Should We Kill The Fed?

[mash107]

Who should control it?

The same forces that feed, clothe and shelter us. The market.

Great. How do I print myself ten million dollars under your system.

sorry?

 

[Iriemon]

The same forces that feed, clothe and shelter us. The market.

Great. How do I print myself ten million dollars under your system.

sorry?

Sorry, I was being cute.

Please explain your proposed system where the money supply is not controlled by the Govt or central bank. How does the market control the amount of dollars in currency.

 

[neurosport]

since you're so smart, tell me - what do we need these fucking shareholders for ?

the question was not who they are or how much they make. the question was WHY DO WE NEED THEM ?

i'm listening ?

No, the question was whether the Fed was a private corporation.

i know what my question was ...

YOU'RE USELESS !

 

[neurosport]

Since 1913, the US has become the unquestioned world economic power, with an overal growth record and standard of living most every one else envies.

So if that is the Fed's fault, we should all say thank you Fed very much and thank you Congres for creating it.

in fact yes we should thank the Fed for starting both world wars that FED ( and US ) profiteered from.

FED was created in 1913

WW1 started in 1914

 

[Iriemon]

the question was not who they are or how much they make. the question was WHY DO WE NEED THEM ?

i'm listening ?

No, the question was whether the Fed was a private corporation.

i know what my question was silly ...

YOU'RE USELESS !

You defended that the Fed was a private bank or corporation. You even claimed that Bernanke owned the Fed, an assertion you have failed to back up despite two requests. I have establisehd otherwise with citations to statutes.

Your opinion noted. I disagree. Others can decide for themselves whose useless.

 

[Iriemon]

Since 1913, the US has become the unquestioned world economic power, with an overal growth record and standard of living most every one else envies.

So if that is the Fed's fault, we should all say thank you Fed very much and thank you Congres for creating it.

in fact yes we should thank the Fed for starting both world wars that FED ( and US ) profiteered from.

FED was created in 1913

WW1 started in 1914

LOL -- the Fed started the world war in 1914 a year after it was established in 1913. And it wasn't Hitler who started WWII, it was the Fed! The Fed is responsible for every downturn but not for the unparalleled growth this country has had since it was established. The Fed is owned by bankers including Bernanke who use it to keep the rest of us improverished.

Any other "useful" gems of wisdom you want to enlighten us about the Fed?

 

[neurosport]

You even claimed that Bernanke owned the Fed

have you recently seen a doctor ? hallucinations are not normal you know ...

LOL -- the Fed started the world war in 1914 a year after it was established in 1913. And it wasn't Hitler who started WWII, it was the Fed! The Fed is responsible for every downturn but not for the unparalleled growth this country has had since it was established. The Fed is owned by bankers including Bernanke who use it to keep the rest of us improverished.

there is absolutely no need to keep putting words into my mouth.

thank you !

 

[mash107]

Great. How do I print myself ten million dollars under your system.

sorry?

Sorry, I was being cute.

Please explain your proposed system where the money supply is not controlled by the Govt or central bank. How does the market control the amount of dollars in currency.

What's to explain? Free market competition leads to the best, most honest currency. The equilibrium of supply and demand gives you the quantity in supply. People would have the freedom to use any or multiple currencies, just like some Europeans countries did when the Euro was introduced. Of course, with the internet, currency competition could be global. Ultimately, the result would be that the bankers lose their monopoly control over currency and the people would win gaining a stable currency. No more credit expansions that have to collapse that we all have to suffer through, because we'd all have a choice.

What you asked is analogous to someone in the Politburo asking, "Please explain how your proposed system intends to feed people that isn't controlled by us. How does the market control the amount of food in the stores?"

 

[Iriemon]

sorry?

Sorry, I was being cute.

Please explain your proposed system where the money supply is not controlled by the Govt or central bank. How does the market control the amount of dollars in currency.

What's to explain? Free market competition leads to the best, most honest currency. The equilibrium of supply and demand gives you the quantity in supply. People would have the freedom to use any or multiple currencies, just like some Europeans countries did when the Euro was introduced. Of course, with the internet, currency competition could be global. Ultimately, the result would be that the bankers lose their monopoly control over currency and the people would win gaining a stable currency. No more credit expansions that have to collapse that we all have to suffer through, because we'd all have a choice.

What you asked is analogous to someone in the Politburo asking, "Please explain how your proposed system intends to feed people that isn't controlled by us. How does the market control the amount of food in the stores?"

The first question I'd have is: who produces the food?

So the first quesiton I have for your proposed system is: Who produces the dollar?

 

[ItsFairmont]

The true measure of wealth is and always will be tangible assets. It might be lumber, water, etc., and of course land and gold.


Dollars are simply pieces of paper that have no real value until traded for something, and the Federal Reserve can simply wipe out its value instantly, leaving you with a wallet full of empty paper.

But land and gold don't dissolve.

You will always prosper if you put your savings into something YOU control.

 

[mash107]

Sorry, I was being cute.

Please explain your proposed system where the money supply is not controlled by the Govt or central bank. How does the market control the amount of dollars in currency.

What's to explain? Free market competition leads to the best, most honest currency. The equilibrium of supply and demand gives you the quantity in supply. People would have the freedom to use any or multiple currencies, just like some Europeans countries did when the Euro was introduced. Of course, with the internet, currency competition could be global. Ultimately, the result would be that the bankers lose their monopoly control over currency and the people would win gaining a stable currency. No more credit expansions that have to collapse that we all have to suffer through, because we'd all have a choice.

What you asked is analogous to someone in the Politburo asking, "Please explain how your proposed system intends to feed people that isn't controlled by us. How does the market control the amount of food in the stores?"

The first question I'd have is: who produces the food?

So the first quesiton I have for your proposed system is: Who produces the dollar?

The farmers.

The banks.

Nothing changes except who controls the production, and how much competition there is.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If we are going to use that as the standard, before 1913 the US still had sever economic cycles, that is nothing new.

Since 1913, the US has become the unquestioned world economic power, with an overal growth record and standard of living most every one else envies.

So if that is the Fed's fault, we should all say thank you Fed very much and thank you Congres for creating it.

Why then anyone would want to screw up what has been a tremendous success is beyond me.

We still had the business cycle before the Fed was established because of the two Banks of America, and because the federal government couldn't stop themselves from intervening in the market.

So its not the Fed's fault, it's the Govt's fault.

If we eliminate the Fed, we'll still have the Govt.

The only difference is that rather than the money supply being in the hands of an independent body, the same idiots that could not manage a balanced budget more than once over the past 40 years and have borrowed us $11 trillion into debt will have the power of creating money.

I don't share your apparent confidence that that would somehow lead to an improvement.

Then the people who made the economic decisions would be held accountable to the taxpayers instead of a bunch of un-elected bankers.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You guys are literally making each others' points now.

One says, "The economy grew in spite of (or because of) the Fed, and another says, "There were downturns before and after the creation of the Fed.


That just shows that the Fed is unnecessary.

What are we going to all lay down and die without a Federal Reserve?


Nope.

I could not disagree more. The Fed is absolutely necessary.
The value of out currency needs to be based upon its relation to other currencies, not to 1913.
Or to the Middle Ages.

The entire OP and argument is pointless, purely academic.
The Fed is not going to be closed down, its authority will increase dramatically.
Regulations are not going to be rescinded or ignored.
We are in a More Regulation, "Uncle Sam, SAVE us !" phase in the markets,
across the board, and will be for some time.

You know that.

The Fed is only necessary if you're interested in continuing the business cycle and debasing the currency, otherwise it's time to get rid of the Fed and return to sound money.

 

[Iriemon]

What's to explain? Free market competition leads to the best, most honest currency. The equilibrium of supply and demand gives you the quantity in supply. People would have the freedom to use any or multiple currencies, just like some Europeans countries did when the Euro was introduced. Of course, with the internet, currency competition could be global. Ultimately, the result would be that the bankers lose their monopoly control over currency and the people would win gaining a stable currency. No more credit expansions that have to collapse that we all have to suffer through, because we'd all have a choice.

What you asked is analogous to someone in the Politburo asking, "Please explain how your proposed system intends to feed people that isn't controlled by us. How does the market control the amount of food in the stores?"

The first question I'd have is: who produces the food?

So the first quesiton I have for your proposed system is: Who produces the dollar?

The farmers.

The banks.

Nothing changes except who controls the production, and how much competition there is.

LOL -- which leads me back to my first comment. How do I print my million dollars?

If banks can print up money, that would be a great gig for them. I don't know how you think that would give the bankers less control of the universe than some think they have now, or how that would lead to a stable money supply.

 

[Iriemon]

You guys are literally making each others' points now.

One says, "The economy grew in spite of (or because of) the Fed, and another says, "There were downturns before and after the creation of the Fed.


That just shows that the Fed is unnecessary.

What are we going to all lay down and die without a Federal Reserve?


Nope.

I could not disagree more. The Fed is absolutely necessary.
The value of out currency needs to be based upon its relation to other currencies, not to 1913.
Or to the Middle Ages.

The entire OP and argument is pointless, purely academic.
The Fed is not going to be closed down, its authority will increase dramatically.
Regulations are not going to be rescinded or ignored.
We are in a More Regulation, "Uncle Sam, SAVE us !" phase in the markets,
across the board, and will be for some time.

You know that.

The Fed is only necessary if you're interested in continuing the business cycle and debasing the currency, otherwise it's time to get rid of the Fed and return to sound money.

I think we already have your opinon on the Fed, thanks. What's your proposal for an alternative.

 

[Iriemon]

We still had the business cycle before the Fed was established because of the two Banks of America, and because the federal government couldn't stop themselves from intervening in the market.

So its not the Fed's fault, it's the Govt's fault.

If we eliminate the Fed, we'll still have the Govt.

The only difference is that rather than the money supply being in the hands of an independent body, the same idiots that could not manage a balanced budget more than once over the past 40 years and have borrowed us $11 trillion into debt will have the power of creating money.

I don't share your apparent confidence that that would somehow lead to an improvement.

Then the people who made the economic decisions would be held accountable to the taxpayers instead of a bunch of un-elected bankers.

Ha! That has sure stopped them from running up trillions in debt!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I could not disagree more. The Fed is absolutely necessary.
The value of out currency needs to be based upon its relation to other currencies, not to 1913.
Or to the Middle Ages.

The entire OP and argument is pointless, purely academic.
The Fed is not going to be closed down, its authority will increase dramatically.
Regulations are not going to be rescinded or ignored.
We are in a More Regulation, "Uncle Sam, SAVE us !" phase in the markets,
across the board, and will be for some time.

You know that.

The Fed is only necessary if you're interested in continuing the business cycle and debasing the currency, otherwise it's time to get rid of the Fed and return to sound money.

I think we already have your opinon on the Fed, thanks. What's your proposal for an alternative.

It's not an opinion that the Fed debases the currency and creates the business cycle, those would be facts. My proposal would be to return to the gold standard and allow the free market to operate.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So its not the Fed's fault, it's the Govt's fault.

If we eliminate the Fed, we'll still have the Govt.

The only difference is that rather than the money supply being in the hands of an independent body, the same idiots that could not manage a balanced budget more than once over the past 40 years and have borrowed us $11 trillion into debt will have the power of creating money.

I don't share your apparent confidence that that would somehow lead to an improvement.

Then the people who made the economic decisions would be held accountable to the taxpayers instead of a bunch of un-elected bankers.

Ha! That has sure stopped them from running up trillions in debt!

Better than a group of unelected bankers.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Must confess it is always amusing to hear ad hominem attacks on business around the words evil and such. They seem to be expressed most forcefully by people of the left who do not seem to want to recognize the appalling history of leftist movements in the world. They also do not take into account how completely in bed both parties have been with business, forever. Nothing more or less happens in this relationship but ebb and flow. What bothers me is the cynicism of it.

But you folks who want to bring the system down or whatever, I would like to hear one(1), solid, implementable concept you have that would accomplish that goal while at the same doing no harm to the well being of society and the economy upon which it depends.

Be my guest.

 

[Iriemon]

The Fed is only necessary if you're interested in continuing the business cycle and debasing the currency, otherwise it's time to get rid of the Fed and return to sound money.

I think we already have your opinon on the Fed, thanks. What's your proposal for an alternative.

It's not an opinion that the Fed debases the currency and creates the business cycle, those would be facts. My proposal would be to return to the gold standard and allow the free market to operate.

No, facts are objective data. Your assetion that the Fed causese business cycles is an opinion, and a questionable one at that as business cycles existed long before the Fed was dreamed up.

As for a gold standard, right now people would be hording gold and the Fed would be raising interest rates to maintain the standard. Which would have the same effect now as it did in 1931.