but it's advocates do not deserve public honor. Put the statues in a museum where anyone interested can see them when they want.
     
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  5. Dale Smith
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    Dale Smith Gold Member

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    Nope, what I am saying is that the most despicable statute of what oppression and slavery represents sits in the public square of Washington, DC. Why is one of the founders of the KKK and a Confederate General so prominently displayed in the capitol city and no one says a word about it?

    You want to know what I believe to be a fact? Is that all this "take down any memory of the war between the states" is being done so it can be used as a wedge issue....but the biggest symbol of racism and oppression like that of the bust of Albert Pike will remain and the joke is on the sheeple. Why is Albert Pike such a revered part of history? Because his book "Morals and Dogma" is considered the bible of Scottish Rite Freemasonry and the majority of our politicians are high degree'd freemasons. The high degree'd freemason blacks belong to the Boule' society which is why those like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton never utter a word of condemnation of that statute of Albert Pike. I would personally destroy it if I could....but you just wait and see if they don't protect it.......
     
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  6. BULLDOG
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    BULLDOG Platinum Member

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    Don't know anything about Albert Pike. I do know a few Masons. There are hundreds, or possibly thousands of Confederate statues around the country. Perhaps that one statue might be one of the last taken down, or even never taken down. That's no reason why all the others should be left up to honor a shameful part of our history. Again, it's not erasing that era of the country it's just not honoring the enemy combattants any more.
     
  7. Dale Smith
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    Dale Smith Gold Member

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    The Blue lodge freemasons are a good sort.....they are pillars of their community which is why the Jacobins infiltrated the lodges back in the 1780's because the most revered and influential members of any community were freemasons. I totally agree with you...slavery and the aftermath of it even when blacks were allegedly declared "free" is one of the biggest shames of this country...I won't argue with you over that for even a second. What I am saying is that the cause and effect goes deeper than most know or understand. What I am saying is that the statute of Albert Pike, one of the most despicable characters of the 19th century that was behind the lynching and whipping of former slaves even to death will remain untouched and that will always disgust me.
     
  8. BULLDOG
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    Again, I know nothing about Pike, but if what you say is true, I will be disgusted too. Plenty of other statues of people unworthy of honor in the mean time.
     
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  9. JQPublic1
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    JQPublic1 Gold Member

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    Then why don't you go tear it down?
    The rest of us wll focus on removing the offensive icons of confederate traitors...who LOST.
     
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  10. Dale Smith
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    Dale Smith Gold Member

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    I will not argue with you on that either but I believe that this country has come a long way in how we treat each other and I don't believe it has as much to do with government intervention as I do people becoming educated and being raised the right way. I will give you an example of it. My dad was a cop in Amarillo, Texas from the mid 60's until 1971 when an intruder entered our home when he was working graveyard...but I digress. It was the fall of 1970 when we were eating at a hamburger place like Sonic where they brought the food out to you on trays that hung from the car window...they were huge back in the day. Two young black kids came up to order food and this disgusting excuse for a human being told them "We don't serve "n---ggers here". There was a group of high school aged kids sitting at a picnic table drinking cokes that also started razzing them. My dad (whom wasn't the biggest guy you ever saw but tough as nails) took the tray and handed it to my mom and got out of the car and went to the window but before he got there, he flashed his badge to the high schoolers and you could have heard a mouse fart after that. He told the lady at the window to serve these two young folks and right away. I still remember him pointing his finger in her face and emphatically stating that their fair establishment was going to be in some deep shit and come the next day he would be filing a report on Manley's Drive-In. You never saw people moving so fast in your life. My dad stuck around until they got their order (which was on the house) and made sure that they went on their way safely. I was nearly seven at the time but I understood and I was very proud of my dad for doing the right thing. One time when I was older I reminded him of that, he said "I didn't do anything special...I simply honored my oath as a defender of the people that I swore to do". That was 47 years ago and we have made great strides but I have seen the "race issue" used as a diversionary tool as well as others like economic, political and even state lines so we never see the ones pulling the strings.
     

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