Should We Apologize for Slavery?

[William Joyce]

Well, Southern states are rushing to do it. It's all the rage.

Some say this is setting the groundwork for reparations payments.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/04/nc_senate_apolo.php

AP, April 6, 2007

The North Carolina Senate apologized yesterday for the legislature’s role in promoting slavery and Jim Crow laws that denied basic human rights to the state’s black citizens.

Following the lead of lawmakers in neighboring Virginia, the Senate unanimously backed a resolution acknowledging its “profound contrition for the official acts that sanctioned and perpetuated the denial of basic human rights and dignity to fellow humans.”

“This is a way to reflect upon this and express our understanding and our regret for official actions of our state,” said Senate Majority Leader Tony Rand, a Democrat and the bill’s primary sponsor.

Such an apology, Rand added, will help us “to try to be better children of God and better representatives of all the people of this state.”

Slavery was a huge mistake, but I wretch when politicians use phrases like "we are better children of God." Doing what's popular at the moment doesn't necessarily make you better in God's eyes. 200 years ago, this idiot would have been saying God's smiling on slavery. How hard is it, really, to "apologize" for something you didn't even do??? You get to bask in the moral warmth but feel no pain. Easy morality.

 

[roomy]

Well, Southern states are rushing to do it. It's all the rage.

Some say this is setting the groundwork for reparations payments.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/04/nc_senate_apolo.php

What do you think?

 

[Annie]

Well, Southern states are rushing to do it. It's all the rage.

Some say this is setting the groundwork for reparations payments.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/04/nc_senate_apolo.php

My 'family' did not come to the states til 1898, they were starving back home. I think they would have been happier if UK had declared them slaves and let them eat.

 

[roomy]

My 'family' did not come to the states til 1898, they were starving back home. I think they would have been happier if UK had declared them slaves and let them eat.

You can come back and be my slave.

 

[Annie]

You can come back and be my slave.

No thanks, enjoying being held hostage by my family and some 11-14 year olds.

I am considering a visit to UK in the next couple years. If were still in contact, I might meet ya for a pint.

 

[Gunny]

Well, Southern states are rushing to do it. It's all the rage.

Some say this is setting the groundwork for reparations payments.

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/04/nc_senate_apolo.php

AP, April 6, 2007

The North Carolina Senate apologized yesterday for the legislature’s role in promoting slavery and Jim Crow laws that denied basic human rights to the state’s black citizens.

Following the lead of lawmakers in neighboring Virginia, the Senate unanimously backed a resolution acknowledging its “profound contrition for the official acts that sanctioned and perpetuated the denial of basic human rights and dignity to fellow humans.”

“This is a way to reflect upon this and express our understanding and our regret for official actions of our state,” said Senate Majority Leader Tony Rand, a Democrat and the bill’s primary sponsor.

Such an apology, Rand added, will help us “to try to be better children of God and better representatives of all the people of this state.”

Slavery was a huge mistake, but I wretch when politicians use phrases like "we are better children of God." Doing what's popular at the moment doesn't necessarily make you better in God's eyes. 200 years ago, this idiot would have been saying God's smiling on slavery. How hard is it, really, to "apologize" for something you didn't even do??? You get to bask in the moral warmth but feel no pain. Easy morality.

I refuse to apologize for, or be held accountable for something that happened prior to any current living human being's existence, that I did not participate in, and/or was not around to make any decision that would place responsibility upon me.

 

[maineman]

there is that old debate about the validity of past decisions of governments... do we go with pact sunt servanda or rebus sic stantibus which translates roughly from the latin as "the shitty decsions of the past live on" versus "all bets are off". If one hold the former to be the applicable international legal standard, then it is not YOU - Gunny - who is apologizing for something that, clearly, you had no part in, but rather your government whose continuity survives and, thus, is still responsible for the decisions made by its predecessors.

 

[pegwinn]

there is that old debate about the validity of past decisions of governments... do we go with pact sunt servanda or rebus sic stantibus which translates roughly from the latin as "the shitty decsions of the past live on" versus "all bets are off". If one hold the former to be the applicable international legal standard, then it is not YOU - Gunny - who is apologizing for something that, clearly, you had no part in, but rather your government whose continuity survives and, thus, is still responsible for the decisions made by its predecessors.

Nah. It's all bets are off. You (and this includes the discorporate .gov) cannot be held to account for the sins of the fathers. Now, if you can produce a single living person who has a legitimate beef..... Say an Indian forced off his land and onto a shithole, I mean reservation.... Or a black man who was a slave....... or a woman who was denied the right to vote........ or the ever popular etc etc and etc......

In the latin I think it is ullshitbay.

 

[maineman]

Nah. It's all bets are off. You (and this includes the discorporate .gov) cannot be held to account for the sins of the fathers. Now, if you can produce a single living person who has a legitimate beef..... Say an Indian forced off his land and onto a shithole, I mean reservation.... Or a black man who was a slave....... or a woman who was denied the right to vote........ or the ever popular etc etc and etc......

In the latin I think it is ullshitbay.

then you clearly ascribe to the rebus sic stantibus point of view. You need to realize that not all international legal scholars share your opinion.

 

[Gunny]

there is that old debate about the validity of past decisions of governments... do we go with pact sunt servanda or rebus sic stantibus which translates roughly from the latin as "the shitty decsions of the past live on" versus "all bets are off". If one hold the former to be the applicable international legal standard, then it is not YOU - Gunny - who is apologizing for something that, clearly, you had no part in, but rather your government whose continuity survives and, thus, is still responsible for the decisions made by its predecessors.

At the government/legal level, I'm not going to disagree with your assessment; whether or not I agree with the principle.

At the personal level, whites have been expected to be apologetic and feel guilty since the 70s, at least. It is that which I addressed.

As far as the government goes, The 13th Amendment was ratified and signed into law in 1865; which, corrected the inequality in the law. While it is true that prior to that, slavery was legal, the government itself did not own slaves. Slaves were owned at the personal level.

I just don't see that a century and a half later that an apology is either required, nor even realy desired. The TRUE underlying desire is to get states and/or the Federal government to admit liability so those that have made a livng off of what happened to their ancestors at least 5 times removed can squeeze some more money out of it.

 

[Paul Revere]

No we should not apologize for slavery or the holocaust. We should denounce both and work to stop both in our time. Both are happening now in Israel.

 

[Gunny]

No we should not apologize for slavery or the holocaust. We should denounce both and work to stop both in our time. Both are happening now in Israel.

Where would you draw the line sticking our noses in everyone else's business?

Either we police the world or we don't. This pick-n-choose shit is bullshit, IMO, and there's a REAL old saying that comes to mind first here ... people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

We've got some SERIOUS issues here at home to address befoer we need to be presuming to tell others how to get their houses in order.

 

[Ninja]

No we should not apologize for slavery or the holocaust. We should denounce both and work to stop both in our time. Both are happening now in Israel.

When the Israelis kill 6,000,000 so-called "Palestinians" we'll talk.

 

[Gunny]

When the Israelis kill 6,000,000 so-called "Palestinians" we'll talk.

Y'know, the fact is, we allowed the Holocaust to happen by our indifference and religious bigotry. In all fairness to the argument, we have carried that anchor around our necks for the past 60 years, and every time someone says something against Jews or Israel, the anchor is given a tug to remind us.

It isn't about after-the-fact guilt, IMO. It's "Did we learn our lesson from our mistake?" IMO, we have not.

 

[no1tovote4]

I would first ask, how would it hurt us to apologize?

Then I would ask, would it help us at all if we did?

Lastly I would ask, was it my responsibility or do I contain any responsibility for the past decisions of a representative government?

 

[Shattered]

I would first ask, how would it hurt us to apologize?

Then I would ask, would it help us at all if we did?

Lastly I would ask, was it my responsibility or do I contain any responsibility for the past decisions of a representative government?

Ooooh!

**sneaks in**

Hi, No1!!

**sneaks out**

 

[no1tovote4]

Ooooh!

**sneaks in**

Hi, No1!!

**sneaks out**

Whatup, Shattered?! Long time no see!

 

[Shattered]

Whatup, Shattered?! Long time no see!

Nuffin. Time for bed, tho. Night!

 

[Gunny]

I would first ask, how would it hurt us to apologize?

Then I would ask, would it help us at all if we did?

Lastly I would ask, was it my responsibility or do I contain any responsibility for the past decisions of a representative government?

In the legal aspect of affixing liability, yes it hurts "us," the taxpayers. It opens the door for reparations lawsuits. So far they have failed, but IMO it only takes setting the legal precedent of affixing liability for that to change.

I don't see that it helps us at all for people who have never owned slaves to apologize to people who were never slaves for the institution of slavery being legal, not just here, but all over the world ove a decade and a half ago.

Since the law was amended a decade and a half ago, no current representative in our government can be held responsible for laws that existed long before they were born.

 

[no1tovote4]

In the legal aspect of affixing liability, yes it hurts "us," the taxpayers. It opens the door for reparations lawsuits. So far they have failed, but IMO it only takes setting the legal precedent of affixing liability for that to change.

I don't see that it helps us at all for people who have never owned slaves to apologize to people who were never slaves for the institution of slavery being legal, not just here, but all over the world ove a decade and a half ago.

Since the law was amended a decade and a half ago, no current representative in our government can be held responsible for laws that existed long before they were born.

And there you have a reasonable view of whether we should offer apologies. Shoot my family wasn't even in this nation at the time of slavery, at least one side wasn't. The other lived in a State where slavery was always illegal and participated in the escape of many slaves. Should they too have to apologize for the legality of the time in other places?

And current government never had any legal slavery or support of such an activity to their record. Should the government way back then have apologized, probably. Now? I don't believe that they should.