Should Turkey be allowed to join the EU?

[Seraph]

Obama has just giving his backing for Turkey to join the EU, but at the same time the French President, Sarkozy, says no way and he claims most Europeans wouldn't want it either.

What do you think?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Obama has just giving his backing for Turkey to join the EU, but at the same time the French President, Sarkozy, says no way and he claims most Europeans wouldn't want it either.

What do you think?

A discussion about Turkey's position is timely, in the light of President Obama's visit, and how the visit will describe the Presidents' foreign policy abilities.

The G20 was a terrible disappointment, as President Obama did not get a commitment of 2% of EU GDP for his stimulus plan and neither did he get the commitiment for fighting troops in Afghanistan.
Barack Obama fails to win Nato troops he wants for Afghanistan - Times Online
Summiteers OK big loans, no econ rescue stimulus
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/world/europe/26czech.html?_r=1


Turkey becomes critical. Turkey is a NATO member, even if it has been blocked from joining the EU. It is doing fairly well in the current crisis, as it has been able to be a major trade partner with Russia. It has a capable military, and could pressure Iran, and can play a role in the Caucasus.

We should watch carefully, and hope that the President is more facile in his dealings with Turkey than he was with Europe. Any increased dealings between the US and Turkey would be a warning to Germany, which fears immigration, and the rest of the EU, and could block the plans of Russia, as well.

Turkey could do without EU membership if talks with the US go well.

Watch, and wish our President success.

 

[ekrem]

Obama has just giving his backing for Turkey to join the EU, but at the same time the French President, Sarkozy, says no way and he claims most Europeans wouldn't want it either.

What do you think?

A discussion about Turkey's position is timely, in the light of President Obama's visit, and how the visit will describe the Presidents' foreign policy abilities.

The G20 was a terrible disappointment, as President Obama did not get a commitment of 2% of EU GDP for his stimulus plan and neither did he get the commitiment for fighting troops in Afghanistan.
Barack Obama fails to win Nato troops he wants for Afghanistan - Times Online
Summiteers OK big loans, no econ rescue stimulus
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/world/europe/26czech.html?_r=1


Turkey becomes critical. Turkey is a NATO member, even if it has been blocked from joining the EU. It is doing fairly well in the current crisis, as it has been able to be a major trade partner with Russia. It has a capable military, and could pressure Iran, and can play a role in the Caucasus.

We should watch carefully, and hope that the President is more facile in his dealings with Turkey than he was with Europe. Any increased dealings between the US and Turkey would be a warning to Germany, which fears immigration, and the rest of the EU, and could block the plans of Russia, as well.

Turkey could do without EU membership if talks with the US go well.

Watch, and wish our President success.

Obama started the visit with the visit of the Ataturk Mausoleum.
After that he visited Cankaya, which is the residence of the state president Gul.
After that Obama went to Turkish Parliament, where he first seperately met with Opposition party leaders, and then held a speech at Turkish Parliament in front of Turkish parliamentarians which was televsion-broadcasted live.
After that he went to the Prime Ministry where he met Erdogan.

About 30 minutes ago Air Force One headed from Esenboga Airport in Ankara to Ataturk Airport in Istanbul, where Obama will continue his program until tomorrow's evening.


Some pictures.
Obama in Turkish Parliament:

All 4-star generals of the branches of the Army attended also parliament, first since 21 months, to listen to Obama:

Obama with parliamentary speaker Toptan

Obama with opposition party leaders:

Obama at the Prime ministry:

Obama at the state presidency:

Obama at the Ataturk Mausoleum

Tomorrow will follow pictures from Istanbul scenery. He will e.g. visit Sultan Ahmet mosque, just like pope Benedict did.

 

[ekrem]

Obama just arrived at Ataturk airport in Istanbul.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Obama just arrived at Ataturk airport in Istanbul.

I would love know what the Turkish editorials are saying.

Do you have access to same?

 

[ekrem]

@politicalchic
Will keep you update in another post later.

Some pictures from Obama in Istanbul:

 

[roomy]

I say no.

 

[mightypeon]

From the pov of the US it is certainly yes.

Military, politically and economically, the Republic of Turkey has to offer a lot.
Turkey has a capable military experienced in counter insurrections, its economy is fairly solid, and its trade value with Russia or Iran would give another way to increase pressure on both countries.
However, the USA may greatly underestimate how independent minded the Turkish people and the Turkish gouverment may be.
Contrary to Poland or the Baltic States (members of the EU where the USA has more influence than the "core EU" has), Turkey is not afflicted with permament violent Russophobia. Also, the Turkish views on Israel or Kosovo (Turkey is one of the states that is against giving ethnic minorities their own states) do not coincide with the US views at all.
For the US, the admission of Turkey could mean the creation of another "fraction" in the EU. Currently, we have "Core Europe" driven by France and Germany who ultimatly aspire to turn the EU into the United States of Europe. Spain and Portugal tend to support this endeavour, all of them favour peacefull relations with Russia. There is also the "New Europe" fraction, which is hellbent on everything that pisses of Russia, it consists of Poland, the Baltic States, Slovakia and others, and enjoys a lot of US support.

Turkey could become somewhat of a regional leader of the Balkan states, since some of them are muslim, and Turkey has a history of influencing the area.
Concering the influence game in the Balkan, Turkeys main antagonist will be Germany (well, it was Germany that came up with the "lets break up Jugoslavia into easily manipulatable parts thing), a development that may further weaken the Core EU fraction.

Considering cultural and Emigration questions:

I live in Berlin (we have some 350.000 Turkish people) and I did visit Istanbul.
Istanbul was FAR more European and in general "likeable" (for me that is) than the "Turkish areas" of Berlin. Of course, the is propably different in areas like Erserum or Trabzon in the anatolian hinterland.

So, to sum it up, if I would be American it would be Yes, as a German I am a lot less secure since the admission of turkey may further weaken the Core EU and further increase the factions competing for Balkan influence.


P.S. Given the subject of Balkan influence, I am with Bismarck in saying "The Balkan is not worth the Bones of a single Pommeranian grenadier".
I belief the reason for German adventurism was that they couldnt expand anywhere else.

 

[ZDC]

Well, first of all I'd like to say that racism has nothing to do with my position. It has to be said.
Turkey is a great country but there're only 3% of its territory in Europe. Culturally, even if Turkey is a democracy, we're different. This is not a bad thing in itself but to make a king of gathering as EU is, we must have many things in common, you know. At least, we don't want to have frontiers with Iraq.

I'm sure we can have many exchanges with Turkey without including it in European Union.

 

[editec]

I really am not conversant enough with the EU or Turkey to say whether or not they ought to get into bed.

But Turkey is an important nation to the Western world since it is (or at least was) one of the few Islamic nations which is secular.

Turkey seeks to be a modern secular democracy.

We ought to encourage that.

 

[ZDC]

I totally agree with you: Turkey is an important nation.
But this is not the only issue.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

It seems as it stands now it just looks so problematic. It would kinda fuck up the power balance of the EU as it is, 70 million people, 5 million already live in the EU, though, and I dunno. It already looks like the EU overstretched in the last enlargement round. But most of all, Turkey's, as awesome as it is, is still a developing country... It's GDP per capita (PPP) is not much different than, say, Costa Rica's! (Granted, Bulgaria and Romania are about the same, but they have less than half the population of Turkey). And the EU already looks pretty embattled with this crisis and all that. It should probably want to really consolidate before adding another HUGE chunk of people and land in. Maybe once it does Turkey won't even want to join.

But that's all in the short term. Because it's still a developing country, it's growing faster and will grow faster and most likely catch up in the medium term. Speaking in the long-term, if democracy stands and growth continues and no tragedies start happening, there's probably little to block eventual Turkish ascension, though I still think we might be at least some 15 years early for that.

 

[Mr. President]

No