Should the United States Support International Democritization?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"Cleveland tried to reverse the mistakes in Hawaii, but failed to do so."
Wrong.

In his second term he withdrew the treaty of annexation and asked for Congressional help in December of '93 in finding some way to restore the queen to power in a manner "consistent with American honor, integrity and morality."

That is a quote from his 'Special Message to Congress.'

And he stood firm.

BTW, Cleveland is from my state.

US rule of the Philippines began in 1905, and would have ended earlier than '46 had it not been for the Japanese invasion.

The inconsequential nature of your argument is due to equating these minor events to American influence on world history from Wilson to Bush.

Overall you fail to observe the axiom "let not the good be the enemy of the perfect."

Congratulations, Cleveland may have been our best President of all time. But he did fail. William McKinley reversed his course and annexed Hawaii.

The Philippine-American war began in 1899, that's the war where we fought the people of the Philippines for the right to rule their land. The war where we became an imperial power in other words. You can say we might have been out of there earlier, but that's speculation. The fact is that we never should have been there in the first place.

That axiom has no basis in this discussion. Your claim is that we've never "asked" for any land other than that we needed to bury our soldiers, and that has been proven false. Now you're trying to denounce these historical episodes as "minor."

Certainly 'minor' is appropriate in that you are in error about Cleveland's withdrawl of the treaty of annexation of Hawaii, and 'minor' in comparison to two world wars.

Should you claim otherwise, your reasoning ability is strongly to be questioned.

I didn't say that Cleveland withdrew anything. He consistently opposed the annexation of Hawaii, and when McKinley did annex Hawaii Cleveland stated that he was "ashamed of the whole affair." Yes, the war between the Philippines and the U.S. was small compared to the world wars, but it was still an act of tyranny and imperialism on the part of the U.S. and proves that you and Colin Powell are both incorrect in your assertion that we've only ever "asked" for land to bury our soldiers. However, I do not see engaging in tyranny and imperialism as minor.

 

[Bfgrn]

He was incorrect. We didn't fight Nazi Germany out of some great and noble calling. We fought because we saw them as a threat to our security. And how are we some great anti-colonial power? The only anti-colonial wars were fought were to expand our own colonial claims.

Actually, we declared war on Japan on Dec. 8, 1941, one day after after the attack at Pearl Harbor...on Dec 11, Germany and Italy then declared war on the United States

 

[Polk]

He was incorrect. We didn't fight Nazi Germany out of some great and noble calling. We fought because we saw them as a threat to our security. And how are we some great anti-colonial power? The only anti-colonial wars were fought were to expand our own colonial claims.

Actually, we declared war on Japan on Dec. 8, 1941, one day after after the attack at Pearl Harbor...on Dec 11, Germany and Italy then declared war on the United States

Yes, I know the Germans declared war on us. That's not really the point though. We were actively engaged in the conflict before war was ever declared.

 

[Xenophon]

One aspect of American Exceptionalism has been support for democritization and human rights throughout the world.

Our President has stepped away from this view: "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism."

But it seems that other Western leaders agree with the President, and it seems to coincide with a view that, ultimately, Afghanistan may be more authoritarian than democratic.

Here is an interesting, short, article from Eurasianet, about upcoming elections in Central Asia.

"The quiet international response to Tajikistan’s electoral process is prompting some to suggest the United States and the European Union are growing fatigued with democratization in Central Asia.

... a western diplomat said on condition of anonymity. "Why spend money on an electoral process that is pre-determined? In essence, assisting in pre-election efforts now with the close collaboration of the CEC would be tantamount to aligning oneself with the regime," the diplomat said. And beyond the money issue, the deteriorating security situation in Afghanistan is prompting foreign officials and observers to "prefer a stable, rather than a democratic Central Asia," the diplomat suggested."

EurasiaNet Civil Society - Tajikistan: Is the West Showing Signs of Democratization Fatigue?

NO.

We should mind our own damn business.